Hearthpwn

Quote from mDemisha >>

Ain't you guys rage when you read this from Dean ayala?

Q: So is Blade Furry going to stay a 4 mana card? Because it seems to me if you're going to cater to niche decks with these types of cards (Ferryman, Purify), it seems reasonable to print a board clear that caters to control rogue decks.
A: We don't have any plans to change Blade Flurry, I would be quite surprised if it ever changed. The future of Rogue is likely to include very weak AoE or life gain and very strong single target removal and card draw.

Seems okay:

Quote from mDemisha >>

Ain't you guys rage when you read this from Dean ayala?

Q: So is Blade Furry going to stay a 4 mana card? Because it seems to me if you're going to cater to niche decks with these types of cards (Ferryman, Purify), it seems reasonable to print a board clear that caters to control rogue decks.
A: We don't have any plans to change Blade Flurry, I would be quite surprised if it ever changed. The future of Rogue is likely to include very weak AoE or life gain and very strong single target removal and card draw.

• Card draw : I often hear that Rogue draw a lot ... I don't think it's true. Rogue relies only on Gadgetzan Auctioneer (a neutral card) to draw, and absolutely needs tons of cheap spells (often dead draws) to fonction. Warlock and Warrior have a far better card draw IMHO, and I would say only Hunter is really in a worse position.
• Minions : Well, Rogue minions are among the weakest (bodies and effects) in the game. I'd say only Mage has weaker minions.
• Removals : I don't think Rogue has more removals than Mage or Warrior, or even Shaman. Rogue is in a good state here, but not the best.
• Survivability : Rogue is the worst class for the survivability part. There is only Hunter with as few survivability, but they don't care since Hunter tries to win fast.
• AoE : No good AoE for Rogue, the other bad class on this point is Hunter, but I think Unleash the Hounds is stronger than Fan of Knives.
• Burst : Rogue can deliver a big burst thanks to Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Leeroy Jenkins or Malygos (all neutral cards ...). But once again, classes like Warrior, Mage, Druid (that has a stronger Malygos deck) Shaman and even Hunter can burst as much as Rogue do.
• Weapons : absolutely no good weapon for Rogue, no weapon synergy whatsoever (wtf is that hero power ? No synergy !) while Shaman, Warrior and Hunter get good weapons/synergies.
• Cancer : well, when is the last time Rogue dominated the ladder with a cancer deck ? I mean, an ultra-aggro-face deck like Face Shaman, Face Hunter, Eboladin, Pirate Warrior ? Even aggro Druid and Mage are stronger. That's a good thing actually.
• Tempo : once again a term often used to speak about Rogue, thanks to Backstab, SI:7 Agent, Eviscerate and Sap ... and that's all. No other tempo card, and you can see they are all from the Classic set. But yes Rogue can deliver good tempo, but has not the minions to push for a tempo deck (meanwhile, Shaman, Mage, Paladin, Warrior and Hunter are having fun).
• Decks : Rogue can't play control, we all know that. Aggro is bad, midrange is bad. We are left with combo decks for ... forever actually. And even then, we have decks like Patron Warrior, Malygos Druid or maybe Freeze Mage that are stronger.
• Tag decks : and by this I mean "Decks with a particular tag", like Beast Druid or Dragon Priest. Well, for Rogue, no Beast synergy, no Dragon synergy, no Murloc synergy, and less Pirate synergy than Warrior. Too bad.
• Strong legendaries : hey Edwin VanCleef, you must feel alone here.
• Class identity : stealing random cards ? Priest do it better. Stealth ? Not enough cards, only shitty cards anyway. Combo ? Weak mechanics. Aaaand that's all.

Ok, I'm still looking for other points, maybe you can help me. But for what I've said, you can see that Rogue has NO identity. According to Team 5, they cannot get AoE or life gain because it's not their identity. But there is NOTHING a Rogue does better than any other class. Card draw ? Makes Warlock laugh. Single target removal ? Warrior, Shaman and Mage please.

While typing this it looks like Hunter is in a bad state too. I would agree, except that Hunter has some identity : Beast synergy, Deathrattle synergy, and Face Synergy. It's not that good anyway.

Quote from Kinxill >>

Quote from KKeegan >>

Card draw : I often hear that Rogue draw a lot ... I don't think it's true. Rogue relies only on Gadgetzan Auctioneer (a neutral card) to draw, and absolutely needs tons of cheap spells (often dead draws) to fonction. Warlock and Warrior have a far better card draw IMHO, and I would say only Hunter is really in a worse position.

 Pssst! Hey. Do you wanna buy a Sprint ?

Quote from Kinxill >>

Quote from KKeegan >>

You mean, a card that forces you to play 2X Preparation (a dead draw) to make you lose tempo anyway ?
Yes that may be why Sprint is played in every Rogue deck ATM, even non Miracle ones. Oh wait ..!
It saw play only for a few months after Gadgetzan Auctioneer nerf, because Rogue literally had NO other option. But people realized quickly than even a nerfed Gadgetzan Auctioneer (that is so strong it is played in every other class ! Oh wait ...) is better than Sprint.

 

 Sprint doesn't force you to anything, it's just a card draw source like another. You mention Auctioneer but he can't be played before turn 6 (he's often at turn 7/8), and Auctioneer is quite more restrictive on deck building than a Sprint.

There is also a couple of drawing source Rogue plays often : Loot Hoarder, Azuke Drake, Thalnos and FoK, which are played by us since beta. And hey, I'll do you the favor not to mention any form of card generation, because card class stealing is fundamentally terrible because it's not meant for Miracle, right ?

So, if I had to mention a problem about Rogue class, it would CERTAINLY not be card draw. Regardless of the deck I'm playing, my hand size don't often goes under 3 cards during the course of the game.

"Oh, rogue is so good in card draw."

90% of drawing cards in rogue are from neutral sources.

:FACEPALM:

Im not a Rogue main, guys, but i support you anyway.

I know achieving the perfect balance is impossible, there will always be the strongest and the weakest class. But thats one thing, and different thing is to have a superOP class like Shaman, and a crap class like Rogue, the difference is too abysmal.

This needs to be fixed. They basically said fuck rouge, they should just go and play miracle for the 15 thousandth time or suffer from a subpar "fun" decks (crazy rng swings is not what i consider fun). NO AOE NO HEALING NO TAUNT= NO NEW DECKS 

While I don't play much Rogue, I have to agree. Same old inconsistent stuff that looks cool when you manage to pull it off. This is just not good. And it shows how old blade flurry did not have to get nerfed at all.

rouge needs purify they will be unstopple if they get it. 

Fix rogue! 

Again.

If they do not give us an AoE, WE RIOT.

Quote from Nawasty >>

I mean one other problem with Team 5's rogue philosophy is that they keep saying "healing/ taunts aren't part of Rogue philosophy". and yet.... they keep printing control oriented cards:

 

Here's my contribution

What will happen if 80% of the ladder or even the whole server won't play rogue for this expansion? If that will make Blizzard understands, I'll fcking do it. #FIXROGUE !!

And I'm not even rogue main but this is too much. Even in the same faction while druids and shamans got broken-good tiered cards, rogues got ... well u know

Unfortunately for them, that kind of disappointment is what tends to make people stop playing something. When you're angry, that's good. When you're angry but have hope, it's ok. When someone is not doing it ok, but you know he listens and cares, that's fine too, because you know things will eventually click. 

But when you're disappointed too much, you irreversibly start to don't give a fuck, and no thing can fix that. 

And this stuff with the reveal tonight really makes some people disappointed. There are people who were genuinely waiting for this, and they just fuck up. Imagine a disabled 12 year old kid who loves the game and waits for the reveal like it's christmas eve. And nothing happens. No reveal, no explanation, no nothing. Personally, i don't give a fuck about the reveal, but this means a world to someone. Leaves a really bad taste in mouth.

Fortunately, the Shaman class, which is struggling in today's meta, is not getting so much attention in this expansion, so Rogue can continue to rule the ladder.

I mean, Shaku, the Collector is strictly superior to White Eyes,Gadgetzan Ferryman is far better than Jinyu Waterspeaker, Devolve is nothing special and Jade Claws is not a weapon. Meanwhile Rogue is getting OP combo spells like Jade Shuriken and overstatted minions like Jade Swarmer.

Mark my word, Rogue is OP and will stay that way thanks to Team 5's competence !

I actually think that Jade Rogue might be decent, and even if it's not Rogue still got Counterfeit Coin which is decent and Jade Shuriken which is good.
Also it's hard to design good Rogue cards without pushing Miracle Rogue over the top, which kind of limits their design space. (stuff like Ferryman is still not okay though, the game won't improve for anyone because of that card)

It looks great on paper, we shall see if it passes the "live through turn 5 against zoo and pirate warrior" test.