Card generation upsets a lot of players, but also allows for more game variety and situational play.
Possible fix: Why not make generated cards known to both players?
The player generating cards can still respond flexibly to the game state, but her or his opponent will have a much better idea of what to expect and can plan and play accordingly.
Card generation upsets a lot of players, but also allows for more game variety and situational play.
Possible fix: Why not make generated cards known to both players?
The player generating cards can still respond flexibly to the game state, but her or his opponent will have a much better idea of what to expect and can plan and play accordingly.
kind of okay with the idea... similar to TCGs wherein you have to prove / show to your opponent that the card you tutored is indeed the one mentioned in the card played
"Search your library / deck for X card and show it to your opponent, afterwards, shuffle the deck"
somewhat gives you an idea that a said card is in hand and gives you a chance to play around it (as you said) but I don't think blizz will implement such mechanics...
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
Card generation upsets a lot of players, but also allows for more game variety and situational play.
Possible fix: Why not make generated cards known to both players?
The player generating cards can still respond flexibly to the game state, but her or his opponent will have a much better idea of what to expect and can plan and play accordingly.
kind of okay with the idea... similar to TCGs wherein you have to prove / show to your opponent that the card you tutored is indeed the one mentioned in the card played
"Search your library / deck for X card and show it to your opponent, afterwards, shuffle the deck"
somewhat gives you an idea that a said card is in hand and gives you a chance to play around it (as you said) but I don't think blizz will implement such mechanics...
That mechanic exists because of the limitations of cardboard TCGs, where without showing the card you tutor, you could potentially cheat. It's not a useful reference, as Hearthstone broke through these limitations. I don't see a good reason to show the discovered cards, information game is a pretty fun one.
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
I think they could shrink the discover pools a little bit. (i.e. Renew could discover a HOLY spell, instead of a spell) But I don't think revealing what you got is the answer.
I think they could shrink the discover pools a little bit. (i.e. Renew could discover a HOLY spell, instead of a spell) But I don't think revealing what you got is the answer.
I think they could shrink the discover pools a little bit. (i.e. Renew could discover a HOLY spell, instead of a spell) But I don't think revealing what you got is the answer.
That makes most spells even better
Not really, and the complaint is that discover isn't predictable enough. Now it would be.
I mean, you should be aware of what the opponent is doing with it's cards and keep an eye on them. Them not playing them and keeping on their hands gives you HUGE hints of what the card is. Either is garbage, or is something for an specific scenario. Then you can test scenarios.
What you're implying would kill the fun of this game. Let's face it, RNG is fun. Of course it isn't when it's bad for you lol, but that's the deal we have to accept for playing Hearthstone.
It‘s a nice idea. But it should be shown just once just like in magic, where you prove you tutored the right card. I know it‘s not possible to cheat like in TCG but in these games it can be a huge factor to know whats in your opponents hand. But like everyone said, this will never get implemented. Still a nice and cool idea :)
edit: it wouldn‘t be that big of a deal now that i think of it. Control matches would be less frustrating because of a little more predictability and in any other case the discovered card gets played in the same or the next 1-2 turns anyway. It‘s the discovered board-clear which sits in the hand for a long time that feels frustrating
It doesn't make any kind of sense ... Why "discriminate" the generated cards compared to those drawn for example? There is no absolute knowledge about what your opponent's deck might be even though it might be predictable ... So all cards drawn, kipped, generated have the same role with the same percentage of predictability. I could understand what do you mean, but really if you think a bit this has no logic..it’s just sensation, feeling.
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
Yeah Discover was fun during League of Explorers or however that adventure that added it was called exactly. By the time of Un'goro a year and a bit later it was very old. Now endless card generation is so old it coughs out dust when it speaks.
I am so tired of having to fend off infinite solutions, especially from priests. If you ask me I'd stop printing Discover cards and then in two years we can finally be free of this menace. So yeah pretty much anything that hurts that annoying playstyle is good in my book. This would at least warn us what to watch out for, fourth Hysteria? Grrr, ok, I guess if I play this it won't be so bad... you get the idea. Or maybe add a further limitation that each card can only be Discovered or randomly generated once per game, so you know 3 is the max you will ever face in one match, well unless they use more obvious duplication methods like Felosophy, Echo, etc.
I believe add a random card of X type need only one fix - don't let them generate legendary cards. Spell mages won't get 3 primes per game, draconic studies will give reasonable value instead of a free wincondition, etc.
I don't think it's necessary. When I see really good players play they quite often narrow down the best options from the discover and play around that. This is why they are better players than me I can't do that, I don't know the cars pools well enough and that's part of the skill, understanding and knowing the game.
I also don't predict opponent's moves as well. I can do it to a degree but not as well or as consistency as the top players. They have a deeper understanding of the game than me and that shoukd benefit them.
All this does is reduce the skill gap really and I don't see a need for that. The worse a player is the more they seem to blame rng and claim things are completely out if their control. They aren't completely out of our control though. You shouldn't know what cards your opponents have, this pretty much just dumb the game down.
It would benefit me personally quite a lot but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
On standard ladder, maybe.
Good point. Wild is very different. Standard is the preeminent and most popular constructed format, so one would expect game changes to focus on their effect there first. And I don't think this change would break Wild.
I mean, you should be aware of what the opponent is doing with it's cards and keep an eye on them. Them not playing them and keeping on their hands gives you HUGE hints of what the card is. Either is garbage, or is something for an specific scenario. Then you can test scenarios.
What you're implying would kill the fun of this game. Let's face it, RNG is fun. Of course it isn't when it's bad for you lol, but that's the deal we have to accept for playing Hearthstone.
Not sure how much of the player base is on mobile, but it's probably a significant number.
They still don't have access to deck trackers which makes it very difficult to keep track of cards, especially when, say, a priest pops off with a monster Sethekk turn.
Always seems a bit odd that some players have this massive advantage over others.
Card generation upsets a lot of players, but also allows for more game variety and situational play.
Possible fix: Why not make generated cards known to both players?
The player generating cards can still respond flexibly to the game state, but her or his opponent will have a much better idea of what to expect and can plan and play accordingly.
kind of okay with the idea... similar to TCGs wherein you have to prove / show to your opponent that the card you tutored is indeed the one mentioned in the card played
"Search your library / deck for X card and show it to your opponent, afterwards, shuffle the deck"
somewhat gives you an idea that a said card is in hand and gives you a chance to play around it (as you said) but I don't think blizz will implement such mechanics...
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
That mechanic exists because of the limitations of cardboard TCGs, where without showing the card you tutor, you could potentially cheat. It's not a useful reference, as Hearthstone broke through these limitations. I don't see a good reason to show the discovered cards, information game is a pretty fun one.
In the days of chains discoveries this might not have been that bad.
Drvs already addressed this by removing cards discovering themselves. Which I think was a good compromise.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
I think they could shrink the discover pools a little bit. (i.e. Renew could discover a HOLY spell, instead of a spell) But I don't think revealing what you got is the answer.
That makes most spells even better
Not really, and the complaint is that discover isn't predictable enough. Now it would be.
pfff, no way this is ever going to happen
you'll live and die by rng for whatever thing you believe in's sake and like it, damn it
otherwise, find another game, thank you very much
I mean, you should be aware of what the opponent is doing with it's cards and keep an eye on them. Them not playing them and keeping on their hands gives you HUGE hints of what the card is. Either is garbage, or is something for an specific scenario. Then you can test scenarios.
What you're implying would kill the fun of this game. Let's face it, RNG is fun. Of course it isn't when it's bad for you lol, but that's the deal we have to accept for playing Hearthstone.
But then you know my whole hand thats not fair
It‘s a nice idea. But it should be shown just once just like in magic, where you prove you tutored the right card. I know it‘s not possible to cheat like in TCG but in these games it can be a huge factor to know whats in your opponents hand. But like everyone said, this will never get implemented. Still a nice and cool idea :)
edit: it wouldn‘t be that big of a deal now that i think of it. Control matches would be less frustrating because of a little more predictability and in any other case the discovered card gets played in the same or the next 1-2 turns anyway. It‘s the discovered board-clear which sits in the hand for a long time that feels frustrating
It doesn't make any kind of sense ... Why "discriminate" the generated cards compared to those drawn for example? There is no absolute knowledge about what your opponent's deck might be even though it might be predictable ... So all cards drawn, kipped, generated have the same role with the same percentage of predictability. I could understand what do you mean, but really if you think a bit this has no logic..it’s just sensation, feeling.
On standard ladder, maybe.
Yeah Discover was fun during League of Explorers or however that adventure that added it was called exactly. By the time of Un'goro a year and a bit later it was very old. Now endless card generation is so old it coughs out dust when it speaks.
I am so tired of having to fend off infinite solutions, especially from priests. If you ask me I'd stop printing Discover cards and then in two years we can finally be free of this menace. So yeah pretty much anything that hurts that annoying playstyle is good in my book. This would at least warn us what to watch out for, fourth Hysteria? Grrr, ok, I guess if I play this it won't be so bad... you get the idea. Or maybe add a further limitation that each card can only be Discovered or randomly generated once per game, so you know 3 is the max you will ever face in one match, well unless they use more obvious duplication methods like Felosophy, Echo, etc.
I believe add a random card of X type need only one fix - don't let them generate legendary cards. Spell mages won't get 3 primes per game, draconic studies will give reasonable value instead of a free wincondition, etc.
I don't think it's necessary. When I see really good players play they quite often narrow down the best options from the discover and play around that. This is why they are better players than me I can't do that, I don't know the cars pools well enough and that's part of the skill, understanding and knowing the game.
I also don't predict opponent's moves as well. I can do it to a degree but not as well or as consistency as the top players. They have a deeper understanding of the game than me and that shoukd benefit them.
All this does is reduce the skill gap really and I don't see a need for that. The worse a player is the more they seem to blame rng and claim things are completely out if their control. They aren't completely out of our control though. You shouldn't know what cards your opponents have, this pretty much just dumb the game down.
It would benefit me personally quite a lot but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Good point. Wild is very different. Standard is the preeminent and most popular constructed format, so one would expect game changes to focus on their effect there first. And I don't think this change would break Wild.
Not sure how much of the player base is on mobile, but it's probably a significant number.
They still don't have access to deck trackers which makes it very difficult to keep track of cards, especially when, say, a priest pops off with a monster Sethekk turn.
Always seems a bit odd that some players have this massive advantage over others.