I've been saying since that stupid Doom in the Tomb event last year that Desert Hare needs to summon 2 1/1 1 mana rabbits. That card is literally what encourages evolve shaman since it's a 3 mana that summons 12 mana of minions with evolution mechanics.
So you want to make it a Wolpertinger? But then for 3 mana?
Wolpertinger is a class card. Hare is a neutral card. Blizz clearly didn't intent on Hare being used solely for shamans to dump half a field of 4 mana minions. It seems to have originally been designed around board buffs and discouraging saps and ice traps. Plus 3 mana for 3/3 is completely even in cost to mana, especially with the beast group.
Kobold Stickyfinger is all u need to beat Evolve shaman. It really is that simple. Hard mulligan for it, and stesal the first copy of Boggspine.
Some games you will lose, but you will win at lewast 50% of the games vs Evolve shaman.
I put 2 sticky in a contolr shaman, to get legend, whilre facing 40%!! evolve shamans, and I put 2 stickyfingers in my Galkrond Priest deck, while @ Lwegend rank, where evolve shaman is about 30% of the matchups.
Cards that dont have counters are mote problematic.
Tkatus is the real issue. It can be discovered, copied, and played multiple times in a game. Tbhis literally destoys all slow decks completely.
Does not make sense. Do you know the classic card, the 2/3 with the 1/1 boar. It is not even close to being played. Youcalso have the 1/2 Jelly that keeps duplicating. Not in a single deck... And you suggest that Desert Hare gets nerfed even below that powerlevel? Sounds more like frustration instead of solid arguments.
Does not make sense. Do you know the classic card, the 2/3 with the 1/1 boar. It is not even close to being played. Youcalso have the 1/2 Jelly that keeps duplicating. Not in a single deck... And you suggest that Desert Hare gets nerfed even below that powerlevel? Sounds more like frustration instead of solid arguments.
Desert Hare is a common card and was mostly meant as a pack filler. You're literally defending a pack filler who's only purpose in the nearly 2 years its been in the meta is to pull off broken swing turns when evolve shaman is in the meta.
Razorfen Hunter summons 1 beast 1/1 1 mana for a total of 3/4 stats. Desert Hare summoning 3 beasts with a total of 3/3 stats and 3 mana each. If Razorfen's boar was 3 mana, we'd likely see it played in evolve shaman instead of Sludge Slurper or Tour Guide. Do you even know what is in evolve shaman? It's all token generating minions where the minions generate high mana value tokens. Let's not forget that triggering a sap effect with the boar isn't going to allow you to summon 2 more 3 mana copies of it the next time you play it. Your defense is literally "Well, no one's playing this BASIC card which is nothing like it!"
Oh and let's not forget Blistering Rot since you bring it up! Once again, this summons a 1/2 1 mana token. Not to mention that it is an end of turn effect that is useless if you have the means to evolve NOW. This card was meant for some weird token buff meta.
If we calculate evolves and value each mana at 1/1. Once again, Desert Hare puts 12/12 worth of stats on average down on the field. Razorfen Hunter puts 6/6 stats. Blistering Rot puts 6/6 worth of stats over 2 turns. The hare summoning only 1 mana rabbit tokens would nerf this down to 8/8, which still puts it ahead of the other 2, which is more manageable to beat than 12/12.
No, OP, that's a bad bad OP. Ffs there are SO many weapon counters in this game already. Use them and shut your mouth. Every time a new top deck arises that does NOT mean that it needs a nerf just because you dont like it.
People tend to misunderstand how meta works. In fact we can compare meta to a terrorist organization. Everyone hates their leader, but even if you kill him, nothing will change. Someone new will take his place. If Blizzard kills Evolve Shaman, probably DH will be the next culprit, or maybe Paladin, who knows? Meta has always worked like that (even in the OG Vanilla times). There always are decks that are over- and underperforming and that's just natural, so we have to bear with it.
unless they got the 0 mana ramp (bloom) and 1-2 hoard pillagers after its destroyed before you can even draw sticky
So the 1/1000 chance of both you not drawing a single stickyfinger by turn 5, them drawing both Bogspine and Lightning Bloom, and then them managing to swing twice before you get a stickyfinger?
If everyone needs to start teching in a 5-mana 4/4 to counter a single deck though, this means that this deck is a problem that needs to be addressed...
unless they got the 0 mana ramp (bloom) and 1-2 hoard pillagers after its destroyed before you can even draw sticky
So the 1/1000 chance of both you not drawing a single stickyfinger by turn 5, them drawing both Bogspine and Lightning Bloom, and then them managing to swing twice before you get a stickyfinger?
Cagematch Custodian tutors out the weapon, so the chances of shaman having the weapon and lightning bloom early is pretty damn high by your logic.
The chance of you not drawing a stickyfinger before turn 5 is pretty damn high too. I remember when SoU came out and many of the pros were making hunter highlander decks where every card was single except Hyena Alpha due to its power level. The idea was "Hey, you'll likely draw one of them by the time you need to use your highland cards!" That was quickly dropped since you essentially limited your deck for a chance for both of them to be at the bottom of your deck. It's not exactly the same. If you go first and don't get SF in your hand, it's roughly 7.5-10% chance each turn for the first 6 turns to draw one without any additional card draw.
unless they got the 0 mana ramp (bloom) and 1-2 hoard pillagers after its destroyed before you can even draw sticky
So the 1/1000 chance of both you not drawing a single stickyfinger by turn 5, them drawing both Bogspine and Lightning Bloom, and then them managing to swing twice before you get a stickyfinger?
you guys are getting shaman opponents to transform their board at turn 5? lol dumpster ranks. im getting highrolled by my shaman adversaries on turn 3 and 4 courtesy of bloom. im always like "cool match of HS, the negotiations were short"
Let's be real now, people saying the deck is fine are the ones abusing its power. Nobody likes to get highrolled by evolve shaman and lose by turn 5-6. Saying that double Stickyfinger solves the problem only works fine on paper. If you hard mulligan for it you give up your early game, shaman floods the board and then plays weapon, they attack and evolve the board at least once, meanwhile you can't clear their minions cuz you hard mulliganed for Stickyfinger. Then you only have 2 copies of this tech card in your deck and no way to tutor draw it (unless you play warrior and have ancharr on curve) while shaman players get Custodian on top of just drawing the weapon.
This problematic deck cheats out so much mana, bumping the weapon to 6 mana won't change much since they run double bloom. They like cheating mana so much they even started running Captain Greenskin for extra swings and Parachute Brigand for extra evolves. And while we are at this mana cheat talk, Stickyfinger may be useless if they play the weapon on turn 3 with bloom and already break it on turn 4. If this happens Hoard Pillager becomes a big problem so maybe bumping bogspine to 6 mana AND reducing its attack to 3 (no more Dread Corsair cheat on the same turn) will reduce the deck's overall power.
Custodian was definitely a mistake but there's no good nerf for it. Playing it on turn 2 or 3 or 4 is the same since the weapon comes down starting with turn 5 (unless they have bloom too). I would straight up remove this card, nerfing it doesn't work.
Oh I forgot something. Do you guys know why Tempo Pirate Rogue was one if not the best deck when Rise of Shadows was released? Because they got a really strong weapon: Waggle Pick and they had a way to tutor it: Raiding Party. Do you know what happened? Blizzard nerfed both Raiding Party and Preparation which enabled Party on turn 1.
Kobold Stickyfinger is all u need to beat Evolve shaman. It really is that simple. Hard mulligan for it, and stesal the first copy of Boggspine.
Some games you will lose, but you will win at lewast 50% of the games vs Evolve shaman.
I put 2 sticky in a contolr shaman, to get legend, whilre facing 40%!! evolve shamans, and I put 2 stickyfingers in my Galkrond Priest deck, while @ Lwegend rank, where evolve shaman is about 30% of the matchups.
Cards that dont have counters are mote problematic.
Tkatus is the real issue. It can be discovered, copied, and played multiple times in a game. Tbhis literally destoys all slow decks completely.
I've been saying since that stupid Doom in the Tomb event last year that Desert Hare needs to summon 2 1/1 1 mana rabbits. That card is literally what encourages evolve shaman since it's a 3 mana that summons 12 mana of minions with evolution mechanics.
Hoard Pillager 1/2, hahaha.
So you want to make it a Wolpertinger? But then for 3 mana?
Wolpertinger is a class card. Hare is a neutral card. Blizz clearly didn't intent on Hare being used solely for shamans to dump half a field of 4 mana minions. It seems to have originally been designed around board buffs and discouraging saps and ice traps. Plus 3 mana for 3/3 is completely even in cost to mana, especially with the beast group.
I always hated the rng of evolve decks, and how helpless it can be to play against.
A nerf would be most welcome, evolve shaman is clearly the current meta tyrant.
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Kobold Stickyfinger is all u need to beat Evolve shaman. It really is that simple. Hard mulligan for it, and stesal the first copy of Boggspine.
Some games you will lose, but you will win at lewast 50% of the games vs Evolve shaman.
I put 2 sticky in a contolr shaman, to get legend, whilre facing 40%!! evolve shamans, and I put 2 stickyfingers in my Galkrond Priest deck, while @ Lwegend rank, where evolve shaman is about 30% of the matchups.
Cards that dont have counters are mote problematic.
Tkatus is the real issue. It can be discovered, copied, and played multiple times in a game. Tbhis literally destoys all slow decks completely.
Yeah i also love that. Easiest turn 5 concede vs shaman.
Does not make sense. Do you know the classic card, the 2/3 with the 1/1 boar. It is not even close to being played. Youcalso have the 1/2 Jelly that keeps duplicating. Not in a single deck... And you suggest that Desert Hare gets nerfed even below that powerlevel? Sounds more like frustration instead of solid arguments.
Desert Hare is a common card and was mostly meant as a pack filler. You're literally defending a pack filler who's only purpose in the nearly 2 years its been in the meta is to pull off broken swing turns when evolve shaman is in the meta.
Razorfen Hunter summons 1 beast 1/1 1 mana for a total of 3/4 stats. Desert Hare summoning 3 beasts with a total of 3/3 stats and 3 mana each. If Razorfen's boar was 3 mana, we'd likely see it played in evolve shaman instead of Sludge Slurper or Tour Guide. Do you even know what is in evolve shaman? It's all token generating minions where the minions generate high mana value tokens. Let's not forget that triggering a sap effect with the boar isn't going to allow you to summon 2 more 3 mana copies of it the next time you play it. Your defense is literally "Well, no one's playing this BASIC card which is nothing like it!"
Oh and let's not forget Blistering Rot since you bring it up! Once again, this summons a 1/2 1 mana token. Not to mention that it is an end of turn effect that is useless if you have the means to evolve NOW. This card was meant for some weird token buff meta.
If we calculate evolves and value each mana at 1/1. Once again, Desert Hare puts 12/12 worth of stats on average down on the field. Razorfen Hunter puts 6/6 stats. Blistering Rot puts 6/6 worth of stats over 2 turns. The hare summoning only 1 mana rabbit tokens would nerf this down to 8/8, which still puts it ahead of the other 2, which is more manageable to beat than 12/12.
No, OP, that's a bad bad OP. Ffs there are SO many weapon counters in this game already. Use them and shut your mouth. Every time a new top deck arises that does NOT mean that it needs a nerf just because you dont like it.
Pointless topic, card is ok.
unless they got the 0 mana ramp (bloom) and 1-2 hoard pillagers after its destroyed before you can even draw sticky
So the 1/1000 chance of both you not drawing a single stickyfinger by turn 5, them drawing both Bogspine and Lightning Bloom, and then them managing to swing twice before you get a stickyfinger?
If everyone needs to start teching in a 5-mana 4/4 to counter a single deck though, this means that this deck is a problem that needs to be addressed...
Cagematch Custodian tutors out the weapon, so the chances of shaman having the weapon and lightning bloom early is pretty damn high by your logic.
The chance of you not drawing a stickyfinger before turn 5 is pretty damn high too. I remember when SoU came out and many of the pros were making hunter highlander decks where every card was single except Hyena Alpha due to its power level. The idea was "Hey, you'll likely draw one of them by the time you need to use your highland cards!" That was quickly dropped since you essentially limited your deck for a chance for both of them to be at the bottom of your deck. It's not exactly the same. If you go first and don't get SF in your hand, it's roughly 7.5-10% chance each turn for the first 6 turns to draw one without any additional card draw.
you guys are getting shaman opponents to transform their board at turn 5? lol dumpster ranks. im getting highrolled by my shaman adversaries on turn 3 and 4 courtesy of bloom. im always like "cool match of HS, the negotiations were short"
Let's be real now, people saying the deck is fine are the ones abusing its power. Nobody likes to get highrolled by evolve shaman and lose by turn 5-6. Saying that double Stickyfinger solves the problem only works fine on paper. If you hard mulligan for it you give up your early game, shaman floods the board and then plays weapon, they attack and evolve the board at least once, meanwhile you can't clear their minions cuz you hard mulliganed for Stickyfinger. Then you only have 2 copies of this tech card in your deck and no way to tutor draw it (unless you play warrior and have ancharr on curve) while shaman players get Custodian on top of just drawing the weapon.
This problematic deck cheats out so much mana, bumping the weapon to 6 mana won't change much since they run double bloom. They like cheating mana so much they even started running Captain Greenskin for extra swings and Parachute Brigand for extra evolves. And while we are at this mana cheat talk, Stickyfinger may be useless if they play the weapon on turn 3 with bloom and already break it on turn 4. If this happens Hoard Pillager becomes a big problem so maybe bumping bogspine to 6 mana AND reducing its attack to 3 (no more Dread Corsair cheat on the same turn) will reduce the deck's overall power.
Custodian was definitely a mistake but there's no good nerf for it. Playing it on turn 2 or 3 or 4 is the same since the weapon comes down starting with turn 5 (unless they have bloom too). I would straight up remove this card, nerfing it doesn't work.
Oh I forgot something. Do you guys know why Tempo Pirate Rogue was one if not the best deck when Rise of Shadows was released? Because they got a really strong weapon: Waggle Pick and they had a way to tutor it: Raiding Party. Do you know what happened? Blizzard nerfed both Raiding Party and Preparation which enabled Party on turn 1.
Dude, the tickatus deck is Tier 3!
Stick your suggestions up your