So there is this discussion going basically since forever about Coin working not as intended. I am obviously speaking about it being both a spell and a combo enabler.
After playing vs countless Rogues who always seem to have Coin Miscreant on 2 I think it is time to start the topic again. This has been an issue earlier, granted - before the problem was rather with it being a spell, what contributed to many strategies. But even now we have a solid deck in the game, which abuses this fact - Spell Druid.
The issue will most likely not disappear till we have Rogues and their combos in the game, as well as cards and decks benefiting from cheap spells - both of which are probably gonna stay in the game forever.
Is it time to make Coin not a spell and not a Combo trigger?
So there is this discussion going basically since forever about Coin working not as intended. I am obviously speaking about it being both a spell and a combo enabler.
After playing vs countless Rogues who always seem to have Coin Miscreant on 2 I think it is time to start the topic again. This has been an issue earlier, granted - before the problem was rather with it being a spell, what contributed to many strategies. But even now we have a solid deck in the game, which abuses this fact - Spell Druid.
The issue will most likely not disappear till we have Rogues and their combos in the game, as well as cards and decks benefiting from cheap spells - both of which are probably gonna stay in the game forever.
Is it time to make Coin not a spell and not a Combo trigger?
1 (rogue) maybe 2 (mage with spell sinergy) in 10 classes have good enough compensation to not start the game, all other classes prefer to start everytime.
Even IF the coin is at its best now than ever before...that just means it's finally approaching balance. It's ALWAYS been worse for the entirety of Hearthstone...yes, Rogues have always had ability that it's actually better for them, but that's ONE class compared to 8 (9, now). Even IF the coin is somehow BETTER than going first and having a mana and tempo/potential advantage for 9 turns, that would be completely okay in my eyes, seeing as it has been worse for 5+ years now, so what if it's now slightly better, for one or two classes, or whatever? 100% balanced still, imo.
I'm fine with The Coin being a combo enabler (because every card is), but I've never really liked it being a spell. It doesn't matter much nowadays, but back when Flamewaker and Mana Wyrm were a thing it did annoy me.
coin should stay the way it is. saying it happens to work well for certain decks that benefit from combos or the fact its an extra spell is like complaining aggro decks benefit from going first. why not nerf going first because if you get it while playing a fast deck its an even bigger advantage than with a slow deck right?
Coin nerf ideas: - Make coin give only half a mana - Make coin cost 1 mana - After you use the coin, your turn is over - Change it into a secret that only works on your opponents turn - Put Chad Kroeger's face on the card art
Coin nerf ideas: - Make coin give only half a mana - Make coin cost 1 mana - After you use the coin, your turn is over - Change it into a secret that only works on your opponents turn - Put Chad Kroeger's face on the card art
Young face or current one? Both meme-able but very different KEKW
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
I would actually prefer it being an actual manacrystal you can activate so for example things that affect spells like loatheb or nerubian dont stop you from using it.
Coin nerf ideas: - Make coin give only half a mana - Make coin cost 1 mana - After you use the coin, your turn is over - Change it into a secret that only works on your opponents turn - Put Chad Kroeger's face on the card art
I feel this has been the most constructive response. I would like to add to the list:
- "The Coin": 1 mana; Autocasts at the start of your turn. -1 mana crystals this turn. Add two copies of "The Coin" to your hand.
@Geoff I'm not sure why all the hostility towards your question but the coin is an imperfect answer to try and make up for a fundamental flaw in the way hearthstone is designed. The devs did the best they could and played around with many different versions of how to try to make up for how much worse it was to go second including at one point play testing giving a free 0 Mana 1/1 instead, but the winrate for going first was still way too high. Thus coin and the extra card was the best solution they could come up with that got the closest to 50/50 winrate as they could.
Even in rouge if you really look at and break down win rates, especially at higher ranks, it's still better to go first as a rogue because rogue is a tempo class and the tempo and Mana advantage of going first is still better for rogue than having access to the coin. It simply hurts less to go second as a rogue than it does with the other classes but it is always better in every class to go first. The only exception to this rule (in standard) is perhaps in druid simply because coining out overgrowth a turn earlier can make up for the Mana disadvantage of going second and the coin can be used with kel' but those interactions won't be in standard forever.
Also when to use the coin introduces a lot of skill testing plays that you would miss out on. From Mana cheating in classes that can't usually cant do that such as saving a coin the entire game for a double battle cry shutter (usually a mistake), to the simple interactions it has with triggering secrets, and everything in between are reasons I wouldn't want to lose it.
Coin nerf ideas: - Make coin give only half a mana - Make coin cost 1 mana - After you use the coin, your turn is over - Change it into a secret that only works on your opponents turn - Put Chad Kroeger's face on the card art
Young face or current one? Both meme-able but very different KEKW
Good question. I guess it depends how much of a nerf you need. If “how you remind me” came on whenever you played the coin, consider the card unplayable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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So there is this discussion going basically since forever about Coin working not as intended. I am obviously speaking about it being both a spell and a combo enabler.
After playing vs countless Rogues who always seem to have Coin Miscreant on 2 I think it is time to start the topic again. This has been an issue earlier, granted - before the problem was rather with it being a spell, what contributed to many strategies. But even now we have a solid deck in the game, which abuses this fact - Spell Druid.
The issue will most likely not disappear till we have Rogues and their combos in the game, as well as cards and decks benefiting from cheap spells - both of which are probably gonna stay in the game forever.
Is it time to make Coin not a spell and not a Combo trigger?
Please log out.
Always expect the unexpectable!
Geoff's daily whining thread?
1 (rogue) maybe 2 (mage with spell sinergy) in 10 classes have good enough compensation to not start the game, all other classes prefer to start everytime.
Yes, sure, coin need to be nerfed. >_>
Even IF the coin is at its best now than ever before...that just means it's finally approaching balance. It's ALWAYS been worse for the entirety of Hearthstone...yes, Rogues have always had ability that it's actually better for them, but that's ONE class compared to 8 (9, now). Even IF the coin is somehow BETTER than going first and having a mana and tempo/potential advantage for 9 turns, that would be completely okay in my eyes, seeing as it has been worse for 5+ years now, so what if it's now slightly better, for one or two classes, or whatever? 100% balanced still, imo.
OP is definitely a troll!
" In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
Geoff, you are a buffoon
I'm fine with The Coin being a combo enabler (because every card is), but I've never really liked it being a spell. It doesn't matter much nowadays, but back when Flamewaker and Mana Wyrm were a thing it did annoy me.
coin should stay the way it is. saying it happens to work well for certain decks that benefit from combos or the fact its an extra spell is like complaining aggro decks benefit from going first. why not nerf going first because if you get it while playing a fast deck its an even bigger advantage than with a slow deck right?
That's Incredible!
Geoff. Buddy. Step away from the keyboard before you say something you'll regret.
Coin nerf ideas:
- Make coin give only half a mana
- Make coin cost 1 mana
- After you use the coin, your turn is over
- Change it into a secret that only works on your opponents turn
- Put Chad Kroeger's face on the card art
Young face or current one? Both meme-able but very different KEKW
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
I would actually prefer it being an actual manacrystal you can activate so for example things that affect spells like loatheb or nerubian dont stop you from using it.
I think if it was ever going to be changed, it would have been while Open the Waygate was still in standard.
If you're a quest mage going second, boom! free, instant +1 quest counter
I feel this has been the most constructive response. I would like to add to the list:
- "The Coin": 1 mana; Autocasts at the start of your turn. -1 mana crystals this turn. Add two copies of "The Coin" to your hand.
The coin is supposed to make up for the disadvantage of going second, since you don't have initiative on board. It's supposed to be "good"!
I have not seen a single discussion on this and no, coin should not be nerfed.
yup, just make it cost 1 mana instead
herpderp
@Geoff I'm not sure why all the hostility towards your question but the coin is an imperfect answer to try and make up for a fundamental flaw in the way hearthstone is designed. The devs did the best they could and played around with many different versions of how to try to make up for how much worse it was to go second including at one point play testing giving a free 0 Mana 1/1 instead, but the winrate for going first was still way too high. Thus coin and the extra card was the best solution they could come up with that got the closest to 50/50 winrate as they could.
Even in rouge if you really look at and break down win rates, especially at higher ranks, it's still better to go first as a rogue because rogue is a tempo class and the tempo and Mana advantage of going first is still better for rogue than having access to the coin. It simply hurts less to go second as a rogue than it does with the other classes but it is always better in every class to go first. The only exception to this rule (in standard) is perhaps in druid simply because coining out overgrowth a turn earlier can make up for the Mana disadvantage of going second and the coin can be used with kel' but those interactions won't be in standard forever.
Also when to use the coin introduces a lot of skill testing plays that you would miss out on. From Mana cheating in classes that can't usually cant do that such as saving a coin the entire game for a double battle cry shutter (usually a mistake), to the simple interactions it has with triggering secrets, and everything in between are reasons I wouldn't want to lose it.
Good question. I guess it depends how much of a nerf you need. If “how you remind me” came on whenever you played the coin, consider the card unplayable.