When I took a break from Hearthstone like years ago Shaman was on top. How is it that Shaman stays on top? It's like Blizzard has no idea how to deal with this class.
And my favorite class Priest is at the bottom like always...
When I took a break from Hearthstone like years ago Shaman was on top. How is it that Shaman stays on top? It's like Blizzard has no idea how to deal with this class.
And my favorite class Priest is at the bottom like always...
Shaman was utter garbage for more than a year... Freeze Shaman LUL
All you people bitching about these nerfs are being dramatic as hell.
These changes are significant enough to allow other decks to start closing the WR gaps but still allow the deck to continue to be a player in the meta. The WR of Shaman has already gone down significantly since they announced they were making adjustments and it is going to go down even further and bring it more in line with other decks without snuffing it out of the meta completely.
There is no world in which these win rates stay as is with these minor changes, and is most certainly is not going up. That only leaves on direction for it to go... can you guess it?
If you don't think 5 and up to 6 mana is enough of a change, then you clearly have not played that much of the Shaman deck. Many games you are casting it at 5 because you need to do it again on turn 6 or you fall behind. Now it just completely removed your ability to do it on turn 5 which means your turn 6 is not going to turn as tight of a corner.
All you people bitching about these nerfs are being dramatic as hell.
These changes are significant enough to allow other decks to start closing the WR gaps but still allow the deck to continue to be a player in the meta. The WR of Shaman has already gone down significantly since they announced they were making adjustments and it is going to go down even further and bring it more in line with other decks without snuffing it out of the meta completely.
There is no world in which these win rates stay as is with these minor changes, and is most certainly is not going up. That only leaves on direction for it to go... can you guess it?
If you don't think 5 and up to 6 mana is enough of a change, then you clearly have not played that much of the Shaman deck. Many games you are casting it at 5 because you need to do it again on turn 6 or you fall behind. Now it just completely removed your ability to do it on turn 5 which means your turn 6 is not going to turn as tight of a corner.
Get a grip on yourselves.
Ah man, I've seen you around in a few of these threads, and have always seen it as a bit of fresh air.
I think people were wanting to see it obliterated from the meta entirely, due to just how ubiquitous it became for the first week. A sentiment I can understand, but not share. New decks had already started to arise that could handle it (dragon mage was the first, aggro hunter turned up, and now we have death rattle rogue as well), but the damage was done in peoples mind. They wanted it dead.
These nerfs were close to what I had expected to arise, but a bit different. I don't think anyone saw sludge slurper getting a hammer hit to the head, but the rest were close to what I was expecting. I called the 6 mana hit to elementalist (crafted 2 golden in preparation), a hit to faceless corrupter (though everyone and their grandmother saw this coming. I was expecting it to be made a 6 mana 5/3, though honestly I think this nerf might a more subtle, but more damaging nerf. 5 attack in this meta is actually super relevant due to shield of galakrond, who now can trade with a corrupter, as well as a few other 5 health cards), and wasn't expecting dragons pack to be hit, even if it could have been justified. I actually expected the quest to take a slight knock, but I guess the slurper hit kinda was that.
What we have now is a situaiton where faster decks can now control the earlier board easier, and are less likely to be slapped down on turn 5 by elementalist or dragons pack. This will be enough to let the meta shift. Shaman is still going to be good guys, but I would be shocked if we still live in the meta of 50% shaman soon. I'm now looking forward to seeing what other whacky decks rise up now. Who knew whisp could be meta relevant again?
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.
The change to Mogu makes it unplayable. The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.
Next time before you start rant, get a clue.
No.
Now it will evolve into a 10/10 or higher 50% of the time.
anyone who says "these nerfs are not good enough" they have no idea what they were talking about. After these nerfs Shaman will be an easy prey for any aggro deck.
Be careful. You posted truth. Truth gets moderated. ;)
Fun fact, if you survive long enough to do your revive stuff, they ALT+F4. Shamans are so used to get perfect cards, they cant deal with non rush contra.
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.
The change to Mogu makes it unplayable. The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.
Next time before you start rant, get a clue.
No.
Now it will evolve into a 10/10 or higher 50% of the time.
So? The deck is no longer able to turn tight corners in the midamge thanks to consecutive Corrupt Elementalist on turns 4/5 or 5/6. I think people are underestimating how significant of a hit it is for the deck, and those who do not understand that - probably have not actually piloted the deck enough to know what tight games are (and yes, it has them - lots of them). Mogu having an upshift in mana doesn't actually make "well now he mutates into better stats" an argument that is anything more than speculation. Because the deck may just end up cutting Mogu now to adjust for having a weaker midgame where other decks can punish you for having marginal removal and an over reliance on small rush minions coming down essentially 2 turns later.
Don't get me wrong, I think Galakrond Shaman is still quite playable.
But you people down playing these changes are simply on a witch hunt that is running dry.
To think that you expected hefty balance changes to a deck where stats caused outcry in the 1st 24 hours of a set release is comical. It is also fascinating how many people attribute the play rate of the deck to being a result of sheer power and don't even consider that it houses many residual pieces of a former deck making the barrier to entry for a competitive 1st week, insanely low for those players - which likely inflates the play rate simply due to accessibility.
Who the hell would shift from Shaman to other decks when your key legendary is free and the rest are rare crafts/pulls, in order to craft a bunch of legendaries for all of these crazy other decks?
Hearthstone with Blizzard is like that girlfriend you are so extremely in love with but keeps disappointing you time after time. Yet, you can't let her go.
I am actually happy that they are nerfing Corrupt Elementalist because I got her two golden cards from packs which will make me dust for 1 legendary this evening 😅
i cant believe someone complaint about mogu nerf because it could evolve into 10 drop ?
Seriously, stat doesn't mean much at later game because opp has more card and mana to deal with it. Remember Conjurer's Calling ? just 1 mana more but its power went down significantly
i cant believe someone complaint about mogu nerf because it could evolve into 10 drop ?
Seriously, stat doesn't mean much at later game because opp has more card and mana to deal with it. Remember Conjurer's Calling ? just 1 mana more but its power went down significantly
Conjurer's Calling's nerf specifically made it impossible to get 4 Mountain Giants on the board without good RNG from Pocket Galaxy, which was also nerfed.
Mogu isn't a late game card. It's just going to more often be a 1-2 drop now instead of a zero drop.
I think they've done well. Remember, Leper Gnome got nerfed from 2/1 to 1/1 and died for it, so did Abusive Sergeant. I think Sludge Slurper will suffer the same fate or at least be much less effective.
Corrupt Elementalist is still strong but costing 6 mana doesn't just mean it's more expensive, it also means it can't be played on t5 yet making shaman worse against aggro matchups because of the later turn.
Mogu Fleshshaper does evolve into a strong pool of minions but it can't be played as easily onto a small board, which also nerfs Mutate because it can't be used as much.
I think the nerfs are a safe choice to make shaman weaker but not instantly drill them into the ground. I like what they did.
Be careful to throw facts here in the forums: people might stop to scream how awful the nerf is and begin to think. And no, my main is Priest, the worst right now in standard and wild.
As said above: a 2/1 vs a 1/1 is heaven and earth: a 2/1 trades equally with a 3/2, while a 1/1 can't. That's fricking important in the early game and makes Galakrond shaman even worse against aggro.
The same is true for Corrupt elementarist, and here is the nerf even worse. There is a hard border between 5 mana and 6 mana. While at 5 you can play what you want, has 6 mana minions quite a hurdle. And you can't coin it out on turn 4 anymore, also important for the 4 elementarist/5wolves combo.
With this alone the wolfes are also nerfed, not being able to be played until turn 7 in most cases.
And sorry, if you really think that a 2 mana nerf is a buff, then you are really really deillusioned. 9 mana and 7 mana are heaven and earth, and yes, if you get a 12/12, congratulation. But Mogu can no longer transform in things that are more dangerous than this. Priests 6/8 that resurrect a minion at the end of the turn is for example far worse than this. And to transform him you need more mana. And you probably only can do it a few turns later. A 8 mana minion on turn 4 is far MORE dangerous as a 10 mana minion on turn 6-7.
All in all it's a good patch with pretty good minion pools. Mogu might still be a concern,and personally they should simply make Mogu Fleshshaper a 3/2, that would probably be a better nerf, because you can't then trade with anything on board anymore. having 4 health let you probably trade with one thing on the board.
The Corrupt Elementalist still really good and now it's a good target to Evolve too. The 7 mana pool is good.
In Wild, the 6 mana pool is far more scarier than the 7 mana pool. I rather have the enemy give a Dr. Boom that does nothing than a Sylvanas Windrunner. And the 7 mana pools has some pretty bad things in it too.
i cant believe someone complaint about mogu nerf because it could evolve into 10 drop ?
Seriously, stat doesn't mean much at later game because opp has more card and mana to deal with it. Remember Conjurer's Calling ? just 1 mana more but its power went down significantly
Conjurer's Calling's nerf specifically made it impossible to get 4 Mountain Giants on the board without good RNG from Pocket Galaxy, which was also nerfed.
Mogu isn't a late game card. It's just going to more often be a 1-2 drop now instead of a zero drop.
I was watching BoarControl play with Gala Warrior vs Gala Shaman before. Shaman played Invocation of Frost, Boar played Town Crier, Shaman HP'ed Stoneclaw Totem, Boar played Armorsmith and sighed that he was dead to Mogu-Mutate. What happened? Shaman played Mogu, took value trade, played Mutate into Octosari. GG.
This can't happen anymore.
The later Mogu comes down, the easier it is to deal with. And it becomes harder and harder to even get the value trade. Finally the 8 drop pool has a huge number of high rolls: Akali, Al' Akir, Tirion, Batterhead, Mosh-Ogg. All of them are capable of creating swings that can't be overcome. Don't forget Akali will often be able to kill another thing immediately and this results in Shaman drawing a buffed Faceless.
splitting hairs a bit~
Also he didn't specify standard.
Terrible, almost not nerfs at all.
The only deck M.A.Y.B.E suffer is murlock shaman but no one uses anymore.
When I took a break from Hearthstone like years ago Shaman was on top. How is it that Shaman stays on top? It's like Blizzard has no idea how to deal with this class.
And my favorite class Priest is at the bottom like always...
Shaman was utter garbage for more than a year... Freeze Shaman LUL
All you people bitching about these nerfs are being dramatic as hell.
These changes are significant enough to allow other decks to start closing the WR gaps but still allow the deck to continue to be a player in the meta. The WR of Shaman has already gone down significantly since they announced they were making adjustments and it is going to go down even further and bring it more in line with other decks without snuffing it out of the meta completely.
There is no world in which these win rates stay as is with these minor changes, and is most certainly is not going up. That only leaves on direction for it to go... can you guess it?
If you don't think 5 and up to 6 mana is enough of a change, then you clearly have not played that much of the Shaman deck. Many games you are casting it at 5 because you need to do it again on turn 6 or you fall behind. Now it just completely removed your ability to do it on turn 5 which means your turn 6 is not going to turn as tight of a corner.
Get a grip on yourselves.
https://mobile.twitter.com/IksarHS/status/1207434490869616640?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1207434490869616640&ref_url=https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/16-0-5-balance-update-nerfs-to-corrupt-elementalist-sludge-slurper-faceless-corruptor-mogu-fleshshaper-battlegrounds-changes/
Chill your tits. They said they'll do another round if this isn't enough.
Ah man, I've seen you around in a few of these threads, and have always seen it as a bit of fresh air.
I think people were wanting to see it obliterated from the meta entirely, due to just how ubiquitous it became for the first week. A sentiment I can understand, but not share. New decks had already started to arise that could handle it (dragon mage was the first, aggro hunter turned up, and now we have death rattle rogue as well), but the damage was done in peoples mind. They wanted it dead.
These nerfs were close to what I had expected to arise, but a bit different. I don't think anyone saw sludge slurper getting a hammer hit to the head, but the rest were close to what I was expecting. I called the 6 mana hit to elementalist (crafted 2 golden in preparation), a hit to faceless corrupter (though everyone and their grandmother saw this coming. I was expecting it to be made a 6 mana 5/3, though honestly I think this nerf might a more subtle, but more damaging nerf. 5 attack in this meta is actually super relevant due to shield of galakrond, who now can trade with a corrupter, as well as a few other 5 health cards), and wasn't expecting dragons pack to be hit, even if it could have been justified. I actually expected the quest to take a slight knock, but I guess the slurper hit kinda was that.
What we have now is a situaiton where faster decks can now control the earlier board easier, and are less likely to be slapped down on turn 5 by elementalist or dragons pack. This will be enough to let the meta shift. Shaman is still going to be good guys, but I would be shocked if we still live in the meta of 50% shaman soon. I'm now looking forward to seeing what other whacky decks rise up now. Who knew whisp could be meta relevant again?
No.
Now it will evolve into a 10/10 or higher 50% of the time.
anyone who says "these nerfs are not good enough" they have no idea what they were talking about. After these nerfs Shaman will be an easy prey for any aggro deck.
Dead but dreaming
Be careful. You posted truth. Truth gets moderated. ;)
Fun fact, if you survive long enough to do your revive stuff, they ALT+F4. Shamans are so used to get perfect cards, they cant deal with non rush contra.
So? The deck is no longer able to turn tight corners in the midamge thanks to consecutive Corrupt Elementalist on turns 4/5 or 5/6. I think people are underestimating how significant of a hit it is for the deck, and those who do not understand that - probably have not actually piloted the deck enough to know what tight games are (and yes, it has them - lots of them). Mogu having an upshift in mana doesn't actually make "well now he mutates into better stats" an argument that is anything more than speculation. Because the deck may just end up cutting Mogu now to adjust for having a weaker midgame where other decks can punish you for having marginal removal and an over reliance on small rush minions coming down essentially 2 turns later.
Don't get me wrong, I think Galakrond Shaman is still quite playable.
But you people down playing these changes are simply on a witch hunt that is running dry.
To think that you expected hefty balance changes to a deck where stats caused outcry in the 1st 24 hours of a set release is comical. It is also fascinating how many people attribute the play rate of the deck to being a result of sheer power and don't even consider that it houses many residual pieces of a former deck making the barrier to entry for a competitive 1st week, insanely low for those players - which likely inflates the play rate simply due to accessibility.
Who the hell would shift from Shaman to other decks when your key legendary is free and the rest are rare crafts/pulls, in order to craft a bunch of legendaries for all of these crazy other decks?
The nerfs are good, stop being bad.
They are significant enough to slow down shaman and thus give other decks a better chance to win while still not taking away shaman's wincon.
Great nerfs
Hearthstone with Blizzard is like that girlfriend you are so extremely in love with but keeps disappointing you time after time.
Yet, you can't let her go.
I am actually happy that they are nerfing Corrupt Elementalist because I got her two golden cards from packs which will make me dust for 1 legendary this evening 😅
i cant believe someone complaint about mogu nerf because it could evolve into 10 drop ?
Seriously, stat doesn't mean much at later game because opp has more card and mana to deal with it. Remember Conjurer's Calling ? just 1 mana more but its power went down significantly
Conjurer's Calling's nerf specifically made it impossible to get 4 Mountain Giants on the board without good RNG from Pocket Galaxy, which was also nerfed.
Mogu isn't a late game card. It's just going to more often be a 1-2 drop now instead of a zero drop.
Be careful to throw facts here in the forums: people might stop to scream how awful the nerf is and begin to think. And no, my main is Priest, the worst right now in standard and wild.
As said above: a 2/1 vs a 1/1 is heaven and earth: a 2/1 trades equally with a 3/2, while a 1/1 can't. That's fricking important in the early game and makes Galakrond shaman even worse against aggro.
The same is true for Corrupt elementarist, and here is the nerf even worse. There is a hard border between 5 mana and 6 mana. While at 5 you can play what you want, has 6 mana minions quite a hurdle. And you can't coin it out on turn 4 anymore, also important for the 4 elementarist/5wolves combo.
With this alone the wolfes are also nerfed, not being able to be played until turn 7 in most cases.
And sorry, if you really think that a 2 mana nerf is a buff, then you are really really deillusioned. 9 mana and 7 mana are heaven and earth, and yes, if you get a 12/12, congratulation. But Mogu can no longer transform in things that are more dangerous than this. Priests 6/8 that resurrect a minion at the end of the turn is for example far worse than this. And to transform him you need more mana. And you probably only can do it a few turns later. A 8 mana minion on turn 4 is far MORE dangerous as a 10 mana minion on turn 6-7.
All in all it's a good patch with pretty good minion pools. Mogu might still be a concern,and personally they should simply make Mogu Fleshshaper a 3/2, that would probably be a better nerf, because you can't then trade with anything on board anymore. having 4 health let you probably trade with one thing on the board.
In Wild, the 6 mana pool is far more scarier than the 7 mana pool. I rather have the enemy give a Dr. Boom that does nothing than a Sylvanas Windrunner. And the 7 mana pools has some pretty bad things in it too.
Guys chill we are getting 35 new cards
Favorite Cards: 1. Lord Jaraxxus | 2. Malygos| 3. Edwin VanCleef | 4. Zephrys the Great| 5. Deathwing
I was watching BoarControl play with Gala Warrior vs Gala Shaman before. Shaman played Invocation of Frost, Boar played Town Crier, Shaman HP'ed Stoneclaw Totem, Boar played Armorsmith and sighed that he was dead to Mogu-Mutate. What happened? Shaman played Mogu, took value trade, played Mutate into Octosari. GG.
This can't happen anymore.
The later Mogu comes down, the easier it is to deal with. And it becomes harder and harder to even get the value trade. Finally the 8 drop pool has a huge number of high rolls: Akali, Al' Akir, Tirion, Batterhead, Mosh-Ogg. All of them are capable of creating swings that can't be overcome. Don't forget Akali will often be able to kill another thing immediately and this results in Shaman drawing a buffed Faceless.