Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Mogu Fleshshaper can now be evolved into a 10-drop for F R E E. Nice. While we're at it, how about you nerfing Evolve to 1 mana? Crazy right?!
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.
The change to Mogu makes it unplayable. The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.
The change to Mogu makes it unplayable. The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.
Next time before you start rant, get a clue.
I rechecked the rant after posting it, and corrected it. Thanks tho.
We have 33 8-Cost minions with several duds including Hir'eek, the Bat, some high rolls like Tirion and Deathwing. I would say they avarage out as a 6/7 vanilla minion for this purpose.
If they just changed the flavor text of Shudderwock from
Battlecry: Repeat all other Battlecries from cards you played this game (targets chosen randomly).
to
Battlecry: Repeat all other Battlecries from minions you played this game (targets chosen randomly).
It would have been enough but no let’s give them extra 8/8 bodies cause shaman really deserves it and while we are at it reequip the Weapon cause why not ?
10-mana pool is SUPER consistent only 1 drop is less than 8/8 stats. The big hits are Malecgos (free Dragon's Pack is insta GG) and Hakkar but only in the Holy Wrath Paladin, and Galakrond Rogue match up. But most importantly there are WAY less 10 drops so you can count on nut RNG rolls more often. Thats why Spiteful Summoner was broken in Druid and not other classes if you can hit a small pool of almost all Overpowered increases the strength of RNG effects by ALOT!
But Galakrond Shaman doesn't need that card, it REALLY doesn't NEED Sludge Slurper. Elementalist change has some impact.
I think the nerfs will take Galakrond Shaman from being the best deck in the game with a 65% WR to being the best deck in the game with a 55% winrate.
But maybe that is enough to open up the meta a little
I think they've done well. Remember, Leper Gnome got nerfed from 2/1 to 1/1 and died for it, so did Abusive Sergeant. I think Sludge Slurper will suffer the same fate or at least be much less effective.
Corrupt Elementalist is still strong but costing 6 mana doesn't just mean it's more expensive, it also means it can't be played on t5 yet making shaman worse against aggro matchups because of the later turn.
Mogu Fleshshaper does evolve into a strong pool of minions but it can't be played as easily onto a small board, which also nerfs Mutate because it can't be used as much.
I think the nerfs are a safe choice to make shaman weaker but not instantly drill them into the ground. I like what they did.
Seeing the Battlegrounds changes, it looked like they put way more effort and work into it than on their main game mode.
Which of course, could have been planned weeks ago and were just waiting now to deploy it and simply combined it with hasty adjustments for a Standard monster.
Which also means they were testing and balancing more a secondary mode than actually playtesting enough their main mode. It really could NOT have escaped their radar, Galakrond Shaman, almost card by card, is even a pre-constructed deck on the Whizbang pool and plays exactly the same way. There's no way they didn't see it in play.
I think they've done well. Remember, Leper Gnome got nerfed from 2/1 to 1/1 and died for it, so did Abusive Sergeant. I think Sludge Slurper will suffer the same fate or at least be much less effective.
Corrupt Elementalist is still strong but costing 6 mana doesn't just mean it's more expensive, it also means it can't be played on t5 yet making shaman worse against aggro matchups because of the later turn.
Mogu Fleshshaper does evolve into a strong pool of minions but it can't be played as easily onto a small board, which also nerfs Mutate because it can't be used as much.
I think the nerfs are a safe choice to make shaman weaker but not instantly drill them into the ground. I like what they did.
Ye, you nailed it. Thats exactly my thoughts on that. This reduce the shaman power but does not make it unplayable. Well, at least for some :D
Edit: Im still worried about rogues but some say they are easier to counter and less consistent so maybe this nerfs was all that we needed.
We have 33 8-Cost minions with several duds including Hir'eek, the Bat, some high rolls like Tirion and Deathwing. I would say they avarage out as a 6/7 vanilla minion for this purpose.
There is few bad 8 drops but also lots of good 8 drops. And making mogu at 9 mana it's make playing around mogu mutate combo mutch easier. I face mutch raither 10-drop in turn 6 than 8-drop in turn 4.
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Mogu Fleshshaper can now be evolved into a 10-drop for F R E E. Nice. While we're at it, how about you nerfing Evolve to 1 mana? Crazy right?!
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Small changes like these can have big effects. I'll wait to see how things end up before I complain one way or the other. I think they could be good enough. Sludge Slurper was an issue. At a 2/1 he traded up and often you wanted to remove him before playing anything into him. Sure he is as easily removed as he was before, but now I can just as easily completely ignore him in favor of removing him later.
Corrupt Elementalist I think is a decent nerf. At 5 mana he had an easy time removing many 4 cost minions from the invoke. If curve is as important as everyone makes it out to be then this is a solid nerf.
Mogu flesh Shaper I need to wait and see. 10 cost mutates is scary. I am not sure if it's a nerf at all. He is slower and will obviously come out a bit later than normal making him less useful for an early trades into a powerful mutate. I do think there are specific situation where this change does hurt and that is against any deck that play very few creatures, like reno mage. This guy will be annoyingly costly in those situations. So less useful against decks that don't flood. Better against decks that do.
Personally I think it's likely to be good enough. Shudder is good but isn't what normally beats me. It's their ability to clear my board while continually flooding their own. Delaying all that by a a turn or two is pretty big in my eyes.
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Mogu Fleshshaper can now be evolved into a 10-drop for F R E E. Nice. While we're at it, how about you nerfing Evolve to 1 mana? Crazy right?!
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
First off, it's not really about the value. It's all about the tempo, and all these changes delays shamans power-turns. Especially against aggro!
The fact that I can play 3 or even 4 minions turn 4 without risking getting Mogu evolve is HUGE. I don't care if he does it a turn later, he still has to spend his whole turn 5 to remove 1 minion and make a big dude. I'll just kill him. 10-drops have less taunts than 8-drops.
1/1 instead of 2/1 matters if I'm building a board early. Double invoke being 6-mana is bad tempo against aggro and delays the wolves a lot of the time. It makes the deck so much more vulnerable to aggro. I'll bet you anything that the list as it is now will have a negative winrate against most if not all Tier 1-2 aggro-decks
Hopefully the rise of aggro will counteract a bit of deathrattle Rogue as well :)
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.
The change to Mogu makes it unplayable. The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.
Next time before you start rant, get a clue.
You spout like you know what you're talking about but then you say adding 2 more mana to mogu makes it unplayable. Come see me in 4 hours and see if you still feel that way. Oh, and 10 mana minions "whiff" less than 8 mana ones.
Don't get me wrong, any nerfs to Shaman are welcome from me. But people expected a little more from this patch, don't you think?
Sludge Slurper has 1 attack now guys? Damn, it will now be impossible to just ping him or use any cheap spell to remove him /s. Definitely what we've been waiting for, remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
Corrupt Elementalist will still be extremely valuable, making her cost one more mana to summon two 2-1's with rush AND invoke Galakrond twice(basically,upgrade him) will NOT have as big of an impact as you think.
Mogu Fleshshaper can now be evolved into a 10-drop for F R E E. Nice. While we're at it, how about you nerfing Evolve to 1 mana? Crazy right?!
Shaman Galakrond being easily the most valuable Galakrond, made pretty insane by the extremely easy to complete Shaman quest? Nah,we won't touch any of those. We'll remove the attack of a 1-drop by one.
And don't get me started on Shudderwock. Everything that's wrong with the class starts from this card if you ask me.
Mogu could already be evolved to Deathwing - the 8 mana one not the 10 mana one.
The change to Mogu makes it unplayable. The 8-mana pool is just as good if not better than the 10-mana pool.
Next time before you start rant, get a clue.
SHAMAN LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY!!!
I rechecked the rant after posting it, and corrected it. Thanks tho.
Sorry if you're a Shaman main or something.
Welp I guess shaman players can enjoy the next 4months as well till rotation hits.
See you next expansion boys
We have 33 8-Cost minions with several duds including Hir'eek, the Bat, some high rolls like Tirion and Deathwing. I would say they avarage out as a 6/7 vanilla minion for this purpose.
While there is 13 10-cost one and one dud as King Phaoris, all the other minions are between 10/10 and 8/8s, Deathwing, Nozari and Big Bad Archmage.
If they just changed the flavor text of Shudderwock from
Battlecry: Repeat all other Battlecries from cards you played this game (targets chosen randomly).
to
Battlecry: Repeat all other Battlecries from minions you played this game (targets chosen randomly).
It would have been enough but no let’s give them extra 8/8 bodies cause shaman really deserves it and while we are at it reequip the Weapon cause why not ?
10-mana pool is SUPER consistent only 1 drop is less than 8/8 stats. The big hits are Malecgos (free Dragon's Pack is insta GG) and Hakkar but only in the Holy Wrath Paladin, and Galakrond Rogue match up. But most importantly there are WAY less 10 drops so you can count on nut RNG rolls more often. Thats why Spiteful Summoner was broken in Druid and not other classes if you can hit a small pool of almost all Overpowered increases the strength of RNG effects by ALOT!
But Galakrond Shaman doesn't need that card, it REALLY doesn't NEED Sludge Slurper. Elementalist change has some impact.
I think the nerfs will take Galakrond Shaman from being the best deck in the game with a 65% WR to being the best deck in the game with a 55% winrate.
But maybe that is enough to open up the meta a little
Why not just up the cost of how many battle cry minions it takes to complete the quest, it's so simple.
Hell they nerfed old rogue quest like 4 times
I think they've done well. Remember, Leper Gnome got nerfed from 2/1 to 1/1 and died for it, so did Abusive Sergeant. I think Sludge Slurper will suffer the same fate or at least be much less effective.
Corrupt Elementalist is still strong but costing 6 mana doesn't just mean it's more expensive, it also means it can't be played on t5 yet making shaman worse against aggro matchups because of the later turn.
Mogu Fleshshaper does evolve into a strong pool of minions but it can't be played as easily onto a small board, which also nerfs Mutate because it can't be used as much.
I think the nerfs are a safe choice to make shaman weaker but not instantly drill them into the ground. I like what they did.
That's Incredible!
Seeing the Battlegrounds changes, it looked like they put way more effort and work into it than on their main game mode.
Which of course, could have been planned weeks ago and were just waiting now to deploy it and simply combined it with hasty adjustments for a Standard monster.
Which also means they were testing and balancing more a secondary mode than actually playtesting enough their main mode. It really could NOT have escaped their radar, Galakrond Shaman, almost card by card, is even a pre-constructed deck on the Whizbang pool and plays exactly the same way. There's no way they didn't see it in play.
Ye, you nailed it. Thats exactly my thoughts on that. This reduce the shaman power but does not make it unplayable. Well, at least for some :D
Edit: Im still worried about rogues but some say they are easier to counter and less consistent so maybe this nerfs was all that we needed.
There is few bad 8 drops but also lots of good 8 drops. And making mogu at 9 mana it's make playing around mogu mutate combo mutch easier. I face mutch raither 10-drop in turn 6 than 8-drop in turn 4.
Small changes like these can have big effects. I'll wait to see how things end up before I complain one way or the other. I think they could be good enough. Sludge Slurper was an issue. At a 2/1 he traded up and often you wanted to remove him before playing anything into him. Sure he is as easily removed as he was before, but now I can just as easily completely ignore him in favor of removing him later.
Corrupt Elementalist I think is a decent nerf. At 5 mana he had an easy time removing many 4 cost minions from the invoke. If curve is as important as everyone makes it out to be then this is a solid nerf.
Mogu flesh Shaper I need to wait and see. 10 cost mutates is scary. I am not sure if it's a nerf at all. He is slower and will obviously come out a bit later than normal making him less useful for an early trades into a powerful mutate. I do think there are specific situation where this change does hurt and that is against any deck that play very few creatures, like reno mage. This guy will be annoyingly costly in those situations. So less useful against decks that don't flood. Better against decks that do.
Personally I think it's likely to be good enough. Shudder is good but isn't what normally beats me. It's their ability to clear my board while continually flooding their own. Delaying all that by a a turn or two is pretty big in my eyes.
First off, it's not really about the value. It's all about the tempo, and all these changes delays shamans power-turns. Especially against aggro!
The fact that I can play 3 or even 4 minions turn 4 without risking getting Mogu evolve is HUGE. I don't care if he does it a turn later, he still has to spend his whole turn 5 to remove 1 minion and make a big dude. I'll just kill him. 10-drops have less taunts than 8-drops.
1/1 instead of 2/1 matters if I'm building a board early. Double invoke being 6-mana is bad tempo against aggro and delays the wolves a lot of the time. It makes the deck so much more vulnerable to aggro. I'll bet you anything that the list as it is now will have a negative winrate against most if not all Tier 1-2 aggro-decks
Hopefully the rise of aggro will counteract a bit of deathrattle Rogue as well :)
It's time to craft a golden galakrond shaman!
LUL
You spout like you know what you're talking about but then you say adding 2 more mana to mogu makes it unplayable. Come see me in 4 hours and see if you still feel that way. Oh, and 10 mana minions "whiff" less than 8 mana ones.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/212005-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty
The Corrupt Elementalist still really good and now it's a good target to Evolve too. The 7 mana pool is good.
THAT'S INCREDIBLE
There is no more Evolve in Standard. You mean Mutate?