I don't think they should nerf anything! I'm sick of people crying for nerfs, go play MTG! I hate nerfs in general unless a card feels super ubber broken. No cards exist like that now.
Beating rogue is simple, it's called weapon removal, and cards that heal you.
At the moment we are dangerously being close to a rock paper scissor metagame, where only the queue determins the win. Mage slaughters Warrior which slaughters rogue which slaughters mage.
That's not what people want to experience. So, I guess tempo rogue does warp the meta. Control warrior wouldnt be played without rogues.
A little nerf would maybe kot be the worst. The offender is raiding party to be honest. Maybe a mana increase. Itll still see plenty of play and tempo rogue would still be a deck, but not as polarized.
You have your opinion and I have mine. We don´t come together at this point and I´m glad about. I´m sad and sick of all these crybabies just screaming for nerfs in the first weeks of a new meta. Just be a little bit patient. If there will no change come after a few weeks and rogue really would be dominate meta that extremely, may a nerf will be justified then. There´s nothing to say against. I´m fair at this point. But not in first few weeks! Thats a little bit to hasty imo.
There are about 17 weeks between expansions. We just passed the 2-week mark for this one. That means we are about 12 percent (1/8) of the way through this meta's life cycle.
Now is exactly the time to talk about nerfs. Once a decision is made, it will take Blizzard a couple of weeks to implement them. If a decision were made right this second, the nerf wouldn't be implemented until a quarter of the way through the life cycle.
I, for one, am not willing to spend more than 25 percent of my Hearthstone time dealing with an oppressive archetype. The Year of the Mammoth already taught us about two things that are generally problematic -- excessive mana cheating and infinite value. Preparation is a case of the former; Boom is a case of the latter. Both need to be addressed ASAP.
P.S. Failing to recognize the importance of statistics is nothing to be proud of. That's how we end up with measles epidemics in the 21st century.
I don't think they should nerf anything! I'm sick of people crying for nerfs, go play MTG! I hate nerfs in general unless a card feels super ubber broken. No cards exist like that now.
Beating rogue is simple, it's called weapon removal, and cards that heal you.
By that logic control shaman should completely annihilate rogue. It doesnt. Really only control warrior can keep at the moment. No matter how many oozes you play.
Rogue is artificially OP, only IMO. I've said it before, but it's the lack of a card pool, and more to the point the lack of early game removal and taunts that make rogue as daunting as it currently is.
With this in mind rather than nerfs, I'd propose bringing a few cards out of retirement that could help out.
If they made tar creeper and stonehill defender classic, I don't think rogue would be as much of an issue.
Maybe give warlock defile back or something.
I know this won't happen, but I'm trying to create a new paradigm here in your minds. Nerfing the shit out of Rogue now will hurt it detrimentally further down the line when the next Expacs come out.
Honestly, if they did something like temporary nerfs, I'd be on board. But forever changing a card based on an incredibly sparse card pool is not really the best answer.
If sap and prep got HOF'd, by the end of the year rogue will be the worst class in the game most likely.
Just my opinion, but I'd rather think outside of the box and try and come up with an answer that doesn't include nerfing cards that are the key identity of a class. (and I know they will do this, as they did it to druid as well)
Would one of these two options not be better than straight up changing something, forever?
Rogue is the reason i stopped playing this game lol
I said the same thing about Druid's during KotFT...difference is that actually was the definition of oppressive, it's only minorly oppressive now but people seemingly can't handle anything now.
To reiterate earlier points, if you honestly think Prep should get nerfed, you have no idea how Rogue is designed and balanced. At all, no exaggeration, you have no idea what you're talking about. My only fear is they listen to these ignorant malcontents and levy an unncecessary deathknell to Rogue.
It's just that i match everytime a rogue. I can't really enjoy this game if the meta is only rogue. (i am a rogue main most of the time, to be clear)
They already told us, about HoF Cleef and put Xaril um his place. Same goes for prep. After seeing how we are going, i believe that will happen sooner than latter
Rogue is artificially OP, only IMO. I've said it before, but it's the lack of a card pool, and more to the point the lack of early game removal and taunts that make rogue as daunting as it currently is.
I understand your thought process here, but I truly don't think that lack of early game is the reason Rogue is particularly good now. Indeed, Rogue is one of the main reasons that early game is so bad right now - it's very hard to stick anything in the face of Backstab, SI:7, or the Lackeys.
Further, I believe that Rogue has contributed to, if not being directly responsible for, more cards being nerfed than any other class.
- Cold Blood - Giggling Inventor (Quest Rogue) - Crystal Core - Bonemare (tempo rogue) - Corridor Creeper (also tempo rogue) - Patches the Pirate (also tempo rogue) - The Caverns Below - Small-Time Buccaneer (also tempo rogue) - Blade Flurry - Master of Disguise - Gadgetzan Auctioneer (miracle rogue) - Leeroy Jenkins (miracle rogue) - Conceal
Now, it's possible that some of these cards may have been nerfed without being integral to successful rogue decks. But it can't be denied that the fact they were particularly good in rogue played an important role in their being nerfed.
And common to almost all of these decks is the core of Backstab, Preparation, Sap, SI:7, and Edwin VanCleef.
Aside from Druid, I don't think another class has ever relied so completely on it's Basic/Classic set. It's probably past time to do something about that.
Rogue is artificially OP, only IMO. I've said it before, but it's the lack of a card pool, and more to the point the lack of early game removal and taunts that make rogue as daunting as it currently is.
I understand your thought process here, but I truly don't think that lack of early game is the reason Rogue is particularly good now. Indeed, Rogue is one of the main reasons that early game is so bad right now - it's very hard to stick anything in the face of Backstab, SI:7, or the Lackeys.
Further, I believe that Rogue has contributed to, if not being directly responsible for, more cards being nerfed than any other class.
- Cold Blood - Giggling Inventor (Quest Rogue) - Crystal Core - Bonemare (tempo rogue) - Corridor Creeper (also tempo rogue) - Patches the Pirate (also tempo rogue) - The Caverns Below - Small-Time Buccaneer (also tempo rogue) - Blade Flurry - Master of Disguise - Gadgetzan Auctioneer (miracle rogue) - Leeroy Jenkins (miracle rogue) - Conceal
Now, it's possible that some of these cards may have been nerfed without being integral to successful rogue decks. But it can't be denied that the fact they were particularly good in rogue played an important role in their being nerfed.
And common to almost all of these decks is the core of Backstab, Preparation, Sap, SI:7, and Edwin VanCleef.
Aside from Druid, I don't think another class has ever relied so completely on it's Basic/Classic set. It's probably past time to do something about that.
yeah fair enough dude. I wasn't here for when most of those cards got nerfed as I was probably playing something else, so I will just take your word for it.
maybe rogue is just OP then? I mean for a long time now rogue has always had a powerful tempo deck. I would not know what to change though really, this is why I try to think of other things that could help. I wouldn't even really know where to start with nerfing a class.
Just don't fight for board in the early game. No backstab=no miscreant on 3=no Iackeys=slow start. Then play minions they have trouble killing, like anything over 5 etc. It's not that hard it just takes some thinking. Also. Swamp ooze. Use it.
Rogue is artificially OP, only IMO. I've said it before, but it's the lack of a card pool, and more to the point the lack of early game removal and taunts that make rogue as daunting as it currently is.
I understand your thought process here, but I truly don't think that lack of early game is the reason Rogue is particularly good now. Indeed, Rogue is one of the main reasons that early game is so bad right now - it's very hard to stick anything in the face of Backstab, SI:7, or the Lackeys.
Further, I believe that Rogue has contributed to, if not being directly responsible for, more cards being nerfed than any other class.
- Cold Blood - Giggling Inventor (Quest Rogue) - Crystal Core - Bonemare (tempo rogue) - Corridor Creeper (also tempo rogue) - Patches the Pirate (also tempo rogue) - The Caverns Below - Small-Time Buccaneer (also tempo rogue) - Blade Flurry - Master of Disguise - Gadgetzan Auctioneer (miracle rogue) - Leeroy Jenkins (miracle rogue) - Conceal
Now, it's possible that some of these cards may have been nerfed without being integral to successful rogue decks. But it can't be denied that the fact they were particularly good in rogue played an important role in their being nerfed.
And common to almost all of these decks is the core of Backstab, Preparation, Sap, SI:7, and Edwin VanCleef.
Aside from Druid, I don't think another class has ever relied so completely on it's Basic/Classic set. It's probably past time to do something about that.
I feel like putting Bonemare, PAtches, STB, Creeper and Giggles on that list is kind of disingenous.
Like sure, Rogue probably benefitted the most from them (not even all of them, STB was a Pirate WArrior staple more than anything) but the real problem was that they were used in pretty much any deck that could run them instead of in those built around them.
Also I think Druid has caused more nerfs at this point. I mean over the course of their existence about 1/3 of their class/basic set has been hit. We've gotten to a point where Druid has been nerfed so many times that some of them are even outdated by today'S standards and could easily be reverted (Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore)
I have more troubles beating those insane bomb "I'm a retard" warrior than Rogue. If anything happens to Rogue, then Brawl has to leave with it. It such a bad designed card and everytime sets rotate out, it becomes soooo oppressive to play against.
I have more troubles beating those insane bomb "I'm a ******" warrior than Rogue. If anything happens to Rogue, then Brawl has to leave with it. It such a bad designed card and everytime sets rotate out, it becomes soooo oppressive to play against.
ironically Brawl has the lowest winrate by a wide margin in any control warrior deck.
It's just a poorly designed card but even removing brawl now wouldn't really fix the Warrior problem
There are about 17 weeks between expansions. We just passed the 2-week mark for this one. That means we are about 12 percent (1/8) of the way through this meta's life cycle.
Now is exactly the time to talk about nerfs. Once a decision is made, it will take Blizzard a couple of weeks to implement them. If a decision were made right this second, the nerf wouldn't be implemented until a quarter of the way through the life cycle.
I, for one, am not willing to spend more than 25 percent of my Hearthstone time dealing with an oppressive archetype. The Year of the Mammoth already taught us about two things that are generally problematic -- excessive mana cheating and infinite value. Preparation is a case of the former; Boom is a case of the latter. Both need to be addressed ASAP.
P.S. Failing to recognize the importance of statistics is nothing to be proud of. That's how we end up with measles epidemics in the 21st century.
The huge amount of writing skills you have is too difficult for us to handle, what kind of passion do you do in real life?
Why should Blizzard nerf Rogue?I play Rogue and lose every single game. This can be because I'm bad. But shouldn't a nerfable deck carry even bad players?
I have more troubles beating those insane bomb "I'm a ******" warrior than Rogue. If anything happens to Rogue, then Brawl has to leave with it. It such a bad designed card and everytime sets rotate out, it becomes soooo oppressive to play against.
ironically Brawl has the lowest winrate by a wide margin in any control warrior deck.
It's just a poorly designed card but even removing brawl now wouldn't really fix the Warrior problem
Depends on the time you look at the winrate. I guess, if you make a statistics nowadays, the winrate might actually be higher.
I don't think they should nerf anything! I'm sick of people crying for nerfs, go play MTG! I hate nerfs in general unless a card feels super ubber broken. No cards exist like that now.
Beating rogue is simple, it's called weapon removal, and cards that heal you.
At the moment we are dangerously being close to a rock paper scissor metagame, where only the queue determins the win. Mage slaughters Warrior which slaughters rogue which slaughters mage.
That's not what people want to experience. So, I guess tempo rogue does warp the meta. Control warrior wouldnt be played without rogues.
A little nerf would maybe kot be the worst. The offender is raiding party to be honest. Maybe a mana increase. Itll still see plenty of play and tempo rogue would still be a deck, but not as polarized.
Occasionally gives helpful advice.
There are about 17 weeks between expansions. We just passed the 2-week mark for this one. That means we are about 12 percent (1/8) of the way through this meta's life cycle.
Now is exactly the time to talk about nerfs. Once a decision is made, it will take Blizzard a couple of weeks to implement them. If a decision were made right this second, the nerf wouldn't be implemented until a quarter of the way through the life cycle.
I, for one, am not willing to spend more than 25 percent of my Hearthstone time dealing with an oppressive archetype. The Year of the Mammoth already taught us about two things that are generally problematic -- excessive mana cheating and infinite value. Preparation is a case of the former; Boom is a case of the latter. Both need to be addressed ASAP.
P.S. Failing to recognize the importance of statistics is nothing to be proud of. That's how we end up with measles epidemics in the 21st century.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
By that logic control shaman should completely annihilate rogue. It doesnt. Really only control warrior can keep at the moment. No matter how many oozes you play.
Occasionally gives helpful advice.
remenber token druid few days ago? ..meta always change after rotation Rogue rise .
Rogue is artificially OP, only IMO. I've said it before, but it's the lack of a card pool, and more to the point the lack of early game removal and taunts that make rogue as daunting as it currently is.
With this in mind rather than nerfs, I'd propose bringing a few cards out of retirement that could help out.
If they made tar creeper and stonehill defender classic, I don't think rogue would be as much of an issue.
Maybe give warlock defile back or something.
I know this won't happen, but I'm trying to create a new paradigm here in your minds. Nerfing the shit out of Rogue now will hurt it detrimentally further down the line when the next Expacs come out.
Honestly, if they did something like temporary nerfs, I'd be on board. But forever changing a card based on an incredibly sparse card pool is not really the best answer.
If sap and prep got HOF'd, by the end of the year rogue will be the worst class in the game most likely.
Just my opinion, but I'd rather think outside of the box and try and come up with an answer that doesn't include nerfing cards that are the key identity of a class. (and I know they will do this, as they did it to druid as well)
Would one of these two options not be better than straight up changing something, forever?
Umm... did you stop playing after the first two days? The entire meta is around Rogue at this point.
#nerfbarnes
It's just that i match everytime a rogue.
I can't really enjoy this game if the meta is only rogue. (i am a rogue main most of the time, to be clear)
Leper Gnome
They already told us, about HoF Cleef and put Xaril um his place. Same goes for prep. After seeing how we are going, i believe that will happen sooner than latter
I understand your thought process here, but I truly don't think that lack of early game is the reason Rogue is particularly good now. Indeed, Rogue is one of the main reasons that early game is so bad right now - it's very hard to stick anything in the face of Backstab, SI:7, or the Lackeys.
Further, I believe that Rogue has contributed to, if not being directly responsible for, more cards being nerfed than any other class.
- Cold Blood
- Giggling Inventor (Quest Rogue)
- Crystal Core
- Bonemare (tempo rogue)
- Corridor Creeper (also tempo rogue)
- Patches the Pirate (also tempo rogue)
- The Caverns Below
- Small-Time Buccaneer (also tempo rogue)
- Blade Flurry
- Master of Disguise
- Gadgetzan Auctioneer (miracle rogue)
- Leeroy Jenkins (miracle rogue)
- Conceal
Now, it's possible that some of these cards may have been nerfed without being integral to successful rogue decks. But it can't be denied that the fact they were particularly good in rogue played an important role in their being nerfed.
And common to almost all of these decks is the core of Backstab, Preparation, Sap, SI:7, and Edwin VanCleef.
Aside from Druid, I don't think another class has ever relied so completely on it's Basic/Classic set. It's probably past time to do something about that.
yeah fair enough dude. I wasn't here for when most of those cards got nerfed as I was probably playing something else, so I will just take your word for it.
maybe rogue is just OP then? I mean for a long time now rogue has always had a powerful tempo deck. I would not know what to change though really, this is why I try to think of other things that could help. I wouldn't even really know where to start with nerfing a class.
Just don't fight for board in the early game. No backstab=no miscreant on 3=no Iackeys=slow start. Then play minions they have trouble killing, like anything over 5 etc. It's not that hard it just takes some thinking. Also. Swamp ooze. Use it.
I feel like putting Bonemare, PAtches, STB, Creeper and Giggles on that list is kind of disingenous.
Like sure, Rogue probably benefitted the most from them (not even all of them, STB was a Pirate WArrior staple more than anything) but the real problem was that they were used in pretty much any deck that could run them instead of in those built around them.
Also I think Druid has caused more nerfs at this point. I mean over the course of their existence about 1/3 of their class/basic set has been hit. We've gotten to a point where Druid has been nerfed so many times that some of them are even outdated by today'S standards and could easily be reverted (Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore)
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I have more troubles beating those insane bomb "I'm a retard" warrior than Rogue. If anything happens to Rogue, then Brawl has to leave with it. It such a bad designed card and everytime sets rotate out, it becomes soooo oppressive to play against.
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ironically Brawl has the lowest winrate by a wide margin in any control warrior deck.
It's just a poorly designed card but even removing brawl now wouldn't really fix the Warrior problem
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Start with 25 hp and a pop-up that chastises you for being a moop.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
The huge amount of writing skills you have is too difficult for us to handle, what kind of passion do you do in real life?
Why should Blizzard nerf Rogue?I play Rogue and lose every single game. This can be because I'm bad. But shouldn't a nerfable deck carry even bad players?
There has to be a flavour of the month. Always. It cycles. As paladin retires, rogue rises.
Depends on the time you look at the winrate. I guess, if you make a statistics nowadays, the winrate might actually be higher.
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Twitter: Twitter Account