I don't know. That sounds like curing a symptom instead of the cause situation. Sort of like how nerfing Grim Patron would still mean Warsong Commander would still be a nightmare waiting to happen later on.
Barnes has always been a mess of a card that would be either worthless or deadly. Eternal, meanwhile, requires a good deal of setup and is slower when you can't cheat out a big minion very early. It's also easier to find non-insane uses of Eternal, unlike Barnes. Thus I'd put the nerf on Barnes. Barnes should be a fun card that's bad to use.
not likely since Revive is still in the game as well. As long as Barnes stays the way it is Big Priest will forever be an issue. At this point in the game it's just not a healthy card.
the only thing I can see working is the concept that someone on here propose where Barnes summons a 1/1 actor that gains the card text of a minion in your deck (keeps the flavour of the card as well). Question is just how you would implement a summoned token that gains an effect upon summoning but remains a vanilla 1/1 otherwise
Still turn-3/4 Barnes in Spell Hunter is Broken. No single card should produce a 10/10 on the board so early, under no circumstances, in constructed.
But we also know that Barnes is not the only problem of Big Priest.
Overall, I think the token/resurrection issue needs a double nerf: Barnes, and Shadow Essence.
A mana increase of +(2) on both nerfed cards (increase stats on summoned copy if necessary) should solve the issue of a meme deck like Big Priest gone wrong + Spell Hunter.
(and Priest can already play Dragon and/or Reno in Wild, both strong but fair decks).
PS: I think we already have similar threads? Not that duplicates aren't the norm nowadays...
I feel that Barnes is ok from the point that its for me if one in 10 games brings out an 1/1 that brings out a 10/10. The problem for me is in the ressurection choices that Priest has and that the ''turn 3 Barnes, turn 4 eternal..'' is not an option. Because in the mean time, they can't do anything cause theur deck is full of removals.
But it is an issue only because it can revive something huge in the early turns.
If there were no copies to revive before late turns, servitude's efficienty would be wasted anyway. If Aggro/Tempo decks could systematically deal with a meme deck like Big Priest, the trend would fade out of meta, without being a serious problem for the other archetypes (Control/Combo).
I would prefer a nerf to Barnes than ES. Big Priest doesn't have a high enough winrate to deserve a nerf, the problem with the deck is that it can highroll very hard in early game. Barnes is the biggest culprit, so it should get nerfed.
Still turn-3/4 Barnes in Spell Hunter is Broken. No single card should produce a 10/10 on the board so early, under no circumstances, in constructed.
But we also know that Barnes is not the only problem of Big Priest.
Overall, I think the token/resurrection issue needs a double nerf: Barnes, and Shadow Essence.
A mana increase of +(2) on both nerfed cards (increase stats on summoned copy if necessary) should solve the issue of a meme deck like Big Priest gone wrong + Spell Hunter.
(and Priest can already play Dragon and/or Reno in Wild, both strong but fair decks).
PS: I think we already have similar threads? Not that duplicates aren't the norm nowadays...
But its OK for Paladin to play Thekel and a pair of Molten Giants on turn 3, right? Because even thought its a lots of stats, they are only 8/8's not 10/10's?
Moral of the story - if you want to play against only fair decks, do NOT play Wild.
Still turn-3/4 Barnes in Spell Hunter is Broken. No single card should produce a 10/10 on the board so early, under no circumstances, in constructed.
But we also know that Barnes is not the only problem of Big Priest.
Overall, I think the token/resurrection issue needs a double nerf: Barnes, and Shadow Essence.
A mana increase of +(2) on both nerfed cards (increase stats on summoned copy if necessary) should solve the issue of a meme deck like Big Priest gone wrong + Spell Hunter.
(and Priest can already play Dragon and/or Reno in Wild, both strong but fair decks).
PS: I think we already have similar threads? Not that duplicates aren't the norm nowadays...
Thank you for that, people tend to forget about Barnes in Hunter as well, now with the Master Call it is very easy to get him exactly out on 4 an high roll!
I said it before, in Spell hunter once you get rid of the 10/10 you get rid of it and it doesn't come back, while in Big Priest you can get up to 2 copies of it next turn using 4 mana only (4 mana summon two 10/10s that recruit 8/8s),and that in and out of itself is broken, regardless if it's turn 3 or 10 .
Barnes is a legendary like Lord Godfrey or Sunkeeper Tarim, and him having a strong effect is ok since you can include 1 copy of him, and even though he is a legendary card he has the same stats as some 1-mana-cheaper minions like Blackwald Pixie, so you would assume that the 1/1 copy should compensate for the legendary status .
STATS ARE IMPORTANT, the previous sentence is always getting overlooked when it comes to Barnes, since he can only put 4/5 stats on board (with a special case of 14/15 that requires immense deck restriction or incredible luck if you have more than 2 minions in the deck). The problem is not dealing with a big minion early on in the game, as we see in Evenlocks t4 8/8 or Shaman's t4 7/7 and 5/5 ,the problem lies in getting the same minions that died this game with the same stats for spells that cost less than 5 mana, let alone 2 mana and 4 mana choose the minion .
Take Anyfin Can Happen as an example, why aren't people complaining about it ?
1-takes more setup than 1 dead minion to be effective (needs 5 dead murlocs before becoming good) .
2-costs 10 mana, yet brings less stats (HP) on board than a 2 mana spell (assuming best case scenarios) making clearing the board the turn after much easier .
3-Barnes can be included for an occasional Old Murk Eye or any other Murloc, yet won't be broken because of no way (cheap way) to bring minions back immediately with full stats .
A very close example at how Barnes can become broken in a class that isn't priest is in a Beast Druid ?
Why you might ask ? Because of a similar Resurrect effect called Witching Hour ,3 mana Summon 7/7 Oondasta that kills a minion and summons Tyrantus from hand ,or maybe just resurrect Tyrantus himself with full stats, 1/1 can't be targeted isn't problematic nor a 1/1 Oondasta, it is the stupid cheap spells priced at 2, 3 and 4 that bring entire minions back with FULL STATS that are problematic .
Nerfing Barnes is the same as nerfing Aviana, and leaving Resurrect cards untouched is the same as leaving Juicy Psychemelon untouched, big mistakes .
I said it before, in Spell hunter once you get rid of the 10/10 you get rid of it and it doesn't come back, while in Big Priest you can get up to 2 copies of it next turn using 4 mana only (4 mana summon two 10/10s that recruit 8/8s),and that in and out of itself is broken, regardless if it's turn 3 or 10 .
Barnes is a legendary like Lord Godfrey or Sunkeeper Tarim, and him having a strong effect is ok since you can include 1 copy of him, and even though he is a legendary card he has the same stats as some 1-mana-cheaper minions like Blackwald Pixie, so you would assume that the 1/1 copy should compensate for the legendary status .
STATS ARE IMPORTANT, the previous sentence is always getting overlooked when it comes to Barnes, since he can only put 4/5 stats on board (with a special case of 14/15 that requires immense deck restriction or incredible luck if you have more than 2 minions in the deck). The problem is not dealing with a big minion early on in the game, as we see in Evenlocks t4 8/8 or Shaman's t4 7/7 and 5/5 ,the problem lies in getting the same minions that died this game with the same stats for spells that cost less than 5 mana, let alone 2 mana and 4 mana choose the minion .
Take Anyfin Can Happen as an example, why aren't people complaining about it ?
1-takes more setup than 1 dead minion to be effective (needs 5 dead murlocs before becoming good) .
2-costs 10 mana, yet brings less stats (HP) on board than a 2 mana spell (assuming best case scenarios) making clearing the board the turn after much easier .
3-Barnes can be included for an occasional Old Murk Eye or any other Murloc, yet won't be broken because of no way (cheap way) to bring minions back immediately with full stats .
A very close example at how Barnes can become broken in a class that isn't priest is in a Beast Druid ?
Why you might ask ? Because of a similar Resurrect effect called Witching Hour ,3 mana Summon 7/7 Oondasta that kills a minion and summons Tyrantus from hand ,or maybe just resurrect Tyrantus himself with full stats, 1/1 can't be targeted isn't problematic nor a 1/1 Oondasta, it is the stupid cheap spells priced at 2, 3 and 4 that bring entire minions back with FULL STATS that are problematic .
Nerfing Barnes is the same as nerfing Aviana, and leaving Resurrect cards untouched is the same as leaving Juicy Psychemelon untouched, big mistakes .
I have no clue what are you on about here you state such a weird arguments! Druid can rez his beasts 2 times max (4 if you want to play the odds of a lucky raven idol discover), and yes you can deal with a 10/10 against a hunter if you are lucky with ur hand but thats not the point!
The point is that barnes is such a high roll card that can win the game if you dont have an answer by turn 3. He needs to come out on turn 6 and his stats should suck even if he is "legendary", Alakir is a 3/5 8 mana and he is more "legendary" than Barnes.
Slowing barnes is a big deal but at the same time yes the rez effects need to be adjusted as well, ressurect should match witching hour at least and eternal servitude should be 6 mana as you get to choose the minion, and the spell stone can be 1/2/3 minions for 6 mana.
I said it before, in Spell hunter once you get rid of the 10/10 you get rid of it and it doesn't come back, while in Big Priest you can get up to 2 copies of it next turn using 4 mana only (4 mana summon two 10/10s that recruit 8/8s),and that in and out of itself is broken, regardless if it's turn 3 or 10 .
Barnes is a legendary like Lord Godfrey or Sunkeeper Tarim, and him having a strong effect is ok since you can include 1 copy of him, and even though he is a legendary card he has the same stats as some 1-mana-cheaper minions like Blackwald Pixie, so you would assume that the 1/1 copy should compensate for the legendary status .
STATS ARE IMPORTANT, the previous sentence is always getting overlooked when it comes to Barnes, since he can only put 4/5 stats on board (with a special case of 14/15 that requires immense deck restriction or incredible luck if you have more than 2 minions in the deck). The problem is not dealing with a big minion early on in the game, as we see in Evenlocks t4 8/8 or Shaman's t4 7/7 and 5/5 ,the problem lies in getting the same minions that died this game with the same stats for spells that cost less than 5 mana, let alone 2 mana and 4 mana choose the minion .
Take Anyfin Can Happen as an example, why aren't people complaining about it ?
1-takes more setup than 1 dead minion to be effective (needs 5 dead murlocs before becoming good) .
2-costs 10 mana, yet brings less stats (HP) on board than a 2 mana spell (assuming best case scenarios) making clearing the board the turn after much easier .
3-Barnes can be included for an occasional Old Murk Eye or any other Murloc, yet won't be broken because of no way (cheap way) to bring minions back immediately with full stats .
A very close example at how Barnes can become broken in a class that isn't priest is in a Beast Druid ?
Why you might ask ? Because of a similar Resurrect effect called Witching Hour ,3 mana Summon 7/7 Oondasta that kills a minion and summons Tyrantus from hand ,or maybe just resurrect Tyrantus himself with full stats, 1/1 can't be targeted isn't problematic nor a 1/1 Oondasta, it is the stupid cheap spells priced at 2, 3 and 4 that bring entire minions back with FULL STATS that are problematic .
Nerfing Barnes is the same as nerfing Aviana, and leaving Resurrect cards untouched is the same as leaving Juicy Psychemelon untouched, big mistakes .
The problem is it is extremely hard to remove a 10/10 on (4), in the average game. It can close the game by itself. On turn 4, with just 1 card (which you can also find on curve thanks to Master's Call).
For the same reason, you cannot compare Anyfin Can Happen, which is a turn-10 card, with a turn-4 effect.
There is an immense difference between OP stuff happening on turn 10, and OP stuff happening on turn 4.
Instead, one could deal with it, if it happened at least 2 turns later (and it would still be far above the curve: 14/15 worth of stats for (6) is still insane).
Mind me, I am not a fun of Resurrection mechanic as they are now, but the problem is WHAT they can resurrect, and WHEN, not HOW much for...
Neither barnes nor eternal servitude will be nerfed. Making wild intolerable is not a mistake but a conscious decision. If wild is enjoyable, then the already shitty standard will be even less attractive. Moreover wild requires less packs for old players and there almost 0 new players getting into the game, so you get the picture..
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I was wondering if instead of a barnes nerf, they can nerf eternal servitude to 6 mana. I think that would solve the problem of big priest. Opinions?
No
I don't know. That sounds like curing a symptom instead of the cause situation. Sort of like how nerfing Grim Patron would still mean Warsong Commander would still be a nightmare waiting to happen later on.
Barnes has always been a mess of a card that would be either worthless or deadly. Eternal, meanwhile, requires a good deal of setup and is slower when you can't cheat out a big minion very early. It's also easier to find non-insane uses of Eternal, unlike Barnes. Thus I'd put the nerf on Barnes. Barnes should be a fun card that's bad to use.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
not likely since Revive is still in the game as well. As long as Barnes stays the way it is Big Priest will forever be an issue. At this point in the game it's just not a healthy card.
the only thing I can see working is the concept that someone on here propose where Barnes summons a 1/1 actor that gains the card text of a minion in your deck (keeps the flavour of the card as well). Question is just how you would implement a summoned token that gains an effect upon summoning but remains a vanilla 1/1 otherwise
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Still turn-3/4 Barnes in Spell Hunter is Broken. No single card should produce a 10/10 on the board so early, under no circumstances, in constructed.
But we also know that Barnes is not the only problem of Big Priest.
Overall, I think the token/resurrection issue needs a double nerf: Barnes, and Shadow Essence.
A mana increase of +(2) on both nerfed cards (increase stats on summoned copy if necessary) should solve the issue of a meme deck like Big Priest gone wrong + Spell Hunter.
(and Priest can already play Dragon and/or Reno in Wild, both strong but fair decks).
PS: I think we already have similar threads? Not that duplicates aren't the norm nowadays...
I feel that Barnes is ok from the point that its for me if one in 10 games brings out an 1/1 that brings out a 10/10. The problem for me is in the ressurection choices that Priest has and that the ''turn 3 Barnes, turn 4 eternal..'' is not an option. Because in the mean time, they can't do anything cause theur deck is full of removals.
I know that Big Priest is a trend now but i talked especially about eternal servitude. Sorry if someone said it already and i didn't see it.
Eternal Servitude is a very efficient card.
But it is an issue only because it can revive something huge in the early turns.
If there were no copies to revive before late turns, servitude's efficienty would be wasted anyway. If Aggro/Tempo decks could systematically deal with a meme deck like Big Priest, the trend would fade out of meta, without being a serious problem for the other archetypes (Control/Combo).
I would prefer a nerf to Barnes than ES. Big Priest doesn't have a high enough winrate to deserve a nerf, the problem with the deck is that it can highroll very hard in early game. Barnes is the biggest culprit, so it should get nerfed.
But its OK for Paladin to play Thekel and a pair of Molten Giants on turn 3, right? Because even thought its a lots of stats, they are only 8/8's not 10/10's?
Moral of the story - if you want to play against only fair decks, do NOT play Wild.
Barnes 4 manas 3/4 Battlecry "Put a 1/1 actor in your hand".
1/1 actor 0 mana Battlecry "Gain the card text of a random minion in your deck".
When ressurrected is just a 1/1 vanilla.
Talking about Big Priest related cards here. My Hunter argument was incidental with the main topic.
I DID NOT SAY Thekal + Giant is ok (btw, it is a 2-card combo). I didn't mention it. Do not attribute to me words I did not utter.
OT about your moral: go back and look at Naga Sea Witch nerf.
Thank you for that, people tend to forget about Barnes in Hunter as well, now with the Master Call it is very easy to get him exactly out on 4 an high roll!
Barnes should be made 6 mana 3/3
You only mentioned 10/10's. Moltens are only 8/8's. Peaceful critters.
I mentioned Priest-related stuff. ffs. Open a thread about Thekal-Giants and I'll join that discussion. Peace.
I said it before, in Spell hunter once you get rid of the 10/10 you get rid of it and it doesn't come back, while in Big Priest you can get up to 2 copies of it next turn using 4 mana only (4 mana summon two 10/10s that recruit 8/8s),and that in and out of itself is broken, regardless if it's turn 3 or 10 .
Barnes is a legendary like Lord Godfrey or Sunkeeper Tarim, and him having a strong effect is ok since you can include 1 copy of him, and even though he is a legendary card he has the same stats as some 1-mana-cheaper minions like Blackwald Pixie, so you would assume that the 1/1 copy should compensate for the legendary status .
STATS ARE IMPORTANT, the previous sentence is always getting overlooked when it comes to Barnes, since he can only put 4/5 stats on board (with a special case of 14/15 that requires immense deck restriction or incredible luck if you have more than 2 minions in the deck). The problem is not dealing with a big minion early on in the game, as we see in Evenlocks t4 8/8 or Shaman's t4 7/7 and 5/5 ,the problem lies in getting the same minions that died this game with the same stats for spells that cost less than 5 mana, let alone 2 mana and 4 mana choose the minion .
Take Anyfin Can Happen as an example, why aren't people complaining about it ?
1-takes more setup than 1 dead minion to be effective (needs 5 dead murlocs before becoming good) .
2-costs 10 mana, yet brings less stats (HP) on board than a 2 mana spell (assuming best case scenarios) making clearing the board the turn after much easier .
3-Barnes can be included for an occasional Old Murk Eye or any other Murloc, yet won't be broken because of no way (cheap way) to bring minions back immediately with full stats .
A very close example at how Barnes can become broken in a class that isn't priest is in a Beast Druid ?
Why you might ask ? Because of a similar Resurrect effect called Witching Hour ,3 mana Summon 7/7 Oondasta that kills a minion and summons Tyrantus from hand ,or maybe just resurrect Tyrantus himself with full stats, 1/1 can't be targeted isn't problematic nor a 1/1 Oondasta, it is the stupid cheap spells priced at 2, 3 and 4 that bring entire minions back with FULL STATS that are problematic .
Nerfing Barnes is the same as nerfing Aviana, and leaving Resurrect cards untouched is the same as leaving Juicy Psychemelon untouched, big mistakes .
I have no clue what are you on about here you state such a weird arguments! Druid can rez his beasts 2 times max (4 if you want to play the odds of a lucky raven idol discover), and yes you can deal with a 10/10 against a hunter if you are lucky with ur hand but thats not the point!
The point is that barnes is such a high roll card that can win the game if you dont have an answer by turn 3. He needs to come out on turn 6 and his stats should suck even if he is "legendary", Alakir is a 3/5 8 mana and he is more "legendary" than Barnes.
Slowing barnes is a big deal but at the same time yes the rez effects need to be adjusted as well, ressurect should match witching hour at least and eternal servitude should be 6 mana as you get to choose the minion, and the spell stone can be 1/2/3 minions for 6 mana.
Another nerf thread, jesus. Let's just nerf every card that you lose to, that's a better idea.
The problem is it is extremely hard to remove a 10/10 on (4), in the average game. It can close the game by itself. On turn 4, with just 1 card (which you can also find on curve thanks to Master's Call).
For the same reason, you cannot compare Anyfin Can Happen, which is a turn-10 card, with a turn-4 effect.
There is an immense difference between OP stuff happening on turn 10, and OP stuff happening on turn 4.
Instead, one could deal with it, if it happened at least 2 turns later (and it would still be far above the curve: 14/15 worth of stats for (6) is still insane).
Mind me, I am not a fun of Resurrection mechanic as they are now, but the problem is WHAT they can resurrect, and WHEN, not HOW much for...
Neither barnes nor eternal servitude will be nerfed. Making wild intolerable is not a mistake but a conscious decision. If wild is enjoyable, then the already shitty standard will be even less attractive. Moreover wild requires less packs for old players and there almost 0 new players getting into the game, so you get the picture..