Having an acceptable minion out on your turn after you cleared a board is actually a big deal. Why do you think Ravaging Ghoul us in every control warrior deck?
And having a more powerful board clear in priest is an even bigger deal than Warlock. The class has it good with Defile so STFU about Warlock.
Nobody is talking about Warlock here, Sinbad, so put your knickers back on. There was a comparison about Duskbreaker's affect to that of a Hellfire effect.
The comparison is legitimate since the cost is identical with a 3-damage AoE; the difference being a 3/3 minion on the board which can "maybe" do 3 to the opponent, or the guaranteed 3 dmg to the opponent when cast.
So you admit to see the difference, but when it doesn't prove your point, it becomes irrelevant? Your understanding of this game is so far off...honestly, what are you trying to do here?
Plenty of people seem to think that the iterations of Dragon Priest most likely to see play after the new set launches will be value-based control decks. It's difficult to see how any value deck can hope to compete against the two decks which have currently squeezed value-oriented strategies out of the meta-game - Jade Druid and Razakus are both gaining new toys in the upcoming expansion, and it's entirely possible that neither deck will see appreciably less play until both are simply eliminated by rotation next spring. MR Dragon Priest seems much more likely - it isn't playing a long-term value game that matches poorly against the value-denying decks on ladder, and it might be fast enough to avoid the single copy of Psychic Scream that Razakus will be running, allowing it to win before Razakus stabilizes.
I suppose we'll know the answers in two weeks, give or take.
Having an acceptable minion out on your turn after you cleared a board is actually a big deal. Why do you think Ravaging Ghoul us in every control warrior deck?
And having a more powerful board clear in priest is an even bigger deal than Warlock. The class has it good with Defile so STFU about Warlock.
Nobody is talking about Warlock here, Sinbad, so put your knickers back on. There was a comparison about Duskbreaker's affect to that of a Hellfire effect.
The comparison is legitimate since the cost is identical with a 3-damage AoE; the difference being a 3/3 minion on the board which can "maybe" do 3 to the opponent, or the guaranteed 3 dmg to the opponent when cast.
So you admit to see the difference, but when it doesn't prove your point, it becomes irrelevant? Your understanding of this game is so far off...honestly, what are you trying to do here?
Hey look! Trolly McTrollFace is back! haven't seen you in a while! Is your ban over now then?
In any case, like I pointed out, it does prove my point. Considerably well in fact. If you don't have the understanding or ability to see that, that's on you, friend. I'm not here to hold your hand and explain how this game works. Anyway, I won't be replying to your embarrassing troll-posts anymore, kiddo. It's not like they provide any worthwhile insights anyway. Bye.
Temporus doesn't seem like a garbage at all. If you certain that you can kill opponent in two turns and he is not - its a game-winning card.
There are classes that doesn't have heavy burst from hand, or crazy armor gain. So i see Temporus being playable not only in dragon decks but also combo decks with Raza the Chained and/or Prophet Velen
If you are certain that you can kill your opponent in two turns, you are not playing a minion based deck relying on board control. Because he has two turns to kill you or at least clear your board and put up some defense. But if you are playing a combo deck, then you should go for a OTK since you don't need to give your opponent the chance to kill you on his two turns. And Velen is part of such a OTK. Why would you offer your opponent a way out then.
No salt - but I'm interested in hearing about how Hellfire has broken the game so far....?
Duskbreaker has a hard-limiting "cost" and can't even hit face either...
That's a bad analogy if I've ever seen one.
1. The face damage in hellfire is a downside
2. Duskbreaker gives a 3/3 body, which is huge on turn 4
I have to disagree (partly). If you are going for damage (and reach for example), then 3 to the face is (in my opinion) better than a 3/3 which is easily removed in most decks these days. But admittedly that could be considered more of an advantage in the later stages of the game. Perhaps on a 4-drop this would be better. However, removing your own minions as well (for a dragon deck) is a horrible downside. (which obviously would happen with Hellfire as well, of course, but I meant as a general thing).
I do agree that self-face-damage is a bad thing of course - but that's a small price to pay for the bonus of reach damage.
Plenty of people seem to think that the iterations of Dragon Priest most likely to see play after the new set launches will be value-based control decks. It's difficult to see how any value deck can hope to compete against the two decks which have currently squeezed value-oriented strategies out of the meta-game - Jade Druid and Razakus are both gaining new toys in the upcoming expansion, and it's entirely possible that neither deck will see appreciably less play until both are simply eliminated by rotation next spring. MR Dragon Priest seems much more likely - it isn't playing a long-term value game that matches poorly against the value-denying decks on ladder, and it might be fast enough to avoid the single copy of Psychic Scream that Razakus will be running, allowing it to win before Razakus stabilizes.
I suppose we'll know the answers in two weeks, give or take.
I think that Dragon priest can generate good tempo in the Midgame. Starting with a board clear on turn 4 (trading minions if necessary and remove everything from the opposite side), you can curve out pretty well. And if Jade goes nuts on the board with either Jade Golems or a huge spreading plague, you can use psychic scream to reset the board. And dilute his draws with below average minions (6/6 for 6 or a 1/5 for 2). But you are right, we will get our answers.
Plenty of people seem to think that the iterations of Dragon Priest most likely to see play after the new set launches will be value-based control decks. It's difficult to see how any value deck can hope to compete against the two decks which have currently squeezed value-oriented strategies out of the meta-game - Jade Druid and Razakus are both gaining new toys in the upcoming expansion, and it's entirely possible that neither deck will see appreciably less play until both are simply eliminated by rotation next spring. MR Dragon Priest seems much more likely - it isn't playing a long-term value game that matches poorly against the value-denying decks on ladder, and it might be fast enough to avoid the single copy of Psychic Scream that Razakus will be running, allowing it to win before Razakus stabilizes.
I suppose we'll know the answers in two weeks, give or take.
Completely agree with this. Sadly, as a control player from the start, I simply gave up on trying control for extended periods of time while Jade Druid is present.
Damage to the opposite face is absolutely irrelevantfor board control. And Duskbreaker is a board control minion. Hellfire is played against aggro or midrange on curve to reset the board. The same will be done with duskbreaker, except that you also gain initiative with a 3/3 dragon on board.
Damage to the opposite face is absolutely irrelevantfor board control.
That's not the actual argument.
If you go back to the original OP, the statement was:
3 dmg aoe is like gameover
And that this was a gamebreaking thing, somehow.
So the actual argument was in querying how an existing 3-damage AoE for 4 mana (hence Hellfire) was game breaking and "gameover". The fact is that Hellfire has even MORE potential for ending a game than Duskbreaker does, so it would HAVE to be considered more powerful in this respect.
Sadly, the actual argument got sidetracked by people attempting to compare teh two cards in an Apples vs Oranges sense (which ironically glossed over the point of the original statement. Quite the effective strawman....
Damage to the opposite face is absolutely irrelevantfor board control.
That's not the actual argument.
If you go back to the original OP, the statement was:
3 dmg aoe is like gameover
And that this was a gamebreaking thing, somehow.
So the actual argument was in querying how an existing 3-damage AoE for 4 mana (hence Hellfire) was game breaking and "gameover". The fact is that Hellfire has even MORE potential for ending a game than Duskbreaker does, so it would HAVE to be considered more powerful in this respect.
Sadly, the actual argument got sidetracked by people attempting to compare teh two cards in an Apples vs Oranges sense (which ironically glossed over the point of the original statement. Quite the effective strawman....
It is pretty obvious that OP refers to Duskbreaker as a card and implicitly to the tempo swing it provides. He even mentions the body. If you choose to ignore it and compare it to hellfire, it is no strawman at all if people point the difference out to you. After all, it was your misunderstanding.
Although I agree with you that 3 damage on turn 4 is not "gameover". Even not with a 3/3 body.
Damage to the opposite face is absolutely irrelevantfor board control.
That's not the actual argument.
If you go back to the original OP, the statement was:
3 dmg aoe is like gameover
And that this was a gamebreaking thing, somehow.
So the actual argument was in querying how an existing 3-damage AoE for 4 mana (hence Hellfire) was game breaking and "gameover". The fact is that Hellfire has even MORE potential for ending a game than Duskbreaker does, so it would HAVE to be considered more powerful in this respect.
Sadly, the actual argument got sidetracked by people attempting to compare teh two cards in an Apples vs Oranges sense (which ironically glossed over the point of the original statement. Quite the effective strawman....
It is pretty obvious that OP refers to Duskbreaker as a card and implicitly to the tempo swing it provides. He even mentions the body. If you choose to ignore it and compare it to hellfire, it is no strawman at all if people point the difference out to you. After all, it was your misunderstanding.
Although I agree with you that 3 damage on turn 4 is not "gameover". Even not with a 3/3 body.
It is indeed a strawman argument when a completely unrealistic supposition is put forward and then my points are disregarded based on that fallacy. But regardless of that, the fact remains that the whole point of my initial argument was that a 3 damage AoE is not (as was suggested) a game breaking effect and does not signify "gameover" in any way. This was logically backed up with an example of a 4-mana 3-dmg AoE card that is often played and does not provide said "game breaking" outcome.
If people choose to misunderstand the argument and attempt to compare the two cards as if that is the argument, that's up to them. I've made my point.
Temporus is garbage in the dragon priest archetype, and if you manage to use the 2 turns to kill your opponent, you are probably winning anyway, making Temporus a win-more card with potential to throw the game. He could be used in some combo deck like Razakus though.
It is indeed a strawman argument when a completely unrealistic supposition is put forward and then my points are disregarded based on that fallacy. But regardless of that, the fact remains that the whole point of my initial argument was that a 3 damage AoE is not (as was suggested) a game breaking effect and does not signify "gameover" in any way. This was logically backed up with an example of a 4-mana 3-dmg AoE card that is often played and does not provide said "game breaking" outcome.
If people choose to misunderstand the argument and attempt to compare the two cards as if that is the argument, that's up to them. I've made my point.
How is that not broken? 3 damage aoe is not even worth 4 mana, Hellfire is undercosted because it hurts your own board and face. 3 damage aoe to enemies in vanila without absurd powercreep costs like 5-6 mana (5-5.5 precisely), just look at Flamestrike and Consecration
I just thought what if priest right now got their Duskbreaker. Imagine i'm playing hunter or murlock midrange paladin. Duskbreaker immediately kills a whole bunch of minions when played, and establish a board presence for priest just from hand. It is absolutely insane.
It kills Bearshark for free, it kills Houndmaster, a 4-mana drop for free, it kills every single 2 drop, 1 mana 1/3 class drops like Mana Wyrm and Voidwalker, Spirit Wolf, Flametongue Totem it anihilates zoo decks, murlocks and any type of decks that focus on early minion combat.
It just ignores and neglects any descision opponent made with early trades. Blizzard said they promote minion combat. This card tells me the opposite. 2 damage aoe is another story, but 3 damage is just too high. You can't just print card which takes out 1,2,3 and even some 4 drops just with battlecry, attached to a decent body.
and don't tell me something like "what if you doesn't have dragon" it sounds funny. This requirement is just nothing for dragon decks, unless you are in topdeck mode (and that is rarely the case with dragon priest, since they got pretty sweet card generation options)
not to mention that as priest, especialy with that card in hand you can pretty safely wait until turn 4 especialy with a coin and start developing midrange minions from that point. Because of heropower during first 3-4 turns and cards like Potion of Madness and swp
Even without any removal at all, you can feel safe about it anyway, since the moment you play Duskbreaker every single minion of opponent will die to 3 dmg aoe. you completely take over the board.
On paper now with the cards seen, dragon priest pretty much hard counters all these decks, Prince/Tempo rogue, prince/zoo lock, aggro druid, secret mage, murloc pally, midrange hunter, pirate/prince warrior...that is ALOT of decks where it's dragon priest is going to have at least 55% win ratio. The scary thing is that Big priest or Highlander priest can also possibly incorporate this card into their deck as well. Big priest already run Ysera
Blizz is just so fking dumb in giving priest all the AOEs in the world...it's going to become impossible to play any aggro/midrange decks against them.
So you admit to see the difference, but when it doesn't prove your point, it becomes irrelevant? Your understanding of this game is so far off...honestly, what are you trying to do here?
Plenty of people seem to think that the iterations of Dragon Priest most likely to see play after the new set launches will be value-based control decks. It's difficult to see how any value deck can hope to compete against the two decks which have currently squeezed value-oriented strategies out of the meta-game - Jade Druid and Razakus are both gaining new toys in the upcoming expansion, and it's entirely possible that neither deck will see appreciably less play until both are simply eliminated by rotation next spring. MR Dragon Priest seems much more likely - it isn't playing a long-term value game that matches poorly against the value-denying decks on ladder, and it might be fast enough to avoid the single copy of Psychic Scream that Razakus will be running, allowing it to win before Razakus stabilizes.
I suppose we'll know the answers in two weeks, give or take.
Is your ban over now then?
Anyway, I won't be replying to your embarrassing troll-posts anymore, kiddo. It's not like they provide any worthwhile insights anyway.
Bye.
Fuck cubelock
If you are going for damage (and reach for example), then 3 to the face is (in my opinion) better than a 3/3 which is easily removed in most decks these days. But admittedly that could be considered more of an advantage in the later stages of the game. Perhaps on a 4-drop this would be better. However, removing your own minions as well (for a dragon deck) is a horrible downside. (which obviously would happen with Hellfire as well, of course, but I meant as a general thing).
You can't stop the signal.
Damage to the opposite face is absolutely irrelevant for board control. And Duskbreaker is a board control minion. Hellfire is played against aggro or midrange on curve to reset the board. The same will be done with duskbreaker, except that you also gain initiative with a 3/3 dragon on board.
And that this was a gamebreaking thing, somehow.
But regardless of that, the fact remains that the whole point of my initial argument was that a 3 damage AoE is not (as was suggested) a game breaking effect and does not signify "gameover" in any way. This was logically backed up with an example of a 4-mana 3-dmg AoE card that is often played and does not provide said "game breaking" outcome.
Temporus is garbage in the dragon priest archetype, and if you manage to use the 2 turns to kill your opponent, you are probably winning anyway, making Temporus a win-more card with potential to throw the game. He could be used in some combo deck like Razakus though.
For warlock it is, wouldn't be for priest.
Dude you don't do early trades with Hunter. Face is the place.
not to mention that as priest, especialy with that card in hand you can pretty safely wait until turn 4 especialy with a coin and start developing midrange minions from that point. Because of heropower during first 3-4 turns and cards like Potion of Madness and swp
Even without any removal at all, you can feel safe about it anyway, since the moment you play Duskbreaker every single minion of opponent will die to 3 dmg aoe. you completely take over the board.
On paper now with the cards seen, dragon priest pretty much hard counters all these decks, Prince/Tempo rogue, prince/zoo lock, aggro druid, secret mage, murloc pally, midrange hunter, pirate/prince warrior...that is ALOT of decks where it's dragon priest is going to have at least 55% win ratio. The scary thing is that Big priest or Highlander priest can also possibly incorporate this card into their deck as well. Big priest already run Ysera
Blizz is just so fking dumb in giving priest all the AOEs in the world...it's going to become impossible to play any aggro/midrange decks against them.