Well, at least we got the "watching" acknowledgement pretty quickly from Blizzard. Only thing now - a week may not be enough to declare it's a problem, but six weeks to "watch" and another six to "schedule in the next patch" is far too long. I'm already having a miserable play experience when it should be the "honeymoon period" of a next expansion; I'd like to play and enjoy myself without waiting three months for them to make changes.
Made an account just to post here. The amount of clueless posts on this thread is too high (I'm talking to you aswell OP). On one side there are edgy plebs abusing the current overpowered tactic and defending it with all their fury and on the other crying aggro deck plebs that abused the previous overpowered tactic and can't comprehend why winning isn't served on a plate anymore.
Jade druid is broken right now that is correct. But the only real problems are Innervate and Ultimate infestation.
Either rotate out Innervate in the next hotfix patch or nerf Ultimate Infestation to something like draw 3 cards, summon a 6/6 ghoul and gain 6 armor. 5 card draw is just way too strong.
Thing is that Jade Idol isn't really a win condition for them and is easily countered with Skulking Geist.
How can Innervate be the problem? Nobody complained about it before this meta, so that can't be it.
The problem is an overall synergy that Innervate just happens to now be a part of. Once this all rotates out, everybody will go back to not caring about Innervate.
Innervate has been complained about since release. Turn 1 Yeti used to be the ultimate power play. Heck, it has been a part of every druid deck because it has always been so powerful.
Made an account just to post here. The amount of clueless posts on this thread is too high (I'm talking to you aswell OP). On one side there are edgy plebs abusing the current overpowered tactic and defending it with all their fury and on the other crying aggro deck plebs that abused the previous overpowered tactic and can't comprehend why winning isn't served on a plate anymore.
Jade druid is broken right now that is correct. But the only real problems are Innervate and Ultimate infestation.
Either rotate out Innervate in the next hotfix patch or nerf Ultimate Infestation to something like draw 3 cards, summon a 6/6 ghoul and gain 6 armor. 5 card draw is just way too strong.
Thing is that Jade Idol isn't really a win condition for them and is easily countered with Skulking Geist.
How can Innervate be the problem? Nobody complained about it before this meta, so that can't be it.
The problem is an overall synergy that Innervate just happens to now be a part of. Once this all rotates out, everybody will go back to not caring about Innervate.
Innervate has been complained about since release. Turn 1 Yeti used to be the ultimate power play. Heck, it has been a part of every druid deck because it has always been so powerful.
''How can Innervate be the problem? Nobody complained about it before this meta, so that can't be it.''
What a terrible noob call, you clearly know nothing about this game sorry haha. Innervate is a problem, I don't see the current druid being TOO overpowered, but it is a bit too powerful for sure. If we fixed innervates to HOF and fixed Infestation to less card draw, and malfurion to 8 mana, I think it would still be a strong deck but totally fair.
Without idols, druid only have 7 cards to get max of 8/8 golem with aya, and that not enough, so yea, idols are the win condition for Jade Druid, and the infestation is nothing for a Jade Druid w/o idols
How can Innervate be the problem? Nobody complained about it before this meta, so that can't be it.
The problem is an overall synergy that Innervate just happens to now be a part of. Once this all rotates out, everybody will go back to not caring about Innervate.
Innervate has been complained about since release. Turn 1 Yeti used to be the ultimate power play. Heck, it has been a part of every druid deck because it has always been so powerful.
''How can Innervate be the problem? Nobody complained about it before this meta, so that can't be it.''
What a terrible noob call, you clearly know nothing about this game sorry haha. Innervate is a problem, I don't see the current druid being TOO overpowered, but it is a bit too powerful for sure. If we fixed innervates to HOF and fixed Infestation to less card draw, and malfurion to 8 mana, I think it would still be a strong deck but totally fair.
Sure, people have complained about Innervate, but droves of people weren't calling for the card to be nerfed/banned/rotated/whatever like they are now.
In fact, if you look at this post from last month, most of the replies are people defending the card as not OP.
There are plenty of posts on these forums which call for a nerf, but none of them saw any traction up until this week.
I would argue most people never truly cared much about the card until (A) this meta and (B) Reynad's YouTube video.
Innervate has always been a good card, but it's the current card synergies which puts it over the top. All of Druid's weaknesses have been nullified in this expansion. Where Innervate used to be a potential dead draw, Druid no longer runs out of cards to play with it.
P.S. - On another note, I agree Ultimate Infestation is broken AF, but I believe reducing the card draw is actually a buff -- maybe not to the first one, but definitely to the second one (which is often unplayable due to a full hand or empty deck). But, that discussion is being beaten to death in other threads already.
Playing cards that are way above their power level will always be a problem in this game. Ramping like a Druid does will always be a problem. Same goes for the overload mechanic for shaman.
Spreading Plague might actually be the worst offender, as it punishes flood-strategies, which would otherwise counter ramping. 20+ health of meat wall is hard to get through! Nerf those taunts to 1-3s or something. The 5 cards from UI is a bit retarded too, but druids woud have a much harder time getting to 10 without SP being so strong.
At least the druid mirrors can be quite interresting, and there are a lot of ways to build the decks.
Spreading Plague might actually be the worst offender, as it punishes flood-strategies, which would otherwise counter ramping. 20+ health of meat wall is hard to get through! Nerf those taunts to 1-3s or something. The 5 cards from UI is a bit retarded too, but druids woud have a much harder time getting to 10 without SP being so strong.
At least the druid mirrors can be quite interresting, and there are a lot of ways to build the decks.
I tend to agree here. I don't like UI... I think it is broken as heck, but Spreading Plague is far too efficient... it's like giving priests hex.
Look at the comparable card in a class that has this as a theme, Protect the King, which is completely abysmal.
Spreading Plague is one of the most effective cards ever printed in Hearthstone, close to rivalling mad scientist.
I personally had troubles like most of us against Druids, but eventually came up with a Rogue deck who beats them pretty easy if played well and that let me reach rank 5 this month. Will try to hit legend again if I'll have time to.
Nobody seems to ask what is wrong with the quality of card design. What is wrong with the philosophy behind printing cards.Time and again the meta is in dire situation resulting into a constant state of imbalance and asymmetry, coined as 'fine' by the always present pro-Brode punditry on fora like these.
Seen over expansions Brode and consort proof not to be able and simply incompetent to print a symmetric, balanced ranked meta.Every Druid build that you can think of now is Tier 1 or better, Not strategy wins, but simplistic brokenness or mindless aggression. All this is simple a sign that Brode and consort are not up for the task.
We have come to accept that the quality of card design is unprofessional, below average and simply a result of a lack of counterpower unable to force them to do a better job. I've always wondered if there is any sense in those 'funny' vids where the Lynch king visited Blizzard, being send off for incompetence. Well if pirate warrior, quest rogue and now the Druid disaster is proof of quality there is much to be wished for. Just wondering if these vids were made because they knew thing would go berserk.
And as always the pro-Brode punditry (selfproclaimed or not) come rushing in with every calamity to reassure you that everything will be fine. Brode's henchmen - lets call them by name: TheRealmalfurions The Iandakars and the Tze's [haven't seen him lately-fired?] - will always tell you that you (like the Lynch king) don't know sh*t and that Brode is the man, knowing what he's doing. Well if he knows, he's really good in creating disaster-meta's for out-game reasons.
The problem is not you. The problem is Brode and consort.
You know what dude. If you think the state of the game is that bad get out while you still have time. I choose not to cry over this stuff as much as you seem to do. Just because I urge patience doesn't mean I am Ben Brode's henchman. It means that I know that this kind of stuff is inevitable in a game of Hearthstone's scale and I urge patience, because if the situation gets truly bad the devs will fix it. I am sure that you would do a much better job at balancing the game. Talk is cheap, and people like you are experts on it. Again if you find it so annoying that the game is so bad/unbalanced get out, stop coming here, whining like a little baby, because his favorite toy doesn't work and leveling personal attacks when you know nothing. I keep seeing you come back at this site to cry a little more every expansion. Seems to me like you should get yourself a life if you don't like the current situation and you can't be patient enough to let the devs handle, you know maybe stop playing the game for a while (I am sure that will alleviate the salt levels).
I didn't complain about Pirate Warrior, didn't complain about Quest Rogue (even though I was glad with the change since I enjoy being to go past turn 6 in games) and I certainly see no reason to make a very big deal of Jade Druid yet. I did complain about Midrange Shaman, because it was a problem for so long, but I don't think that drastic measures should be taken so quickly and the devs have already confirmed they're looking into the situation, however, due to external factors like HCT, they can't just introduce balance changes on a whim. Unlike you I just choose to be calm about this, because getting worked up over the state of the game so soon in the expansion isn't something I do.
To conclude, if you don't like the game or the so-called Ben Brode and consort, get out while you still can, don't let Hearthstone ruin your life. In fact, I am more triggered by children like you who have nothing better to do with their lives than whine about a game that they clearly don't want to play anymore (I mean I don't remember the last expansion when you haven't complained) over a game's balancing issues when at the end of the day you can just stop playing for a while or stop playing altogether.
We have this every expansion. After Karazhan it was only shaman and mage, during Un'goro it was only Rogue and Paladin, during Mean Streets it was only Druid and Warlock.
Well, that's some alternative history to me. Even during Karazhan's shamanstone peak, shamans were globally around 15% of the ladder, and similar in the higher ranks/legend. Meanstreets had 17% of all decks being pirate warrior, and in Un'goro nearly every played deck was 10% of the meta with at best a peak towards 15% on a single deck.
Right now 35% of ladder is druid, which creeps up towards rank 1, where 45% of the played decks are druid. This is not even comparable to the shaman days at this point.
Of course for a more accurate measure we will need to wait for the Report and not the Data Reaper Live, but the devs have already confirmed they are discussing potential nerfs (on Reddit), but again I think that you should be warned that it isn't very likely changes will be made before the next stage of the HCT due to pro players having to lock down their picks and the like so a change is likely to take a while even if they decide on what nerfs are necessary.
Edit: I updated the Midrange Shaman Peak link since I provided the wrong one.
Im so f*cking annoyed about jade druid, whenever I see one and am at the point in the game I realize there is no way I can beat him anymore, I just rope every turn and draw the game as much as possible.
Which is pretty easy with a control mage running a lot of freeze, my record was a ~50 minute match.
I know that might not be fair to the player, since Im sure not all of them are greedy netdeckers, but this is just something that nags after the 20th match of the day vs the same fucking deck which is literally unbeatable against half the deck archetypes.
I'm playing Control Mage and having roughly 80% WR against Jade Druid. With Skulking Geist coming in right time, and Hex Aya, their jade golem will stop growing at 7/7, (I even managed to win after 13/13 due to Skulking Geist at btm deck).
Overall Skulking Geist is the only way Control decks can win against Jade Druid
Spreading Plague might actually be the worst offender, as it punishes flood-strategies, which would otherwise counter ramping. 20+ health of meat wall is hard to get through! Nerf those taunts to 1-3s or something. The 5 cards from UI is a bit retarded too, but druids woud have a much harder time getting to 10 without SP being so strong.
At least the druid mirrors can be quite interresting, and there are a lot of ways to build the decks.
I tend to agree here. I don't like UI... I think it is broken as heck, but Spreading Plague is far too efficient... it's like giving priests hex.
Look at the comparable card in a class that has this as a theme, Protect the King, which is completely abysmal.
Spreading Plague is one of the most effective cards ever printed in Hearthstone, close to rivalling mad scientist.
Another thing is that jade druid did not even need a buff, but still got a lot op OP cards this expansion. The question is not IF to nerf, but what and how.
okay, after playing for several hours i've changed my mind, Ultimate Infestation is so BROKEN, the main offender being drawing 5 cards... not to mention the high health minions that can be buffed with a lot of spells (aggro can't win) and the jades (control can't win).
that leaves only midrange decks being able to do something, but not much, because if you get to turn 10 the refill their hand and you can't win.
i had some succes with evolve-bloodlust shaman, but as i climbed the ladder, i found them unbeatable.
FYI I just faced druid 17 times in a row deranking from rank 2 to 8, I tried different stuff and the only thing that worked was a hilariously aggressive pirate warrior (he didn't draw spreading plague). This is seriously getting out of hand... EU Server btw
Nobody seems to ask what is wrong with the quality of card design. What is wrong with the philosophy behind printing cards.Time and again the meta is in dire situation resulting into a constant state of imbalance and asymmetry, coined as 'fine' by the always present pro-Brode punditry on fora like these.
Seen over expansions Brode and consort proof not to be able and simply incompetent to print a symmetric, balanced ranked meta.Every Druid build that you can think of now is Tier 1 or better, Not strategy wins, but simplistic brokenness or mindless aggression. All this is simple a sign that Brode and consort are not up for the task.
We have come to accept that the quality of card design is unprofessional, below average and simply a result of a lack of counterpower unable to force them to do a better job. I've always wondered if there is any sense in those 'funny' vids where the Lynch king visited Blizzard, being send off for incompetence. Well if pirate warrior, quest rogue and now the Druid disaster is proof of quality there is much to be wished for. Just wondering if these vids were made because they knew thing would go berserk.
And as always the pro-Brode punditry (selfproclaimed or not) come rushing in with every calamity to reassure you that everything will be fine. Brode's henchmen - lets call them by name: TheRealmalfurions The Iandakars and the Tze's [haven't seen him lately-fired?] - will always tell you that you (like the Lynch king) don't know sh*t and that Brode is the man, knowing what he's doing. Well if he knows, he's really good in creating disaster-meta's for out-game reasons.
The problem is not you. The problem is Brode and consort.
You know what dude. If you think the state of the game is that bad get out while you still have time. I choose not to cry over this stuff as much as you seem to do. Just because I urge patience doesn't mean I am Ben Brode's henchman. It means that I know that this kind of stuff is inevitable in a game of Hearthstone's scale and I urge patience, because if the situation gets truly bad the devs will fix it. I am sure that you would do a much better job at balancing the game. Talk is cheap, and people like you are experts on it. Again if you find it so annoying that the game is so bad/unbalanced get out, stop coming here, whining like a little baby, because his favorite toy doesn't work and leveling personal attacks when you know nothing. I keep seeing you come back at this site to cry a little more every expansion. Seems to me like you should get yourself a life if you don't like the current situation and you can't be patient enough to let the devs handle, you know maybe stop playing the game for a while (I am sure that will alleviate the salt levels).
I didn't complain about Pirate Warrior, didn't complain about Quest Rogue (even though I was glad with the change since I enjoy being to go past turn 6 in games) and I certainly see no reason to make a very big deal of Jade Druid yet. I did complain about Midrange Shaman, because it was a problem for so long, but I don't think that drastic measures should be taken so quickly and the devs have already confirmed they're looking into the situation, however, due to external factors like HCT, they can't just introduce balance changes on a whim. Unlike you I just choose to be calm about this, because getting worked up over the state of the game so soon in the expansion isn't something I do.
To conclude, if you don't like the game or the so-called Ben Brode and consort, get out while you still can, don't let Hearthstone ruin your life. In fact, I am more triggered by children like you who have nothing better to do with their lives than whine about a game that they clearly don't want to play anymore (I mean I don't remember the last expansion when you haven't complained) over a game's balancing issues when at the end of the day you can just stop playing for a while or stop playing altogether.
Spoken like a true henchman. Your arguments don't stick. Are you annoyed? Do you think Brode will fix this? Sure he will, after the earning are cashed. What is the problem with the fact that the must have seen this coming and still have the the audacity to let this expansion through. It's this disrespect for the players that is the problem. It is the way they handle 7 year olds. Fine by you, not by me. Stopping to play te game while it would be a major change for the better if Brode and consort were to be rotated out? Such a waste.
To conclude. Defending things that are corrupt makes an accomplish. That sticks. Don't mind me, I'll be keep playing the game. It is just that I voice the complains looking at the the multitude of salt threads - because of willful imbalanced card design - a little different, but always in a theoretical coherent way. I'm sorry if that bothers the hechmen.
I don't know what arguments you find to not stick, but I know that while some people have legitimate concerns and are pointing out what those are, your only argument ever has been how bad Brode and Co. are, in which case why do you even bother with the game? So long as they are the ones designing cards, things won't change. Thus I have to conclude you must be a real masochist or a troll to keep coming back here for more.
First of all, if you truly believe all that you have said (what with people defending corruption and all that), why do you continue to play the game and support this "corrupt" company, why give them your time and money if nothing is going to change? In fact, I would argue that it is your responsibility to be our champion in these dark times and say no to Team 5's oppression by leaving the game. This way you would inspire more people to leave the game by setting the example and you would truly punish Team 5's "corruption". Do you really believe there is willful imbalance? I don't and I think that Un'Goro is one of the best examples of that. I also acknowledge that the dev team isn't made from perfect human beings that will always get things right, whereas you clearly think differently. Again, its easy to judge other people's business, but unless you have designed a flawless card game before you can hardly be so adamant about the things you say. Disrespect for players? Do you really think they are trying to disrespect anyone? Given that they'd rather you feel better about their game and continue playing/supporting it because that's how the F2P model works?
I am sorry dude, but I think you have delved too deep into conspiracy theories and I have seen no argument coming from you so far. You speak of game imbalance, but balance in a card game isn't that easy to achieve, especially when you have a huge playerbase that can quickly find and exploit the strongest decks around. Besides, the devs have already posted on Reddit on this and talked about how they are considering nerfs to make to fix the situation so they are willing to change the situation they just choose to collect more data before making up their mind.
Well, at least we got the "watching" acknowledgement pretty quickly from Blizzard. Only thing now - a week may not be enough to declare it's a problem, but six weeks to "watch" and another six to "schedule in the next patch" is far too long. I'm already having a miserable play experience when it should be the "honeymoon period" of a next expansion; I'd like to play and enjoy myself without waiting three months for them to make changes.
CCGing since '98.
Yep remember if youre sick of the deck, just play it, drive the percentage up, and eventually the devs will be forced to fix it.
What a terrible noob call, you clearly know nothing about this game sorry haha. Innervate is a problem, I don't see the current druid being TOO overpowered, but it is a bit too powerful for sure. If we fixed innervates to HOF and fixed Infestation to less card draw, and malfurion to 8 mana, I think it would still be a strong deck but totally fair.
Without idols, druid only have 7 cards to get max of 8/8 golem with aya, and that not enough, so yea, idols are the win condition for Jade Druid, and the infestation is nothing for a Jade Druid w/o idols
You need to chill. And use Pirate Warrior.
"Nerf Paper," said Rock.
Playing cards that are way above their power level will always be a problem in this game. Ramping like a Druid does will always be a problem. Same goes for the overload mechanic for shaman.
Spreading Plague might actually be the worst offender, as it punishes flood-strategies, which would otherwise counter ramping. 20+ health of meat wall is hard to get through! Nerf those taunts to 1-3s or something. The 5 cards from UI is a bit retarded too, but druids woud have a much harder time getting to 10 without SP being so strong.
At least the druid mirrors can be quite interresting, and there are a lot of ways to build the decks.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I personally had troubles like most of us against Druids, but eventually came up with a Rogue deck who beats them pretty easy if played well and that let me reach rank 5 this month. Will try to hit legend again if I'll have time to.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
okay, after playing for several hours i've changed my mind, Ultimate Infestation is so BROKEN, the main offender being drawing 5 cards... not to mention the high health minions that can be buffed with a lot of spells (aggro can't win) and the jades (control can't win).
that leaves only midrange decks being able to do something, but not much, because if you get to turn 10 the refill their hand and you can't win.
i had some succes with evolve-bloodlust shaman, but as i climbed the ladder, i found them unbeatable.
you can't derank from rank 5...
I don't know what arguments you find to not stick, but I know that while some people have legitimate concerns and are pointing out what those are, your only argument ever has been how bad Brode and Co. are, in which case why do you even bother with the game? So long as they are the ones designing cards, things won't change. Thus I have to conclude you must be a real masochist or a troll to keep coming back here for more.
First of all, if you truly believe all that you have said (what with people defending corruption and all that), why do you continue to play the game and support this "corrupt" company, why give them your time and money if nothing is going to change? In fact, I would argue that it is your responsibility to be our champion in these dark times and say no to Team 5's oppression by leaving the game. This way you would inspire more people to leave the game by setting the example and you would truly punish Team 5's "corruption". Do you really believe there is willful imbalance? I don't and I think that Un'Goro is one of the best examples of that. I also acknowledge that the dev team isn't made from perfect human beings that will always get things right, whereas you clearly think differently. Again, its easy to judge other people's business, but unless you have designed a flawless card game before you can hardly be so adamant about the things you say. Disrespect for players? Do you really think they are trying to disrespect anyone? Given that they'd rather you feel better about their game and continue playing/supporting it because that's how the F2P model works?
I am sorry dude, but I think you have delved too deep into conspiracy theories and I have seen no argument coming from you so far. You speak of game imbalance, but balance in a card game isn't that easy to achieve, especially when you have a huge playerbase that can quickly find and exploit the strongest decks around. Besides, the devs have already posted on Reddit on this and talked about how they are considering nerfs to make to fix the situation so they are willing to change the situation they just choose to collect more data before making up their mind.