There will always be tier one decks, I'm fine with that. Some mechanics (force/roar, charge, spell burst, reno) are pretty annoying but its how HS is designed. MC is just broken though, there' s no defending it at this point.
Really, combo druid is plenty balanced, its really easy to get outvalued depending on draws and there's a good choice of decks that match up well with it. Taunts can save you more than with pally, a well timed loatheb can change things, heals can ruin their game plan, and druid has trouble dealing with a bigger board state since they really only have swipe and that's not a great sweep/clear option many times.
Blizzard has actually done a decent job creating a diverse meta finally, but we have that one secret pally deck simply dominating the distribution of constructed decks. Its undeniable at this point that its the new huntertaker where you just see the same damn thing far too often. I think it needs to go, will be interesting to see if they do anything and when and how.
I think "non-interactive" is mostly used as a term for "predictable action which can't be countered by the opponent". It has nothing to do with the board interactions. For example the freeze mage burst can only be delayed by Loatheb. It makes people feel helpless.
Ok I am starting to understand, though one way to counter crap on the board, is to put your own crap on the board. You can also use board clears. Priest, and freeze mage are in particular good against secret pally. It seems to me to be less an issue of people being helpless against mid-range druid and secret pally, and more an issue of people not willing to alter their decks or play different decks to deal with the power of these two decks.
I think "non-interactive" is mostly used as a term for "predictable action which can't be countered by the opponent". It has nothing to do with the board interactions. For example the freeze mage burst can only be delayed by Loatheb. It makes people feel helpless.
Ok I am starting to understand, though one way to counter crap on the board, is to put your own crap on the board. You can also use board clears. Priest, and freeze mage are in particular good against secret pally. It seems to me to be less an issue of people being helpless against mid-range druid and secret pally, and more an issue of people not willing to alter their decks or play different decks to deal with the power of these two decks.
Spamming the board is not the issue in my opinion and I wouldn't call it non-interactive. But MC itself is non-interactiveness in person. Because of the secrets chain reaction you just can't react to his play unless you have a handful of removals and board control. Additionally there is some RNG involved by avenge because you don't know what it buffs - so you can't even rely on BGH to kill MC. There are classes in Hearthstone which have no viable removals at all or jsut aren't able to build up an early board - this is the reason why Midrange Hunter and CW almost died after SP became so popular.
And people do alter their decks in order to deal with SP, but there is no tech card which can deal with MC and all the secrets at once. And there should be no card or deck which dictates the meta and limits others from playing the class they would like to play.
I really think the word non-interactive is being misused here and in many other posts. It suggests that these decks do not care about board state or do not trade, as if they are a face deck. These decks do care about these thing, and do them well. You can interact with any creature on the board. Of course the force of nature combo is the one non-interactive aspect. The secrets too are very interactive, whether they come from MC or not. I've won on turn three before, due to a priest playing a deathlord right into a repentance. In fact druid still has some trouble building a early game board. Just how do you mean non-interactive?
Non-interactive in a sense where it does not matter what you play, the opponent will still play the same card. There is no strategy involved in playing a Combo Druid. If available, they will always drop the same cards on the same turns. A good comparison could be a Tempo Mage. They are similar in the sense where their turns early on are often the same. Something like:
After that, however the deck does require at least some level of strategy to play. They can't (in most cases) just mindlessly dump their hand onto the board and win the game without thinking about trading a single time.
The Druids on the other hand can. They will simply play their minions/spells on curve and hit your face as often as possible to make sure that by the time they draw their combo your health is below the burst threshold. That's all there is to it. No hard decisionmaking, no debating wheter or not to play a certain minion, no holding back a card to counter an opponents later drop. Dump whatever you can, win
I'll try to make an example. This is exactly what 70% of all Combo Druid games look like:
This is what they will play, no matter what you play, do, have played, will do, are planning to do etc. I mean non-interactive in a sense that regardless how well you play, they will ignore what you play and continue playing their cards as planned, not needing a second to consider what to do.
I mean non-interactive in a sense that regardless of your board state,Force of Nature + Savage Roar will kill you if your health is too low.
I mean non-interactive in a sense that they don't need to know what deck you are playing. Or what cards to mulligan for to fare well against your deck. All they always need to get in their starting hand is Living Roots / Wild Growth / 4 drop. No matter what class or deck is up against them. They don't need to know what cards you might play next. Or what cards could be in your deck. It does not concern them in the least.
And last but not least, non interactive in a sense that there is no decision making involved. A Combo Druid's hardest decision is probably the choice between Azure Drake or Druid of the Claw. Which isn't hard at all for them, because in 90% of the cases unless threatened by lethal Azure Drake will be the play, so they can dig deeper for their combo.
I hope that clarifies it a bit, I find it rather difficult to explain this specific topic in text, my apologies.
Most of those decks don't see much play because of that. However, the ones that do, like the current Druid lists, those are the ones that tend to be called cancerous because just about nothing you put on the board will affect their game plan, simply because there aren't any cards in the deck that are there to react to threats.
Personally, I think it's ok for these decks to exist, although preferably at a weaker level than the reactive decks.
I don't consider any of that "non interactive". Non interactive to me is like face hunter or freeze mage where the opposing board state is nearly inconsequential to their strategy and win condition.
Druid and secret pally do have to make trades and removal to a greater degree and have to consider your board state more. Playing on curve isn't non interactive, every decks wishes to do that, just not all of them have a big power turn like MC or force/roar.
Blizzard has created this meta where curve/tempo/minions rules all because they didn't want stuff like patron and miracle to exist. MC exploits this tempo/value minion driven meta far too much, which is why its become such a problem.
To be honest, the real issue is that Blizzard are not doing balance patches right. What they should do is equalize the strength of current Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks, to increase the range of future tier 1 deck and tier 2 decks. Making it easier for niche deck to become the new meta, like what happened in Classic and release of expansion/adventures. Except it will be as fun as a new expansion/adventure release without new packs needing to be bought and happening often.
There are so much fun interaction in this game not being realized, they are only moving the trope, it is not specific decks that are issue. It is the narrow range of Tier 1 deck that is truly the issue. Blizzard always overly nerf 1 deck, but doesn't try to equalize the scale. That is not balancing, that is being asshole to a certain archetype, (List of decks that were blown out of meta: Molten Charge Warrior -> Miracle Rogue -> Control Hunter -> Patron Warrior -> Face Hunter). Honestly they don't know how to balance properly, they destroy archetype instead of making them interesting. They are just a bunch of bonzo with lack of creativity who are stuck in office all days. Seriously what they did to destroy face hunter is just creating Face Shaman, and when a new strong aggro deck show up the old one dies. Control Shaman is still not at tier 1-2 level. While yes, Tier 3 deck can reach Legendary, it is because of large amount of gameplays and low player skill-level on ladder misplaying into tier 3 decks.
Imagine if Tier 1 deck include more than 4 decks at a time, and tier 2 decks have more than 15. Having more than 19 Variation of decks that are all competitive would be interesting. Imagine people using cards to test and figure out what the opponent's hand is, instead of just caring about getting the right cards and playing on curve. Imagine people playing the Control Vs Control cards, imagine if you can make a big tempo comeback and doesn't lose to a Druid's combo, imagine if Bolvar's cool animation see plays in competitive matches, playing Mekgineer Thermaplugg and/or Majordomo Executus and getting cheered on like Abataur and Murky pick in HOTS tournament. Imagine seeing a Gruul growing and being a decisive card, because wasting a turn wouldn't cost you. Imagine people playing Nozdormu in a tier 2 deck competitively because you actually have to think about outcome instead of just emptying your hand. The Anub'arak dream, Malorne, Aviana, Acidmaw, Flame Leviathan, Wilfred Fizzlebang, Skeleton Knight, Icehowl, Illidan Double Wisp Competitive Spirit, Troggzor, The Beast, Trade Prince Gallywix , Mistcaller and all the cool legendaries.
I concur with Kas, except that I think Secret pally is even easier to play and climb ranks than combo druid and I would categorize Secret Pally as tier 0.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
I concur with Kas, except that I think Secret pally is even easier to play and climb ranks than combo druid and I would categorize Secret Pally as tier 0.
I think what you are seeing, is the speed at which Secret Pally wins, or losses. So when you win with it, you win quickly (sometimes before MC comes out). Mid-range druid has been ranked higher for a while. I do not have a lot of experience with druid, as it was never a class I really liked to play the class, so I will concur that the curve of druid is mostly homogeneous, though I think darnassus aspirant is sometimes used on turn 2. From my experience playing secret pally I can tell you that turns 1-3 have alot of variety depending on what class I am playing against. Turn one I have all the secrets and secret keeper, and all the secrets I sometimes get early; turn 2 has haunted creeper, minibot, and knife juggler; and turn three has muster, and coghammer. I have to be particularly mindful of potential board wipes.
Lastly it seems it is time for a new expansion to shake things up.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
Druid don't win 70% of their game, because they face against other tier 1/2 deck on ladder. Where it all come down to luck. It is a pure luck based class similar to Secret Pally and Freeze, and when played right they carry even brainless people close to the top. Of course, there are a fair share of luck based Tier 3 deck/Tier 4 decks.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
I just started playing the new season. I went 5-0. Then first Druid comes up and destroys me. This is literally what he played:
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
Druid don't win 70% of their game, because they face against other tier 1/2 deck on ladder. Where it all come down to luck. It is a pure luck based class similar to Secret Pally and Freeze, and when played right they carry even brainless people close to the top. Of course, there are a fair share of luck based Tier 3 deck/Tier 4 decks.
I find it impossible to take anyone seriously who compares secret paladin to freeze mage. Get out of casual mode and try harder.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
I just started playing the new season. I went 5-0. Then first Druid comes up and destroys me. This is literally what he played:
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
I just started playing the new season. I went 5-0. Then first Druid comes up and destroys me. This is literally what he played:
Cause a single game can be used as a basis to state absolute fact?
I can cite a bunch of single examples of ridiculous games where opponent drew the perfect cards seemingly every turn, and I can do it for every class. Thing is it's pointless.
Sorry for your poor luck, but if we nerfed every deck that ever had good draws in a game. Every deck and card in this game would suck.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
Druid don't win 70% of their game, because they face against other tier 1/2 deck on ladder. Where it all come down to luck. It is a pure luck based class similar to Secret Pally and Freeze, and when played right they carry even brainless people close to the top. Of course, there are a fair share of luck based Tier 3 deck/Tier 4 decks.
I find it impossible to take anyone seriously who compares secret paladin to freeze mage. Get out of casual mode and try harder.
I mean I am by no mean a pro player, the highest I've reach in Legend was 300. And I've only been there 3 time, but I've been a Hearthstone Arena player for a long time and I always play with tier 2/3 deck when playing ranked. And I've played freeze mage before, it is not overly difficult, not compared to old school rogue and priests. Your decision is limited by your curve and achieve a high percentage win condition when you draw the right cards. Most Freeze mage matchup are the same win or lose.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
I just started playing the new season. I went 5-0. Then first Druid comes up and destroys me. This is literally what he played:
Cause a single game can be used as a basis to state absolute fact?
I could show you litteraly hundreds of games playing out in a similar fashion when playing against combo druid. Its one of the oldest decks in the game, and perhaps the matchup Ive played most times. I know all the ins and outs, what to mulligan, what to save removal for etc. Doesnt change the fact that the combo kills you in effortless fashion, if you stumble for just a single turn.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
I just started playing the new season. I went 5-0. Then first Druid comes up and destroys me. This is literally what he played:
Cause a single game can be used as a basis to state absolute fact?
I could show you litteraly hundreds of games playing out in a similar fashion when playing against combo druid. Its one of the oldest decks in the game, and perhaps the matchup Ive played most times. I know all the ins and outs, what to mulligan, what to save removal for etc. Doesnt change the fact that the combo kills you in effortless fashion, if you stumble for just a single turn.
I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore. Every deck has a gameplan, its not always so cut and dry that druid can just ignore everything then kill on on turn 7-9.
I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore. Every deck has a gameplan, its not always so cut and dry that druid can just ignore everything then kill on on turn 7-9.
I won't continue contributing to this discussion. I try to keep it as objective as possible, but people come here with their opinions and defend their decks because they're free Legend.
I don't see a reason to continue the topic like that. If people can't see the difference between Combo Druid and Freeze Mage or refuse to understand what I wrote, (Like you, for example. Earlier I posted a short explanation on how Combo Druid either wins by whittling the opponent down then doing an early combo or, if that cannot be done, by steamrolling the opponent in later stages by utilizing the stickiness of cards like Piloted Shredder to build up a board and in conjunction with Savage Roar create an even more powerful combo.) I find it very one sided.
Yes, there are always shitty metas in the game. Yes, the game will never be balanced. But such incredibly easy to play decks having such great success makes ladder even more a gamble than the game already is with all the RNG. And that, at least in my opinion is negative to the community and health of the game.
Edit: Face Hunter for example was and is a one trick pony. If they can't kill you by turn 9 or so, they lose by default. If a Combo Druid can't kill you by turn 7, they just drop a couple of minions and do it a few turns later. At least versus Face Hunter you could win the game after you survive the initial onslaught. That is not the case with Combo Druid.
There will always be tier one decks, I'm fine with that. Some mechanics (force/roar, charge, spell burst, reno) are pretty annoying but its how HS is designed. MC is just broken though, there' s no defending it at this point.
Really, combo druid is plenty balanced, its really easy to get outvalued depending on draws and there's a good choice of decks that match up well with it. Taunts can save you more than with pally, a well timed loatheb can change things, heals can ruin their game plan, and druid has trouble dealing with a bigger board state since they really only have swipe and that's not a great sweep/clear option many times.
Blizzard has actually done a decent job creating a diverse meta finally, but we have that one secret pally deck simply dominating the distribution of constructed decks. Its undeniable at this point that its the new huntertaker where you just see the same damn thing far too often. I think it needs to go, will be interesting to see if they do anything and when and how.
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Some decks are just plain bad at being reactive.
Most of those decks don't see much play because of that. However, the ones that do, like the current Druid lists, those are the ones that tend to be called cancerous because just about nothing you put on the board will affect their game plan, simply because there aren't any cards in the deck that are there to react to threats.
Personally, I think it's ok for these decks to exist, although preferably at a weaker level than the reactive decks.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
I don't consider any of that "non interactive". Non interactive to me is like face hunter or freeze mage where the opposing board state is nearly inconsequential to their strategy and win condition.
Druid and secret pally do have to make trades and removal to a greater degree and have to consider your board state more. Playing on curve isn't non interactive, every decks wishes to do that, just not all of them have a big power turn like MC or force/roar.
Blizzard has created this meta where curve/tempo/minions rules all because they didn't want stuff like patron and miracle to exist. MC exploits this tempo/value minion driven meta far too much, which is why its become such a problem.
To be honest, the real issue is that Blizzard are not doing balance patches right. What they should do is equalize the strength of current Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks, to increase the range of future tier 1 deck and tier 2 decks. Making it easier for niche deck to become the new meta, like what happened in Classic and release of expansion/adventures. Except it will be as fun as a new expansion/adventure release without new packs needing to be bought and happening often.
There are so much fun interaction in this game not being realized, they are only moving the trope, it is not specific decks that are issue. It is the narrow range of Tier 1 deck that is truly the issue. Blizzard always overly nerf 1 deck, but doesn't try to equalize the scale. That is not balancing, that is being asshole to a certain archetype, (List of decks that were blown out of meta: Molten Charge Warrior -> Miracle Rogue -> Control Hunter -> Patron Warrior -> Face Hunter). Honestly they don't know how to balance properly, they destroy archetype instead of making them interesting. They are just a bunch of bonzo with lack of creativity who are stuck in office all days. Seriously what they did to destroy face hunter is just creating Face Shaman, and when a new strong aggro deck show up the old one dies. Control Shaman is still not at tier 1-2 level. While yes, Tier 3 deck can reach Legendary, it is because of large amount of gameplays and low player skill-level on ladder misplaying into tier 3 decks.
Imagine if Tier 1 deck include more than 4 decks at a time, and tier 2 decks have more than 15. Having more than 19 Variation of decks that are all competitive would be interesting. Imagine people using cards to test and figure out what the opponent's hand is, instead of just caring about getting the right cards and playing on curve. Imagine people playing the Control Vs Control cards, imagine if you can make a big tempo comeback and doesn't lose to a Druid's combo, imagine if Bolvar's cool animation see plays in competitive matches, playing Mekgineer Thermaplugg and/or Majordomo Executus and getting cheered on like Abataur and Murky pick in HOTS tournament. Imagine seeing a Gruul growing and being a decisive card, because wasting a turn wouldn't cost you. Imagine people playing Nozdormu in a tier 2 deck competitively because you actually have to think about outcome instead of just emptying your hand. The Anub'arak dream, Malorne, Aviana, Acidmaw, Flame Leviathan, Wilfred Fizzlebang, Skeleton Knight, Icehowl, Illidan Double Wisp Competitive Spirit, Troggzor, The Beast, Trade Prince Gallywix , Mistcaller and all the cool legendaries.
I concur with Kas, except that I think Secret pally is even easier to play and climb ranks than combo druid and I would categorize Secret Pally as tier 0.
70% of druid games huh? Yeah right....druids don't always have wild growth on turn 2...many times you don't get it til it is too late to use. Plus I wish I innervated Boom every game too. Lol. Look at any competitive deck and think of the perfect draw and it would be insane, however thinking it happens most of the time is straight up delusional.
Also completely ignore board state? Yeah try that against aggro decks and see what happens with druid's crappy removal and aoe.
Secret paladin is in a class of it's own as far as 'brainless' is concerned. Unlike the subjective opinions of many, hard data by bots shows Secret paladin is the only deck bots can play with above 50% win rate.
Also if you are complaining about non interactivity and at the same time lauding praise on Freeze mage, I don't know what to say. Druid's combo you can say is non interactive (even though it can be stopped by any taunt). Freeze mage from first turn to last is non interactive.
Turn 2: Shapeshift
Turn 3: Shapeshift
Turn 4: Swipe
Turn 5: Druid of the Claw
Turn 6:Swipe + Shapeshift
Turn 7: Innervate +Force of Nature + Savage Roar
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I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore. Every deck has a gameplan, its not always so cut and dry that druid can just ignore everything then kill on on turn 7-9.
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