Just wondering about this. I'd never hated Secret Paladin, nor had I played it, but I'd heard constant complaints about how broken it is and how it does nothing but play on curve and instantly win. Being a frequent homebrew Paladin player who got flamed on and BM'd constantly for the mere reason that I play Paladin, I was pessimistic that the Paladin class is broken, so one day I crafted MC and decided to try it out. After testing the deck for myself, I was quickly convinced that Secret Paladin is even less broken than I thought. Game after game, I'd draw half my deck with no MC in sight, and the few times I managed to play it on turn 6 was because I kept it in my opening hand. The so called "unstoppable curve" was exceedingly rare, and when it did happen, it didn't feel remotely unstoppable. I would play Muster for Battle and basically plead that my opponent had no Swipe or other way to deal with it, because when they did I would usually lose.
In the end I gave up playing it, because it felt too inconsistent and my weaksauce RNG did not synergize well with the deck, but it got me thinking: How many people who rage against Secret Paladin have actually tried it? And how has trying it\not trying it affected your opinion?
It's called "cancer" because it's all over the fucking ladder and boasts superior win rates to boot.
Whether it's broken or not is debatable, of course. That doesn't change the fact that is definitely IS a strong deck and you WILL play against it more than anything else.
I hate the deck because it is super simple to play and is too good for the amount of skill involved. In my opinion no deck that is that easy to play should be that good. I know that new players like it because they can pick it up and start winning with it, but that's just not how a competitive game, especially one that has a bunch of rng built into it, should be. It lowers the percentage that the better player will win over a worse player, and while you don't want that ratio at 100% you don't want it super low either.
I crafted the whole deck since everyone was playing it and I wanted to see what was all the fuss about. Its a nice deck to play when I dont feel like tryharding. I just flood the board, play MC turn 6 and go face for the rest of the game.
If that doesnt win me the game it doesnt matter since I already drew most of it either by playing MC or with Divine fucking Favor after vomiting my entire hand so I know I'll top deck Dr boom, Tirion or Ragnaros to close up the game.
I've played with it and done well enough. I tend to stick to control priest and some weird homebrews though. It's really strong, but it's basically tempo mage with more bombs. Sometimes they just win on a crazy curve, but if they don't get their pieces, then it's no big deal to beat.
I hate the deck because it is super simple to play and is too good for the amount of skill involved. In my opinion no deck that is that easy to play should be that good. I know that new players like it because they can pick it up and start winning with it, but that's just not how a competitive game, especially one that has a bunch of rng built into it, should be. It lowers the percentage that the better player will win over a worse player, and while you don't want that ratio at 100% you don't want it super low either.
It's really funny you say that, because from my experience playing Secret Paladin, I feel I would make more wrong moves with that deck than I do with any other. In my mulligan, I would occasionally keep certain secrets and later regret it. I kept playing my secrets from hand simply because I have the mana. I instinctively trade a lot and as a result my opponent never has a chance to trigger my Avenges and Noble Sacrifices, so when I finally play the Challenger on turn 6, I don't get the secrets from my deck. On multiple occasions, I've accidentally left my board too full to spawn a Defender. I have absolutely no clue if it's correct or not to save coin for MC on turn 5 but I've been doing it. I can play complex decks like Freeze Mage and Patron like it's nothing, but this deck was tough for me.
Conversely, I'm at rank 4 at the moment, and I've been seeing lots of people play various other decks really poorly. I was sitting on 6 health against a druid who'd been holding Force of Nature for like five turns and he never killed me with it. I played against a Warlock who at 10 health, with no taunts up, decided to Life Tap against my Face Hunter. It gave me lethal which I otherwise didn't have. From my experience, I've seen more bad plays come from non-Paladin players than Paladin players, and yet they still make it to rank 5 and up regardless. Idk, my opinion is that no deck is truly that hard to win with, so complaints that a deck is "too easy" just seem silly to me.
I voted for option1. I do currently play it. I don't really think its broken itself. I think the problem is that it is really far above the curve of good decks in hearthstone. Secret paladin is a awesome well formed deck. Its all the other decks in hearthstone that just suck.
My double FlareDreadscale Midrange Hunter has no trouble dealing with MC paladin. As is my Freeze Mage.
That said, Mysterious Challenger is very powerful. It can pull wins out of nowhere. The counter-argument that one has to pack crappy cards in the form of Secrets is invalid because they simply aren't crappy. Redemption and Avenge had been used in previous aggro paladin list. Noble Sacrifice ruins people's game plan big time.
The fact that MC paladin works perfectly fine without the namesake Mysterious Challenger is quite problematic for the opponent. After dealing with various threats like Shielded Minibot or Muster for Battle, resources are spent and here comes Mysterious Challenger crashing into the field like nobody's business. Not saying it is overpowered or something, but this line of play is certainly very oppressive.
Do I hate Secret Paladin? Not really. But it is annoying. It's like those kids that just keep using Hadoken-Hadoken-Hadoken-Shoryuken sequence in street fighter. It's not really a must-win but the win rate for using this is high enough for them to believe so they just keep using it.
But I enjoyed Flare on secrets from mages and other hunters. I also smoked out some Shade of Naxxramas as well. Sure, if I need to swap cards, Flare will surely be one of those to go, but right now I have it in my deck, and I am quite enjoying it.
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"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I have played Secret Paladin, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that mysterious challenger is horribly broken. It is virtually impossible to lose when MC is played on curve, especially with the remainder of the board from the previous turns getting buffed by competitive spirit and making sure that the Challenger won't be the target of avenge and subsequently BGH. But the real issue is that MC isn't even the only win condition of the deck. Assuming you kept the board clear and took care of the challanger and 5 secrets, they simply drop a second challenger or Dr. Boom on the field as you already likely used your hard removal, and Tirion the turn after, not to mention they have a higher chance of doing so because they thinned their deck by 5 cards with challenger's battlecry, possibly by another 3 if played back to back, which isn't uncommon. And even if they don't have those cards in hand, many Secret Paladins run divine favor, taking advantage of the fact that only a control player could have that much removal to deal with all of their threats, or sometimes even another threat, like Ragnaros or Quartermaster to keep the opponent guessing. You can't even count on them drawing all of their secrets, as secret keeper can make even their bad hands a threat.
It isn't the fact that secret paladin can have a god hand, its the fact that if they get anything resembling a decent curve, they will win with minimal effort. Really, the fact that over 50% of bots using the deck got to legend with it shows that mechanical difficulty is not required to use the deck. A deck shouldn't be harder to craft than it is to play. And yes, simple decks should be available to players, but not to the point where anyone with fingers can hit legend with it. Scratch that, anyone with an account, due to the aforementioned betting. It is telling when a person who loves the paladin class like me wants this card to see a substantial nerf, mayhaps putting it at 8 mana so it occupies a more crowded mana slot(coining it out would cost the player a Dr. Boom, playing it costs the player a Tirion/Ragnaros/Muster+Quartermaster) and to give players more time to clear the board for damage control(Mages get Flamestrike or Blizzard, other paladins get Equality+Consecration, Priests can have more optimal Lightbombs, ect...).
Also, Mysterious Challenger is really limiting to card design if you think about it. As long as this card stays at its current power level, we will never get another good paladin secret, or good paladin secret support, or good neutral secret support now that I think about it. The hearthstone devs kinda wrote themselves into a corner with this card. Also, since this card mixes aspects of midrange and aggro paladin, we won't get any good cards for those archetypes as well, so unless you like murloc paladin a whole lot or are still holding out for a decent dragon paladin deck(Or a decent control paladin in general), the class is destined to get shafted by the next few expansions.
Tl;dr version: Secret paladin is indeed unfair in its current condition and things will only get worse for everyone if it isn't dealt with quickly. I apologize if this comes off as a rant, it just had to be stated.
I've played it a bit (with a fair degree of success).
When I draw Mysterious Challenger, I almost always win (not always, but almost always).
When I don't draw him, I usually lose (again, not always, but usually).
I think it's broken because it reduces the many variables of a shuffled deck of cards down to a simple "if either of a pair of cards are in the top third, you win".
Mysterious Challenger is a fantastic addition to Hearthstone in that it makes the previously trash tier unplayable paladin secrets and Secret Keeper see constructed play; that said the card is far too powerful in its current incarnation and is in need of a slight nerf to bring it more in line with the power level of other premium 6 mana cards like Fire Elemental and Savannah Highmane.
I hate the deck because it is super simple to play and is too good for the amount of skill involved. In my opinion no deck that is that easy to play should be that good. I know that new players like it because they can pick it up and start winning with it, but that's just not how a competitive game, especially one that has a bunch of rng built into it, should be. It lowers the percentage that the better player will win over a worse player, and while you don't want that ratio at 100% you don't want it super low either.
It's really funny you say that, because from my experience playing Secret Paladin, I feel I would make more wrong moves with that deck than I do with any other. In my mulligan, I would occasionally keep certain secrets and later regret it. I kept playing my secrets from hand simply because I have the mana. I instinctively trade a lot and as a result my opponent never has a chance to trigger my Avenges and Noble Sacrifices, so when I finally play the Challenger on turn 6, I don't get the secrets from my deck. On multiple occasions, I've accidentally left my board too full to spawn a Defender. I have absolutely no clue if it's correct or not to save coin for MC on turn 5 but I've been doing it. I can play complex decks like Freeze Mage and Patron like it's nothing, but this deck was tough for me.
Conversely, I'm at rank 4 at the moment, and I've been seeing lots of people play various other decks really poorly. I was sitting on 6 health against a druid who'd been holding Force of Nature for like five turns and he never killed me with it. I played against a Warlock who at 10 health, with no taunts up, decided to Life Tap against my Face Hunter. It gave me lethal which I otherwise didn't have. From my experience, I've seen more bad plays come from non-Paladin players than Paladin players, and yet they still make it to rank 5 and up regardless. Idk, my opinion is that no deck is truly that hard to win with, so complaints that a deck is "too easy" just seem silly to me.
You see, the problem you have is that you are a smart player. Secret Pally requires no thinking. You don't need to calculate trades and stuff like that. You just drop your minibots and muster for battle in early, and then play mysterious challenger and win.
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Just wondering about this. I'd never hated Secret Paladin, nor had I played it, but I'd heard constant complaints about how broken it is and how it does nothing but play on curve and instantly win. Being a frequent homebrew Paladin player who got flamed on and BM'd constantly for the mere reason that I play Paladin, I was pessimistic that the Paladin class is broken, so one day I crafted MC and decided to try it out. After testing the deck for myself, I was quickly convinced that Secret Paladin is even less broken than I thought. Game after game, I'd draw half my deck with no MC in sight, and the few times I managed to play it on turn 6 was because I kept it in my opening hand. The so called "unstoppable curve" was exceedingly rare, and when it did happen, it didn't feel remotely unstoppable. I would play Muster for Battle and basically plead that my opponent had no Swipe or other way to deal with it, because when they did I would usually lose.
In the end I gave up playing it, because it felt too inconsistent and my weaksauce RNG did not synergize well with the deck, but it got me thinking: How many people who rage against Secret Paladin have actually tried it? And how has trying it\not trying it affected your opinion?
I used it for the first half of the season to ladder.
I got bored with it. It's not very creative. It's very straightforward and super solid.
That said, I don't hate it.
It's annoying, but I don't hate it.
You... You wanna buy a funnel cake?
Woohoo first vote!
It's made of playable cards none of which are unfair.
You... You wanna buy a funnel cake?
It isn't broken by a long shot. Most people don't know how to play against it and are all stuck at rank 20-18.
Number of times Yolobish has been banned: 4
Number of times Yolobish's opinion has changed: 0
Secret Paladin 4 Life.
My favorite class is priest, but i have played secret paladin before, and i really don't understand why all this whinning in the community.
It's called "cancer" because it's all over the fucking ladder and boasts superior win rates to boot.
Whether it's broken or not is debatable, of course. That doesn't change the fact that is definitely IS a strong deck and you WILL play against it more than anything else.
I hate the deck because it is super simple to play and is too good for the amount of skill involved. In my opinion no deck that is that easy to play should be that good. I know that new players like it because they can pick it up and start winning with it, but that's just not how a competitive game, especially one that has a bunch of rng built into it, should be. It lowers the percentage that the better player will win over a worse player, and while you don't want that ratio at 100% you don't want it super low either.
I crafted the whole deck since everyone was playing it and I wanted to see what was all the fuss about. Its a nice deck to play when I dont feel like tryharding. I just flood the board, play MC turn 6 and go face for the rest of the game.
If that doesnt win me the game it doesnt matter since I already drew most of it either by playing MC or with Divine fucking Favor after vomiting my entire hand so I know I'll top deck Dr boom, Tirion or Ragnaros to close up the game.
The deck plays itself, quite refreshing.
I've played with it and done well enough. I tend to stick to control priest and some weird homebrews though. It's really strong, but it's basically tempo mage with more bombs. Sometimes they just win on a crazy curve, but if they don't get their pieces, then it's no big deal to beat.
I voted for option1. I do currently play it. I don't really think its broken itself. I think the problem is that it is really far above the curve of good decks in hearthstone. Secret paladin is a awesome well formed deck. Its all the other decks in hearthstone that just suck.
My double Flare Dreadscale Midrange Hunter has no trouble dealing with MC paladin. As is my Freeze Mage.
That said, Mysterious Challenger is very powerful. It can pull wins out of nowhere. The counter-argument that one has to pack crappy cards in the form of Secrets is invalid because they simply aren't crappy. Redemption and Avenge had been used in previous aggro paladin list. Noble Sacrifice ruins people's game plan big time.
The fact that MC paladin works perfectly fine without the namesake Mysterious Challenger is quite problematic for the opponent. After dealing with various threats like Shielded Minibot or Muster for Battle, resources are spent and here comes Mysterious Challenger crashing into the field like nobody's business. Not saying it is overpowered or something, but this line of play is certainly very oppressive.
Do I hate Secret Paladin? Not really. But it is annoying. It's like those kids that just keep using Hadoken-Hadoken-Hadoken-Shoryuken sequence in street fighter. It's not really a must-win but the win rate for using this is high enough for them to believe so they just keep using it.
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
"Are you not entertained?! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." - Maximus Decimus Meridius
I have played Secret Paladin, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that mysterious challenger is horribly broken. It is virtually impossible to lose when MC is played on curve, especially with the remainder of the board from the previous turns getting buffed by competitive spirit and making sure that the Challenger won't be the target of avenge and subsequently BGH. But the real issue is that MC isn't even the only win condition of the deck. Assuming you kept the board clear and took care of the challanger and 5 secrets, they simply drop a second challenger or Dr. Boom on the field as you already likely used your hard removal, and Tirion the turn after, not to mention they have a higher chance of doing so because they thinned their deck by 5 cards with challenger's battlecry, possibly by another 3 if played back to back, which isn't uncommon. And even if they don't have those cards in hand, many Secret Paladins run divine favor, taking advantage of the fact that only a control player could have that much removal to deal with all of their threats, or sometimes even another threat, like Ragnaros or Quartermaster to keep the opponent guessing. You can't even count on them drawing all of their secrets, as secret keeper can make even their bad hands a threat.
It isn't the fact that secret paladin can have a god hand, its the fact that if they get anything resembling a decent curve, they will win with minimal effort. Really, the fact that over 50% of bots using the deck got to legend with it shows that mechanical difficulty is not required to use the deck. A deck shouldn't be harder to craft than it is to play. And yes, simple decks should be available to players, but not to the point where anyone with fingers can hit legend with it. Scratch that, anyone with an account, due to the aforementioned betting. It is telling when a person who loves the paladin class like me wants this card to see a substantial nerf, mayhaps putting it at 8 mana so it occupies a more crowded mana slot(coining it out would cost the player a Dr. Boom, playing it costs the player a Tirion/Ragnaros/Muster+Quartermaster) and to give players more time to clear the board for damage control(Mages get Flamestrike or Blizzard, other paladins get Equality+Consecration, Priests can have more optimal Lightbombs, ect...).
Also, Mysterious Challenger is really limiting to card design if you think about it. As long as this card stays at its current power level, we will never get another good paladin secret, or good paladin secret support, or good neutral secret support now that I think about it. The hearthstone devs kinda wrote themselves into a corner with this card. Also, since this card mixes aspects of midrange and aggro paladin, we won't get any good cards for those archetypes as well, so unless you like murloc paladin a whole lot or are still holding out for a decent dragon paladin deck(Or a decent control paladin in general), the class is destined to get shafted by the next few expansions.
Tl;dr version: Secret paladin is indeed unfair in its current condition and things will only get worse for everyone if it isn't dealt with quickly. I apologize if this comes off as a rant, it just had to be stated.
Guilty.... :(
Hearthstone player......
I've played it a bit (with a fair degree of success).
When I draw Mysterious Challenger, I almost always win (not always, but almost always).
When I don't draw him, I usually lose (again, not always, but usually).
I think it's broken because it reduces the many variables of a shuffled deck of cards down to a simple "if either of a pair of cards are in the top third, you win".
Mysterious Challenger is a fantastic addition to Hearthstone in that it makes the previously trash tier unplayable paladin secrets and Secret Keeper see constructed play; that said the card is far too powerful in its current incarnation and is in need of a slight nerf to bring it more in line with the power level of other premium 6 mana cards like Fire Elemental and Savannah Highmane.