It's only one week into the expansion and already Witchwood has made the game unplayable. Aggro is out of control, Cubelock is still bullshit, and Spiteful Summoner still exists. This expansion also created super powerful synergies with Taunt Druid since they can now make a shitload of Hadronoxes now. It's no secret there are a lot of changes needed, and fast. So I've come up with some quick balance changes that I think would make the game better as a whole, while not killing the cards being nerfed.
It's no secret Cube is a problem. Originally it was just a Warlock problem, but then once Witchwood showed up, now Taunt Druids are becoming a problem, as they can play Witching Hour to get Hadronox back, then Cube it, not only giving them potentially two more Hadronoxes, but also filling the board with powerful taunts. Cube needs to be deal with and now. So the change I propose for now, is changing the deathrattle to instead of summoning two copies, it instead adds two copies to your hand. This change will cancel any Doomguard degenerate gimp play, and make Skull of the Man'ari more useful in the late game, while making things more fair. However, this could be problematic with Hadronox, so I could nerf it some more to cost 8 mana as well, but I think that's a little extreme. I think this Deathrattle nerf would make it more fair, and Cube more situational instead of an auto include in these degenerate decks.
Blizzard what the fuck were you thinking when you made this card? 6 mana of value for just 4, you thin out the deck, and if you got Knife Juggler, possibly deal some damage as well. That's not even counting the Murloc synergy this stupid card has. I think everyone on the forum unanimously agrees, this needs to be 5 mana, not 4.
This card was a problem even before Kobolds, but once Kobolds added more tools for Dragon Priests this card snowballed hard. Even in Witchwood it's a problem as now Druids are using it too. With the set rotation, all the bad 10 drops are now gone, so now this card is even more good now. 2/5 times you'll get a 12/12 (one of them can't be targeted by spells or hero powers,) 1/5 times you'll get a 7/14, and 2/5 times you'll get a 8/8. That is fucking ridiculous and too powerful, especially since you get a 4/4 for 6, AND the up to 12/12 for 6 as well. Forget 4 mana 7/7, 6 mana 12/12 is where it's at. So a nerf for this card would be to make it 8 mana instead of 6. I know it's extreme, but this card is just so fucking powerful that setting it to 8 means other players will have a chance to deal with the threat, but having a fucking 12/12 at the midgame when you just have 6 mana, and the chance you can't even target the 12/12 with spells to deal with it, means this card is just too strong.
These last two nerfs aren't cards themselves, but hero powers. The Hunter and Paladin upgraded hero Powers to be precise.
Firstly, the upgraded Hunter hero power Ballista Shot deals so much damage that it's singlehandedly brought SMOrc back from the dead, a deck NO ONE wants to face. (Get it? :D) Control decks are impossible right now because the new Odd Cost Aggro Hunter can just burst them down so fast since the hero power deals 3 damage instead of 2. Hell, some decks are running Blackwald Pixie as a finisher, since then they can use the bullshit hero power twice. So this new upgraded hero power I designed to support Control Hunter, a deck archetype that needs love desperately. This new hero power can target minions as well as face. It's basically just like the upgraded Mage power now, yes, however it does allow for a control setup since now the hero power can immediately attack minions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As for The Silver Hand, Odd Paladin has become a problem too, especially with the sheer amount of Recruit buff cards like Level Up! The sheer amount of Recruits it gives is crazy, which allows for a Paladin Aggro zoo that snowballs out of control. This new upgraded power makes it similar to the DK one, and supports a more control Paladin setup, just giving you a buffer dude, instead of more dudes.
Some of these nerfs will probably be controversial (I know the upgraded hero power one is) but that's what I got. Level Up could also get nerfed, but I think the problem isn't with the card itself, but the fact it's so easy to get Recruits, hence why I nerfed the hero power instead.
"It's only one week into the expansion and already Witchwood has made the game unplayable. Aggro is out of control, Cubelock is still bullshit, and Spiteful Summoner still exists. This expansion also created super powerful synergies with Taunt Druid since they can now make a shitload of Hadronoxes now. It's no secret there are a lot of changes needed, and fast. So I've come up with some quick balance changes that I think would make the game better as a whole, while not killing the cards being nerfed."
Basically, you want to nerf anything that is Tier 1, because they are good decks.
"This card was a problem even before Kobolds, but once Kobolds added more tools for Dragon Priests this card snowballed hard. " Spiteful Summoner didn't even exist before Kobolds tho
Anyway, while I do agree CtA should be nerfed, I'd prefer it be nerfed to 2 minions instead of increasing the cost. Making it cost 5 would actually be a buff to Odd Paladin (letting them swarm even more and thinning their deck) rather than a nerf to the decks that currently run CtA. Making it recruit 2 minions would still keep it a playable card, but would give the opponent an actual chance to respond to that tempo, and wouldn't mess with the curve or Odd/Even shenanigans.
I'm also not sure if changing the upgraded Paladin hero power to a 2/2 is actually a nerf, because one way to currently give Odd Paladin a hard time is 1 damage AOE through stuff like Blood Razor, Despicable Dreadlord, Wild Pyromancer, Swipe etc. By dealing 1 damage to their current Hero Power, you're removing 1 damage from their board, but dealing 1 damage to a 2/2 doesn't remove any damage. As Rogue or Mage for instance, you'd take more damage pinging town a 2/2 over two turns vs pinging down two 1/1s. A 2/2 would deal 6 to a Rogue and 4 to a Mage, whereas two 1/1s would deal 3 to the Rogue and 1 to the Mage.
I don't think that Carnivorous Cube is that much of a problem only warlock is able to fully utilize the card so we must seek the problem in warlock because Carnivorous Cube is a neutral card it allows many game strategy for other classes.
Also hero powers are not really problem Odd hunter is not any better than previous face hunters.
Baku and Hunter are preventable aggro decks but their natural enemies get crushed by Spiteful decks and warlock.
But I cannot tell same for Genn Paladin it has busted cards with perfect curve. Sun Keeper Tarim Call to the arms etc.
Perhaps hunter's hero power upgrade could be" deal 2 damage to a minion , but if your enemy has no minions, deal 3 damage to face. That would encourage control hunter like they are trying to do with other cards, but it wouldn't be exactly the same as mage.
I like the cube one. It prevents otk and promotes control. I think bizzard would like the idea.
Nerfing call to arms while leaving possessed lackey untouched is borderline retard. Look, I myself like the control games, but we need aggro for this game's health. Nerf them both at once or don't nerf them at all.
Spiteful summoner's nerf is a bit harsh. I say the better solution is to keep the cost and effect with a single errata change: If the spell costs 8 or more, summon a random 5 cost minion. Still powerful, but not degenerate.
Disclaimer: I LOVE control hunter. But this nerf is poorly done. You basically gave them Jaina's upgraded power, where is the novelty in that? Ditto for pala, a downgraded version of DK pala? Why even play that? It misses the spirit of class as well.
I disagree on the Spiteful Summoner. There's nothing wrong with that card, as there is a huge restriction to it. 1. It's takes a random spell 2. Because of the random part, you can only have expensive spells in your deck, which resticts you by a lot.
The Silver Hand recruit "nerf" will actually lead to other problems. Since 2/2 is more difficult to kill, it means they have more staying power and therefor higher chances of buffs. Imagine you have 3 or 4 2/2s on the board and you play Unidentified Maul with divine shield. Congrats, now you have to face multiple Shielded Minibot.
The Ballista Shot "nerf", should actually have been an ability for Hunters a long ago. They should have released a card that converts the hero power from deal damage to enemy hero to deal 2 damage. Steamwheedle Sniper should have made the ability permanent. But then, there might be concerns that Hunter can clear the enemy board while developing their own.
Carnivorous Cube should not exist in the game. Period. It is a card that people will always find a way to abuse. The effect needs complete alternation. People saying Cube is not the problem need to look at Cube Druid. No, it's not Taunt Druid. Its Cube Druid. The deck exists because of the Cube. If Cube didn't exist, the deck will be manageable. Since it will have two Hadronox combos and the combo pieces will be difficult to assemble. Right now you can face upto 7 Hadronox (I have faced 4 after silencing 1 Cube. That's four sets of taunt and 8 Lich King). Making the Cube silencing the minion before killing and summoning two minions doesn't solve anything. Silencing Doomguard does nothing. Silencing Voidlord does nothing, you still get two of back, only loosing 3 1/3s and that actually makes Bloodreaver better LoL! Silencing Hadronox does nothing because Druids can pop the Cube various ways and resummon two. As it turns out, Hadronox is easy to kill.
I do not like the proposed nerf here since Warlocks can just resummon the demons via Skull of the Minari. Druids can replay Hadronox and pop it.
CUBE IS THE PROBLEM. The power level is beyond any card before. As long as there are ways to resummon minions and kill your own minions, Cube will continue to be a problem. Another problem is that classes don't really have a way to deal will mass boards. If you can remove all the minions it will not be a problem. But but but, Hadronox and Voidlord are deathrattle minions and so is the Cube. Nevermind. There is no way out here, you're screwed. GG, WP. Just play Quest Rogue. The deck is so creative and requires tremendous amount of skill.
However, this could be problematic with Hadronox, so I could nerf it some more to cost 8 mana as well, but I think that's a little extreme. I think this Deathrattle nerf would make it more fair, and Cube more situational instead of an auto include in these degenerate decks.
The whole op post is just a pile of salt ( although I do agree on Call to Arms and a little less harsh nerf on Spiteful Summoner ) but this bit is the funniest to me. So it seems that cards not only have to be situational in all decks....every card NEEDS to be situational in EVERY deck now ! Let's nerf Cube and make it situational in Cube decks ! xD
So let's go down the list this logic enables... Dragon's Fury is used in EVERY single BIg Spell Mage , let's nerf it and make it more situational instead of an auto include ! Baku the Mooneater is used in EVERY single Baku deck , let's nerf it so it's more situational in those decks ! Meat Wagon is used in every Meat Wagon deck , nerf it so it's not an auto include in those decks ! etc...
While the nerf seems at least reasonable ( you could still build different kinds of decks around the card ) the further proposed nerf of 8 mana is beyond ridiculous ( as opposed to ,,a little extreme,, ) . Even not nerfing the effect while making it 8 mana would make it one of the worst cards in game.
Carnivorous Cube doesn't need a nerf. The druid variant isn't even that powerful and it can be hard countered by Hex , Polymorph and even Tinkmaster Overspark since those add beasts that Witching Hour can ress instead of Hadronox . Those also help against demons in the warlock variant. Also..it's a lot harder for a warlock to cube anything if you destroy their Skull of the Man'ari . Or delete their Dark Pact with Skulking Geist . Learn to adapt instead of asking for nerfs every time something is powerful.
I think problem is not the cube, but rather cheating curve with Skull and lackeys. Cta should be either 6 mana or recruit 2 minions, othervise people just start play this in Baku pala. Speaking of which i think 2-2 dudes are still too strong, 2-1 should be enough. I'm fine with current hunter hp, they are not that strong. Spiteful nerf is great.
Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious! How many of these threads are there now? But this one has 5 nerfs. LMAO! This thread actually wants to nerf like 6-8 decks. Not 1 or 2 OP decks.... 8 (not counting their varrients). The OP is pretty much admitting that this is a pretty balanced meta... and it hasn’t even settled.
If every good deck needs to be nerfed, then no good deck needs to be nerfed. If you have this many problems with that many decks, maybe your just playing the wrong decks.
It's only one week into the expansion and already Witchwood has made the game unplayable. Aggro is out of control, Cubelock is still bullshit, and Spiteful Summoner still exists. This expansion also created super powerful synergies with Taunt Druid since they can now make a shitload of Hadronoxes now. It's no secret there are a lot of changes needed, and fast. So I've come up with some quick balance changes that I think would make the game better as a whole, while not killing the cards being nerfed.
Carnivorous Cube
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It's no secret Cube is a problem. Originally it was just a Warlock problem, but then once Witchwood showed up, now Taunt Druids are becoming a problem, as they can play Witching Hour to get Hadronox back, then Cube it, not only giving them potentially two more Hadronoxes, but also filling the board with powerful taunts. Cube needs to be deal with and now. So the change I propose for now, is changing the deathrattle to instead of summoning two copies, it instead adds two copies to your hand. This change will cancel any Doomguard degenerate gimp play, and make Skull of the Man'ari more useful in the late game, while making things more fair. However, this could be problematic with Hadronox, so I could nerf it some more to cost 8 mana as well, but I think that's a little extreme. I think this Deathrattle nerf would make it more fair, and Cube more situational instead of an auto include in these degenerate decks.
Call to Arms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blizzard what the fuck were you thinking when you made this card? 6 mana of value for just 4, you thin out the deck, and if you got Knife Juggler, possibly deal some damage as well. That's not even counting the Murloc synergy this stupid card has. I think everyone on the forum unanimously agrees, this needs to be 5 mana, not 4.
Spiteful Summoner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This card was a problem even before Kobolds, but once Kobolds added more tools for Dragon Priests this card snowballed hard. Even in Witchwood it's a problem as now Druids are using it too. With the set rotation, all the bad 10 drops are now gone, so now this card is even more good now. 2/5 times you'll get a 12/12 (one of them can't be targeted by spells or hero powers,) 1/5 times you'll get a 7/14, and 2/5 times you'll get a 8/8. That is fucking ridiculous and too powerful, especially since you get a 4/4 for 6, AND the up to 12/12 for 6 as well. Forget 4 mana 7/7, 6 mana 12/12 is where it's at. So a nerf for this card would be to make it 8 mana instead of 6. I know it's extreme, but this card is just so fucking powerful that setting it to 8 means other players will have a chance to deal with the threat, but having a fucking 12/12 at the midgame when you just have 6 mana, and the chance you can't even target the 12/12 with spells to deal with it, means this card is just too strong.
These last two nerfs aren't cards themselves, but hero powers. The Hunter and Paladin upgraded hero Powers to be precise.
Ballista Shot & The Silver Hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Firstly, the upgraded Hunter hero power Ballista Shot deals so much damage that it's singlehandedly brought SMOrc back from the dead, a deck NO ONE wants to face. (Get it? :D) Control decks are impossible right now because the new Odd Cost Aggro Hunter can just burst them down so fast since the hero power deals 3 damage instead of 2. Hell, some decks are running Blackwald Pixie as a finisher, since then they can use the bullshit hero power twice. So this new upgraded hero power I designed to support Control Hunter, a deck archetype that needs love desperately. This new hero power can target minions as well as face. It's basically just like the upgraded Mage power now, yes, however it does allow for a control setup since now the hero power can immediately attack minions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As for The Silver Hand, Odd Paladin has become a problem too, especially with the sheer amount of Recruit buff cards like Level Up! The sheer amount of Recruits it gives is crazy, which allows for a Paladin Aggro zoo that snowballs out of control. This new upgraded power makes it similar to the DK one, and supports a more control Paladin setup, just giving you a buffer dude, instead of more dudes.
Some of these nerfs will probably be controversial (I know the upgraded hero power one is) but that's what I got. Level Up could also get nerfed, but I think the problem isn't with the card itself, but the fact it's so easy to get Recruits, hence why I nerfed the hero power instead.
Let me know what you all think.
"It's only one week into the expansion and already Witchwood has made the game unplayable. Aggro is out of control, Cubelock is still bullshit, and Spiteful Summoner still exists. This expansion also created super powerful synergies with Taunt Druid since they can now make a shitload of Hadronoxes now. It's no secret there are a lot of changes needed, and fast. So I've come up with some quick balance changes that I think would make the game better as a whole, while not killing the cards being nerfed."
Basically, you want to nerf anything that is Tier 1, because they are good decks.
Stop crying and adapt.
Disagree with cube and spitful. I think dark pact and lacky are bigger problems. I like the hero power things thought.
I think these nerfs are fair.
Cube: Battlecry becomes "Silence and Destroy a friendly minion", everything else about it stays the same.
Call to Arms can't be an odd cost.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
"This card was a problem even before Kobolds, but once Kobolds added more tools for Dragon Priests this card snowballed hard. "
Spiteful Summoner didn't even exist before Kobolds tho
Anyway, while I do agree CtA should be nerfed, I'd prefer it be nerfed to 2 minions instead of increasing the cost. Making it cost 5 would actually be a buff to Odd Paladin (letting them swarm even more and thinning their deck) rather than a nerf to the decks that currently run CtA. Making it recruit 2 minions would still keep it a playable card, but would give the opponent an actual chance to respond to that tempo, and wouldn't mess with the curve or Odd/Even shenanigans.
I'm also not sure if changing the upgraded Paladin hero power to a 2/2 is actually a nerf, because one way to currently give Odd Paladin a hard time is 1 damage AOE through stuff like Blood Razor, Despicable Dreadlord, Wild Pyromancer, Swipe etc. By dealing 1 damage to their current Hero Power, you're removing 1 damage from their board, but dealing 1 damage to a 2/2 doesn't remove any damage. As Rogue or Mage for instance, you'd take more damage pinging town a 2/2 over two turns vs pinging down two 1/1s. A 2/2 would deal 6 to a Rogue and 4 to a Mage, whereas two 1/1s would deal 3 to the Rogue and 1 to the Mage.
I don't think that Carnivorous Cube is that much of a problem only warlock is able to fully utilize the card so we must seek the problem in warlock because Carnivorous Cube is a neutral card it allows many game strategy for other classes.
Also hero powers are not really problem Odd hunter is not any better than previous face hunters.
Baku and Hunter are preventable aggro decks but their natural enemies get crushed by Spiteful decks and warlock.
But I cannot tell same for Genn Paladin it has busted cards with perfect curve. Sun Keeper Tarim Call to the arms etc.
Gonna say that all are decent nerfs , but only that hunter hero power is same as normal , what is point in upgrading hero power there?
Do it or do not , there is no try...
This thread is bad, really bad.
Perhaps hunter's hero power upgrade could be" deal 2 damage to a minion , but if your enemy has no minions, deal 3 damage to face. That would encourage control hunter like they are trying to do with other cards, but it wouldn't be exactly the same as mage.
I like the cube one. It prevents otk and promotes control. I think bizzard would like the idea.
Nerfing call to arms while leaving possessed lackey untouched is borderline retard. Look, I myself like the control games, but we need aggro for this game's health. Nerf them both at once or don't nerf them at all.
Spiteful summoner's nerf is a bit harsh. I say the better solution is to keep the cost and effect with a single errata change: If the spell costs 8 or more, summon a random 5 cost minion. Still powerful, but not degenerate.
Disclaimer: I LOVE control hunter. But this nerf is poorly done. You basically gave them Jaina's upgraded power, where is the novelty in that? Ditto for pala, a downgraded version of DK pala? Why even play that? It misses the spirit of class as well.
When the weak court death, they find it.
Spitefull nerf is silly, 8 mana is extreme. The pool of 10 mana cards is just too good atm, they'll problably dilute the pool next expansion.
The card is powerfull yea, but you have to build the deck around it.
I disagree on the Spiteful Summoner.
There's nothing wrong with that card, as there is a huge restriction to it.
1. It's takes a random spell
2. Because of the random part, you can only have expensive spells in your deck, which resticts you by a lot.
stop fucking crying u little kid and get good ...
Agree with some of the nerfs.
The Silver Hand recruit "nerf" will actually lead to other problems. Since 2/2 is more difficult to kill, it means they have more staying power and therefor higher chances of buffs. Imagine you have 3 or 4 2/2s on the board and you play Unidentified Maul with divine shield. Congrats, now you have to face multiple Shielded Minibot.
The Ballista Shot "nerf", should actually have been an ability for Hunters a long ago. They should have released a card that converts the hero power from deal damage to enemy hero to deal 2 damage. Steamwheedle Sniper should have made the ability permanent. But then, there might be concerns that Hunter can clear the enemy board while developing their own.
Carnivorous Cube should not exist in the game. Period. It is a card that people will always find a way to abuse. The effect needs complete alternation. People saying Cube is not the problem need to look at Cube Druid. No, it's not Taunt Druid. Its Cube Druid. The deck exists because of the Cube. If Cube didn't exist, the deck will be manageable. Since it will have two Hadronox combos and the combo pieces will be difficult to assemble. Right now you can face upto 7 Hadronox (I have faced 4 after silencing 1 Cube. That's four sets of taunt and 8 Lich King). Making the Cube silencing the minion before killing and summoning two minions doesn't solve anything. Silencing Doomguard does nothing. Silencing Voidlord does nothing, you still get two of back, only loosing 3 1/3s and that actually makes Bloodreaver better LoL! Silencing Hadronox does nothing because Druids can pop the Cube various ways and resummon two. As it turns out, Hadronox is easy to kill.
I do not like the proposed nerf here since Warlocks can just resummon the demons via Skull of the Minari. Druids can replay Hadronox and pop it.
CUBE IS THE PROBLEM. The power level is beyond any card before. As long as there are ways to resummon minions and kill your own minions, Cube will continue to be a problem. Another problem is that classes don't really have a way to deal will mass boards. If you can remove all the minions it will not be a problem. But but but, Hadronox and Voidlord are deathrattle minions and so is the Cube. Nevermind. There is no way out here, you're screwed. GG, WP. Just play Quest Rogue. The deck is so creative and requires tremendous amount of skill.
The remaining two nerfs, I agree with.
The whole op post is just a pile of salt ( although I do agree on Call to Arms and a little less harsh nerf on Spiteful Summoner ) but this bit is the funniest to me. So it seems that cards not only have to be situational in all decks....every card NEEDS to be situational in EVERY deck now ! Let's nerf Cube and make it situational in Cube decks ! xD
So let's go down the list this logic enables... Dragon's Fury is used in EVERY single BIg Spell Mage , let's nerf it and make it more situational instead of an auto include ! Baku the Mooneater is used in EVERY single Baku deck , let's nerf it so it's more situational in those decks ! Meat Wagon is used in every Meat Wagon deck , nerf it so it's not an auto include in those decks ! etc...
While the nerf seems at least reasonable ( you could still build different kinds of decks around the card ) the further proposed nerf of 8 mana is beyond ridiculous ( as opposed to ,,a little extreme,, ) . Even not nerfing the effect while making it 8 mana would make it one of the worst cards in game.
Carnivorous Cube doesn't need a nerf. The druid variant isn't even that powerful and it can be hard countered by Hex , Polymorph and even Tinkmaster Overspark since those add beasts that Witching Hour can ress instead of Hadronox . Those also help against demons in the warlock variant. Also..it's a lot harder for a warlock to cube anything if you destroy their Skull of the Man'ari . Or delete their Dark Pact with Skulking Geist . Learn to adapt instead of asking for nerfs every time something is powerful.
I think problem is not the cube, but rather cheating curve with Skull and lackeys. Cta should be either 6 mana or recruit 2 minions, othervise people just start play this in Baku pala. Speaking of which i think 2-2 dudes are still too strong, 2-1 should be enough. I'm fine with current hunter hp, they are not that strong. Spiteful nerf is great.
Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious! How many of these threads are there now? But this one has 5 nerfs. LMAO! This thread actually wants to nerf like 6-8 decks. Not 1 or 2 OP decks.... 8 (not counting their varrients). The OP is pretty much admitting that this is a pretty balanced meta... and it hasn’t even settled.
If every good deck needs to be nerfed, then no good deck needs to be nerfed. If you have this many problems with that many decks, maybe your just playing the wrong decks.
It is not lacky or dark pact that is a problem in cubelock, it is the potential burst from Doomguards.