First, too slow, second you need hand and third you need this card. Imo it's much worse than ppl think
It costs 2 mana and it's good value at practically ANY point in the game, how the hell can it possibly be too slow?
2 mana do nothing is good value how, exactly? You have to draw those cards for this card to have done something, and I can see no deck against which this is actually good.
Depending on hand size it could be amazing value...perhaps you are getting confused with tempo. 2 mana add however many cards to your deck isn't good tempo, it's amazing value. As far as decks this is good against, any deck you can take to fatigue, which may very much be in the cards. Control warrior has gotten a lot of tools already. So pretty much bad against Jade Druid. Which if the meta slows down will likely become really really strong, along with exodia mage.
Perhaps you don't know what value means, you could have 10x n'zoth in your deck thanks to this card and it would still amount to 0 value as long as they are in your deck, you aren't getting any value out of this the turn you play it, you aren't getting any value until you actually draw the cards you copied and you need them.
...I know exactly what value means. Just because it's not value right NOW doesn't mean it's not value. Listen I am not saying the card is good, I am saying it's worth experimenting with. But it IS value in deck built around fatigue. Will fatigue be good? I dunno, it certainly has hard counters right now. So perhaps not. I'll tell you this much though warrior has gotten some really strong draw enablers for Battle Shout. I don't think drawing cards is difficult.
I get what you are saying, if you are sitting on 7 cards by end game and your opponent has zero but kills you, then effectively you gained nothing from this card. You got NO value from those cards at all. Hell even if you win, those 7 cards are just sitting there in your deck having never been played. You aren't wrong necessarily. But looking at what warrior is trying to in this sort of deck it makes a lot of sense and provides a lot of potential value. Every card above 30, when you are trying to take things to fatigue is pure damage prevention, value. Additionally for every card you have left in your deck that he doesn't allows you to help secure the board which is important especially if he is ahead. his resources have dried up but you still get to draw. Also, copying cards that can cycle or draw along with other important spells like brawl help you to cycle into your third of fourth copy of brawl or execute or shield slam.
Again it could be utter crap. Though I think there is enough potential here to give it a go. Personally I am going to make a wild warrior mill deck :D
I think this card is bad in control warrior, the only 2 matchups where this would be useful is slow midrange paladin and control priest and maybe against burn mage if you get to shuffle and draw your armor cards. Seriously, you can beat aggro without this card and you're never beating jade druid even with this card. Elise is pretty much the less clunky version of this card in CW.
What I'm interested in is if we can see some kind of heavy cycle warrior deck, something akin to blood warriors arcane giants or worgen otk, where you can go through your whole deck in almost 7-8 turns while still maintaining health and board control. Some kind of deck with a huge amount of cycle where you can set up your hand to be some removal, cycle, arcane giants and 2 copies of dead man's hand and then during your next two turns cycle, remove stuff, play more arcane giants, add more cards to your deck, repeat. It definitely sounds to me like a card that can spawn some new kind of deck maybe, even if it just turns out to be a just for fun deck.
1: This card is, the turn you play it, 2 mana do nothing. Which means, if you draw it, you are accepting -1 card in your hand against aggro. Aggro shouldn't and won't be going away.
2: Having more cards in your deck isn't generally good until you have drawn the 30th card in your deck. Until that point, it is a disadvantage because it dilutes your chances of drawing the cards you want. In order for it to be good it needs to be doing something really specific, there would need to be a card that did something like become more powerful when you have more cards in your deck.
3: Fatigue isn't that impactful. It never has been. It is even less impactful now than it used to be. There is jade, yes. But there is also exodia mage. There is also spirit echo shaman. There is a long list of decks that you will never be able to fatigue, even if you manage to not lose to all of the aggro decks.
Everyone always gets hyped for these sorts of cards, gang up and prince malchezaar being prime examples. And they are always bad. And they aren't likely to get any better, because blizzard has continually shown us that they don't really want fatigue decks to exist, a philosophy I strongly agree with.
You are forgetting that no class can cycle through their deck as fast as warrior, if they want to. With this card, they can but still postbone fatigue. That's huge.
And -1 card versus aggro as some huge backdraw? I play CW (non-taunt) a lot and it's the best deck against aggro in the game, and it runs a bunch of cards that are dead against aggro. With this card you could make some kind of cycle warrior that's just runs through their deck like a madman while arcane gianting, and it would completely stomp aggro.... probably even more so than CW does now.
Yes. They spoke about it in the live stream. In fact Matt Place (designer or something like that) said that it will copy itself if you have both in your hand. So you can infinite with this.
1: This card is, the turn you play it, 2 mana do nothing. Which means, if you draw it, you are accepting -1 card in your hand against aggro. Aggro shouldn't and won't be going away.
2: Having more cards in your deck isn't generally good until you have drawn the 30th card in your deck. Until that point, it is a disadvantage because it dilutes your chances of drawing the cards you want. In order for it to be good it needs to be doing something really specific, there would need to be a card that did something like become more powerful when you have more cards in your deck.
3: Fatigue isn't that impactful. It never has been. It is even less impactful now than it used to be. There is jade, yes. But there is also exodia mage. There is also spirit echo shaman. There is a long list of decks that you will never be able to fatigue, even if you manage to not lose to all of the aggro decks.
Everyone always gets hyped for these sorts of cards, gang up and prince malchezaar being prime examples. And they are always bad. And they aren't likely to get any better, because blizzard has continually shown us that they don't really want fatigue decks to exist, a philosophy I strongly agree with.
You are forgetting that no class can cycle through their deck as fast as warrior, if they want to. With this card, they can but still postbone fatigue. That's huge.
And -1 card versus aggro as some huge backdraw? I play CW (non-taunt) a lot and it's the best deck against aggro in the game, and it runs a bunch of cards that are dead against aggro. With this card you could make some kind of cycle warrior that's just runs through their deck like a madman while arcane gianting, and it would completely stomp aggro.... probably even more so than CW does now.
You are making some very interesting broad statements. Yes, warrior can cycle through their deck pretty well if you build that way. But I think you are overestimating how quickly and consistently you can do it. Especially if you throw in dead man's hand. It isn't just dead against aggro, it does nothing on the turn you play it in any matchup, having it will hurt your consistency in being able to find those draw combos.
The question you have to ask yourself is, why do you actually need more than 30 cards in your deck? Can you not find a way to win in 30 cards? Why are you willing to hurt your deck's consistency with a card that is entirely worthless until you draw the 31st card from your deck?
I will re-iterate, very few hearthstone games ever make it to fatigue. Even jade druid, which has a ton of cycle power and a strong fatigue plan, rarely makes it to fatigue. Making your deck weaker in the 95% of games that don't go to fatigue so that you can win the 5% that do just doesn't check out. And if fatigue ever does become commonplace in the meta, Exodia mage and other similar decks with nearly unstoppable late-game plans are going to come in and put a stop to it.
yet another over hyped card.. yes you can go infinite, but you are spending 2 mana to do nothing rogue had gang up, saw exactly 0 play so yep..
good against control, no doubt, few matches go to fatigue nowadays though.
That's just it, Gang Up requires you to have already played the card you want to dupe (worse than this card) for just 3 extra cards maximum (worse than this card) and it couldn't duplicate spells (worse than this card) which means it couldn't duplicate itself (worse than this card). Gang Up is a fucking joke compared to this godly card.
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Fatigue Warrior won't be a thing as long as Fire Plume's Heart is more efficent and faster at finishing the game and this card rotates at the same time as the Quest, so I don't think this card will see much play. Also Warrior shapes up to become a strong Midrange class and this doesn't fit into it at all.
Saying this card doesn't fit into midrange is wrong. This will add copies of your midrange threats to your deck meaning you have a higher chance to win with them.
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yet another over hyped card.. yes you can go infinite, but you are spending 2 mana to do nothing rogue had gang up, saw exactly 0 play so yep..
good against control, no doubt, few matches go to fatigue nowadays though.
That's just it, Gang Up requires you to have already played the card you want to dupe (worse than this card) for just 3 extra cards maximum (worse than this card) and it couldn't duplicate spells (worse than this card) which means it couldn't duplicate itself (worse than this card). Gang Up is a fucking joke compared to this godly card.
Lol. If control warrior's problem was winning fatigue right now, this would be an amazing card. As is, it is overhyped to hell. Gang up found a home in a fun and unique deck. I dont know if we will say the same for this card. Jade druid still shits all over it.
1: This card is, the turn you play it, 2 mana do nothing. Which means, if you draw it, you are accepting -1 card in your hand against aggro. Aggro shouldn't and won't be going away.
2: Having more cards in your deck isn't generally good until you have drawn the 30th card in your deck. Until that point, it is a disadvantage because it dilutes your chances of drawing the cards you want. In order for it to be good it needs to be doing something really specific, there would need to be a card that did something like become more powerful when you have more cards in your deck.
3: Fatigue isn't that impactful. It never has been. It is even less impactful now than it used to be. There is jade, yes. But there is also exodia mage. There is also spirit echo shaman. There is a long list of decks that you will never be able to fatigue, even if you manage to not lose to all of the aggro decks.
Everyone always gets hyped for these sorts of cards, gang up and prince malchezaar being prime examples. And they are always bad. And they aren't likely to get any better, because blizzard has continually shown us that they don't really want fatigue decks to exist, a philosophy I strongly agree with.
Finally! I felt like I was the only madman here, you nailed the reasons why this card is bad perfectly. People get hyped by this kind of cards because they can't easily see the drawbacks, even thought they're huge.
Those drawbacks they listed aren't relevant though?
1.) There are lots of cards that you should almost never play on curve that are good. This is a bad reason to say a card isn't good.
2.) Specifically having more cards in your deck isn't impactful, but specifically putting certain cards you want into your deck is. Putting an unspecified card in your deck doesn't help you win while putting an extra Grom, Brawl, and Reno into your deck is extremely useful. You don't use it when it can dilute the odds of getting something you need, you use it to get another of something you need. This is a really narrow minded and poorly thought out reason to call this card bad.
3.) Fatigue really isn't what makes this card good. It blocking your own fatigue is neat and all but the fact that it does it by adding cards of your choosing to your deck is the real advantage to it.
You won't beat Jade with this, but if you were to duplicate an armor gain card enough you could actually gain enough armor to survive a combo turn from exodia mage since they still need to do their "infinite" damage within normal turn time.
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I'm already calling a nerf right now, this card should not exist, and for 2 mana? Bonkers.
My magic will tear you apart!
I'm so tempted to vote 'very good' on everything - lol - I don't know for you guys, but I'm getting hyped
"What have you got there,
PinocchioMalygos?"Yes! Finally a very good value card for warrior!
Looking forward to this.
I think this card is bad in control warrior, the only 2 matchups where this would be useful is slow midrange paladin and control priest and maybe against burn mage if you get to shuffle and draw your armor cards. Seriously, you can beat aggro without this card and you're never beating jade druid even with this card. Elise is pretty much the less clunky version of this card in CW.
What I'm interested in is if we can see some kind of heavy cycle warrior deck, something akin to blood warriors arcane giants or worgen otk, where you can go through your whole deck in almost 7-8 turns while still maintaining health and board control. Some kind of deck with a huge amount of cycle where you can set up your hand to be some removal, cycle, arcane giants and 2 copies of dead man's hand and then during your next two turns cycle, remove stuff, play more arcane giants, add more cards to your deck, repeat. It definitely sounds to me like a card that can spawn some new kind of deck maybe, even if it just turns out to be a just for fun deck.
Both cards in hand, elise and ton of control cards. Bad thingy if you combine with cthun
Yes. They spoke about it in the live stream. In fact Matt Place (designer or something like that) said that it will copy itself if you have both in your hand. So you can infinite with this.
This card looks pretty good, should never run into fatigue with this. lol
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
they actually are supporting fatigue warrior, I did not realise that was the plan, but they want a fatigue warrior. This will probably be good.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
awsome ... but, jade idol :/
you can say that about any control card that will ever be reveled in the future of HS
1 game could last until next xpac
Two copies in deck, play whenever both are in hand, benefit. Put in quest warrior for further meme potential.
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I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.
You don't use this to fatigue though. That's a bad plan. Ideally you have a closer that you duplicate and put back in your deck... probably C'thun.
I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.