I've never had trouble clearing Tuskarr Totemic or its spawn. Maybe get better at board clearing?
How you gonna clear on turn 3 a Tuskarr and a golem.. Its like gg if he gets a golem..
So, you mean the problem is the lack of removal and not tuskarr totem? ohhh, is great to see the light isn't it?
Stupid playerbase and their shortsightedness push the devs into stupid changes, like nerfing totemic instead of making totem golem 3/3 and giving a better neutral clear or improving older cards into multi-target clears.
Totem golem is fine. It's strong, powerful and a force to be reckoned with.
I don't like shaman now, I think it is silly to play and silly to play against... but totem golem doesn't bug me, even though it is a very strong minion on T2.
As long as games aren't steamrolled by tuskarr on T3 I'm not bothered... shaman is going to slow down wee bit now, which means more challenges from decks that just lacked that tiny bit of oomph that got steamrolled by a good tuskarr roll.
And yes, I see people are predicting mid-range shaman will be king of the meta, and though I have no doubt it will be strong, challenges will appear now that aggro shaman and mid-face shaman can't just blow stuff out of the water 30% of the time on T3/T2c
And all that is meaningless outside of this rotation because this is a short term "fix" more like complying to the stupid player base. The problems in the game are a lot deeper than a 14.28% chance of casting a 3/4 for free (with 7 totems the chance of casting a golem is roughly 14.28%)
I mean, the chance could be so EASY, just lower the chance of casting any of the non-basic totems, make them 10% chance each and 18% chance all the basic, if blizz enjoy RNG why they remove GOOD rng from the game? Just to keep the children quiet, nothing more.
Yes yes, everyone who disagrees with you are "stupid" and everyone should enjoy being steamrolled or steamrolling on T3 on a regular basis.
I feel like it was a bit overpowered pre nerf, but the nerf went a bit far perhaps. Maybe like "Summon a basic totem and give it +1 attack" or +1 health ,something along those lines may have been better.
And all that is meaningless outside of this rotation because this is a short term "fix" more like complying to the stupid player base. The problems in the game are a lot deeper than a 14.28% chance of casting a 3/4 for free (with 7 totems the chance of casting a golem is roughly 14.28%)
I mean, the chance could be so EASY, just lower the chance of casting any of the non-basic totems, make them 10% chance each and 18% chance all the basic, if blizz enjoy RNG why they remove GOOD rng from the game? Just to keep the children quiet, nothing more.
So let's run through the checklist:
1) Ad hominem attacks on other players as "stupid" and "children" who need to be kept quiet - Check!
2) Fuzzy math when claiming the problematic spawn for Tuskarr Totemic are limited to 14.28% while completely ignoring Mana Tide Totem and Flametongue Totem bringing us to a 43% of insane value on a minion and 57% of still decent value - Check!
3) Calling the fix "short sighted" when in reality the fix is probably better for design long term so when they make other non-basic totems the game isn't further broken - Check!
4) Calls instituting an unprecedented change in the way the basic rules of Hearthstone by setting tiers of chance (10% for this 18% for that) an "EASY" change - Check!
5) Has an avatar that succinctly states "DEAL WITH IT" - Check!
6) Aptly cries about a nerf when the poster in question is named "Stormcry" - Check!
Bottom line: Maybe you should take your own advice and "Deal with it". Tuskarr Totemic is now a "good card" with the nerf. It was in its orginal form a card with a low bottom floor but with incredibly high potential for value. With a basic totem and a 3/2 body you're still essentially getting 4 mana worth of value and an extra HP flip in some cases out a single 3-mana card. That's a "good" card. When you got a 3/2 body and a 3 mana "Draw a card and pseudo-taunt body" or the equivalent of a 3-mana Spider Tank body for 3-mana you were basically getting somewhere in the ballpark of 6-mana and 2-3 cards worth of value on a single card. That is just poor design; it highly rewards the slightly lucky 43% player while not punishing the slightly unlucky 57% player and required no set up like something like Ram Wrangler (a card I also dislike design wise but less than Totemic) who required a condition of having a beast in play be met along with being a 3/3 for 5 that could just as easily spawn a 1/1 as an 8/8 charge.
1) Ad hominem attacks on other players as "stupid" and "children" who need to be kept quiet - Check!
5) Has an avatar that succinctly states "DEAL WITH IT" - Check!
6) Aptly cries about a nerf when the poster in question is named "Stormcry" - Check!
`Not to agree with the other guy, but that's kinda hypocritical don't you think.
I think the nerf was warranted because Tuskarr did have potential to be insane and limits design space for future totem tribe cards. But I think it was made too weak the way it is now, would probably still have been balanced as a 3/3 or something.
1) Ad hominem attacks on other players as "stupid" and "children" who need to be kept quiet - Check!
5) Has an avatar that succinctly states "DEAL WITH IT" - Check!
6) Aptly cries about a nerf when the poster in question is named "Stormcry" - Check!
`Not to agree with the other guy, but that's kinda hypocritical don't you think.
I think the nerf was warranted because Tuskarr did have potential to be insane and limits design space for future totem tribe cards. But I think it was made too weak the way it is now, would probably still have been balanced as a 3/3 or something.
I don't think they're quite contrary points. #6 maybe was a bit of a low-blow but I think that choosing an avatar that says "DEAL WITH IT" illustrates the point of view that person is coming from which is a my-way-or-the-highway, can't be wrong one. #6 I think I just found ironic.
1) Ad hominem attacks on other players as "stupid" and "children" who need to be kept quiet - Check!
5) Has an avatar that succinctly states "DEAL WITH IT" - Check!
6) Aptly cries about a nerf when the poster in question is named "Stormcry" - Check!
`Not to agree with the other guy, but that's kinda hypocritical don't you think.
I think the nerf was warranted because Tuskarr did have potential to be insane and limits design space for future totem tribe cards. But I think it was made too weak the way it is now, would probably still have been balanced as a 3/3 or something.
I don't think they're quite contrary points. #6 maybe was a bit of a low-blow but I think that choosing an avatar that says "DEAL WITH IT" illustrates the point of view that person is coming from which is a my-way-or-the-highway, can't be wrong one. #6 I think I just found ironic.
I mean they are still technically both ad hominem attacks
I mean they are still technically both ad hominem attacks
Fair enough, but in reality ALL of my points 1-6 were meant to capture the totality of his demeanor so in that way I suppose you could say the entire first half of my post was one big ad hominem statement. I guess what I meant by #1 was less about the comments being ad hominem attacks and more about throwing out baseless insults to anyone who disagreed with him. I didn't think that pointing out a particularly in-your-face avatar was baseless. I do agree that my 6th point was a bit of a low-blow on my part.
1) picking on my avatar has nothing to do with the conversation does it? if you so much enjoy calling adhominems why do you even consider my avatar as a viable point into ANY conversation? It was funny, I like WoW's shaman, I prefer thrall over any other warlord, that's all about it's with my avatar. Meaningless points man...
2) Okey, I was being shitty about the general player base, but I tend to be, I'm sorry, I'm usually centered so I repeat, I'm sorry for saying mean or insulting words towards the general public or specific users. :/
Now, to the actual thing:
3) it's not fuzzy math, even at 43% there is more chance of casting a BAD totem, yeah, it's not good, it's not okey, is just a spell on a stick that without Thunderbluff is a somewhat useless 2 for 1 card and it's good only if you start adding other cards into work. Let's discuss what happens at the turn 3 of all the other classes shall we?
Hunter: turn 3 animal companion, a minion with a warantied 1 extra, some times pulling 4 direct damage or placing a 4/4 taunt (notice how relevant it's). That basic is useless against either of the 3 minions.
Mage: The okey mage: apprentice into 1 mana frostbolt, that basic totem is useless being the only minion on board after the bolt hit's tuskarr. The great mage: Flamewaker into coin into 2 free damage, into missiles for 3 damage into 2 free damage. both tuskar and the basic are freaking death.
Warlock: aggro feat discolock: either a peddler (with a free 1 mana spell) and room for many 1 mana spells. control-demo-reno-whatever: demonwrath waranted clear board.
Druid: innervate into nature-fukin' 4/6 of the claw or the token-ish deck: raven+mark into free draw (let's be real, most of the time druid's turn 3 it's 4 mana).
4) finally: Be honest with me, you honestly think cards's RNG is not manipulated into an specific way of rolling? Did you played with yogg when WotoG launched and then played it again 3 weeks from now? be honest with me and tell me you haven't seen a change in how it's chances are, because I do. I did the test with tuskarr, it throwed me totem golem more than the other 2 in more matches the earlier I played him in standard. While in Wild the earlier I played him the more it casted the heal-hero totem. out of 20 casts in wild this week, 8 times (consider that 8 is a really high considering each totem has the possibility of being casted 2.5 times during 20 castings of tuskarr) it was vitality totem.
NOTE: But okey, I agree that tuskar totemic could restrain the design space for future totem cards, so, I'm going to let it go, the change into only basic totem was good. BUT, BUT, BUT, leaving it as is, is not good, only people that constantly play shaman know how useless a basic totem can be, and at turn 3 without any other help is the same as not casting anything on him. Now, if tuskar gave him something, like that other user suggested (+1 attack or health, I would say giving it +1/+1 would be strong enough for a class card but weak enough to not be as powerful as the original tuskar).
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There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
The problem is even in the variety of other turn 3 plays you're referencing, you're talking about either lower value off one card or a 2+ card combo. The question isn't whether Sorcerer's Apprentice into Frostbolt is better than Tuskarr Totemic or something like Innervate + non-sense isn't; you need TWO cards minimum for those interactions.
The value of "a card" is a concept lost on a tremendous amount of the HS player-base and sadly I think it's lost on a lot of the HS Development Team as well. Arguably, the most important resource in a game of HS is your hero's Life and that's only because it is the determinant factor in whether you win or lose, but even Life is merely a resource meant to be spent and traded for other effects (i.e. Warlock's Lifetap, etc.). A full 2-3 mana card's worth of value for free 43% of the time for what in essence amounts to a 1-mana cost (assuming a vanilla 3/2 body is worth 2-mana). But that's even being too generous to the argument that Tuskarr didn't need a nerf because it's not "43% to get a 2-3 mana card and 57% to get nothing" it's much closer to "57% to get a perfectly reasonable, strong value turn 3 play and 43% to get a potentially game winning tempo shift" - that's ludicrous. Saying that the 4-basic totems are worthless is nonsense, the only one that's really a let down at that point tends to be the healing totem and even then versus mage, rogue, or druid it can be extremely strong is helping negate the effectiveness of their hero power. There are actual cards that give you an 0/2 taunt or 2x 0/2 taunts, and the 1/1 is essentially a better version of Paladin's Hero Power at this point as it has the racial trait of being a totem.
I really don't think the nerf to Tuskarr is going to make him unplayable, he is still a perfectly relevant 3 drop that is going to put 2x bodies into play, help power out Thing from Below, help fuel a Bloodlust strategy and just in general be a solid performer. He just isn't going to be the "Oops, I win!" that he has been.
Agree on the team5 lack of expertise on this subject. There are way too many cards that seem out of place if you have been playing card games for a long time. I would have directed the game in a completely different path regarding effects and stats of many many minions in this game.
Welp, not ALL the options I gave you require 2 or more cards, just some. And okey, let's say that's right, what can shaman do on turn 3 with 2 cards to step up to level? turn 1 trogg, turn 2 totem golem, turn 3 coin+ferals? so the very basic aggro shaman we had before WotoG, what else could he do? maybe an evolution shaman, pantry spider? it would die if you don't "evolve" right there, that means holding back the coin AND not casting a single card with overload or the combo has to wait another turn. Maybe just totems, play a 3/4 witch and hope she doesn't die to the mage or rogue removals. The first one is more of the same boring bs of always, the others seem like what always has affected shaman a "let's hope it doesn't die because I can't do anything else" position.
Bloodlust? It hasn't seen play sine Naxx, come on, friend...
ANd I really don't understand that "oopps I win!" thing, I have played with and against shaman a lot of matches and that never happened, a 3/2+3/4 was pretty strong yes, but it would die eventually, what made that play strong was the chance of playing thing from bellow right after leaving the 3/2 3/4 almost untouchable, and even so, in a real midrange strategy the other 2 totems were a better investment, you wanted to hit critical mass for turn 5-6, 3 extra face damage is cool, but not as cool as having hand advantage or a more even spread power around your minions, the 3/4 was just a beating stick that you must probably already had in play from turn 2.
All in all, I'm giving less and less relevance to this thing, I've been playing more and more magic and less HS every day, even the AI in magic duels play more interesting decks than the general decks I face in ranked here (incredible considering how horrible the AI in magic: Duels was) and with expansion every 5 months of around 300 cards, with no dust system (once you get all the possible copies of a card you never open it again you just keep opening new cards) I never feel robbed when using my gold.
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There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
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I feel like it was a bit overpowered pre nerf, but the nerf went a bit far perhaps. Maybe like "Summon a basic totem and give it +1 attack" or +1 health ,something along those lines may have been better.
1) Ad hominem attacks on other players as "stupid" and "children" who need to be kept quiet - Check!
4) Calls instituting an unprecedented change in the way the basic rules of Hearthstone by setting tiers of chance (10% for this 18% for that) an "EASY" change - Check!
5) Has an avatar that succinctly states "DEAL WITH IT" - Check!
6) Aptly cries about a nerf when the poster in question is named "Stormcry" - Check!
Bottom line: Maybe you should take your own advice and "Deal with it". Tuskarr Totemic is now a "good card" with the nerf. It was in its orginal form a card with a low bottom floor but with incredibly high potential for value. With a basic totem and a 3/2 body you're still essentially getting 4 mana worth of value and an extra HP flip in some cases out a single 3-mana card. That's a "good" card. When you got a 3/2 body and a 3 mana "Draw a card and pseudo-taunt body" or the equivalent of a 3-mana Spider Tank body for 3-mana you were basically getting somewhere in the ballpark of 6-mana and 2-3 cards worth of value on a single card. That is just poor design; it highly rewards the slightly lucky 43% player while not punishing the slightly unlucky 57% player and required no set up like something like Ram Wrangler (a card I also dislike design wise but less than Totemic) who required a condition of having a beast in play be met along with being a 3/3 for 5 that could just as easily spawn a 1/1 as an 8/8 charge.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
3) it's not fuzzy math, even at 43% there is more chance of casting a BAD totem, yeah, it's not good, it's not okey, is just a spell on a stick that without Thunderbluff is a somewhat useless 2 for 1 card and it's good only if you start adding other cards into work. Let's discuss what happens at the turn 3 of all the other classes shall we?
Hunter: turn 3 animal companion, a minion with a warantied 1 extra, some times pulling 4 direct damage or placing a 4/4 taunt (notice how relevant it's). That basic is useless against either of the 3 minions.
Mage: The okey mage: apprentice into 1 mana frostbolt, that basic totem is useless being the only minion on board after the bolt hit's tuskarr. The great mage: Flamewaker into coin into 2 free damage, into missiles for 3 damage into 2 free damage. both tuskar and the basic are freaking death.
Warlock: aggro feat discolock: either a peddler (with a free 1 mana spell) and room for many 1 mana spells. control-demo-reno-whatever: demonwrath waranted clear board.
Warrior: fierce money- laughs, shieldblock-laughs.
Druid: innervate into nature-fukin' 4/6 of the claw or the token-ish deck: raven+mark into free draw (let's be real, most of the time druid's turn 3 it's 4 mana).
4) finally: Be honest with me, you honestly think cards's RNG is not manipulated into an specific way of rolling? Did you played with yogg when WotoG launched and then played it again 3 weeks from now? be honest with me and tell me you haven't seen a change in how it's chances are, because I do. I did the test with tuskarr, it throwed me totem golem more than the other 2 in more matches the earlier I played him in standard. While in Wild the earlier I played him the more it casted the heal-hero totem. out of 20 casts in wild this week, 8 times (consider that 8 is a really high considering each totem has the possibility of being casted 2.5 times during 20 castings of tuskarr) it was vitality totem.
NOTE: But okey, I agree that tuskar totemic could restrain the design space for future totem cards, so, I'm going to let it go, the change into only basic totem was good. BUT, BUT, BUT, leaving it as is, is not good, only people that constantly play shaman know how useless a basic totem can be, and at turn 3 without any other help is the same as not casting anything on him. Now, if tuskar gave him something, like that other user suggested (+1 attack or health, I would say giving it +1/+1 would be strong enough for a class card but weak enough to not be as powerful as the original tuskar).
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
Nerfed. :)
The problem is even in the variety of other turn 3 plays you're referencing, you're talking about either lower value off one card or a 2+ card combo. The question isn't whether Sorcerer's Apprentice into Frostbolt is better than Tuskarr Totemic or something like Innervate + non-sense isn't; you need TWO cards minimum for those interactions.
The value of "a card" is a concept lost on a tremendous amount of the HS player-base and sadly I think it's lost on a lot of the HS Development Team as well. Arguably, the most important resource in a game of HS is your hero's Life and that's only because it is the determinant factor in whether you win or lose, but even Life is merely a resource meant to be spent and traded for other effects (i.e. Warlock's Lifetap, etc.). A full 2-3 mana card's worth of value for free 43% of the time for what in essence amounts to a 1-mana cost (assuming a vanilla 3/2 body is worth 2-mana). But that's even being too generous to the argument that Tuskarr didn't need a nerf because it's not "43% to get a 2-3 mana card and 57% to get nothing" it's much closer to "57% to get a perfectly reasonable, strong value turn 3 play and 43% to get a potentially game winning tempo shift" - that's ludicrous. Saying that the 4-basic totems are worthless is nonsense, the only one that's really a let down at that point tends to be the healing totem and even then versus mage, rogue, or druid it can be extremely strong is helping negate the effectiveness of their hero power. There are actual cards that give you an 0/2 taunt or 2x 0/2 taunts, and the 1/1 is essentially a better version of Paladin's Hero Power at this point as it has the racial trait of being a totem.
I really don't think the nerf to Tuskarr is going to make him unplayable, he is still a perfectly relevant 3 drop that is going to put 2x bodies into play, help power out Thing from Below, help fuel a Bloodlust strategy and just in general be a solid performer. He just isn't going to be the "Oops, I win!" that he has been.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
Welp, not ALL the options I gave you require 2 or more cards, just some. And okey, let's say that's right, what can shaman do on turn 3 with 2 cards to step up to level? turn 1 trogg, turn 2 totem golem, turn 3 coin+ferals? so the very basic aggro shaman we had before WotoG, what else could he do? maybe an evolution shaman, pantry spider? it would die if you don't "evolve" right there, that means holding back the coin AND not casting a single card with overload or the combo has to wait another turn. Maybe just totems, play a 3/4 witch and hope she doesn't die to the mage or rogue removals. The first one is more of the same boring bs of always, the others seem like what always has affected shaman a "let's hope it doesn't die because I can't do anything else" position.
Bloodlust? It hasn't seen play sine Naxx, come on, friend...
ANd I really don't understand that "oopps I win!" thing, I have played with and against shaman a lot of matches and that never happened, a 3/2+3/4 was pretty strong yes, but it would die eventually, what made that play strong was the chance of playing thing from bellow right after leaving the 3/2 3/4 almost untouchable, and even so, in a real midrange strategy the other 2 totems were a better investment, you wanted to hit critical mass for turn 5-6, 3 extra face damage is cool, but not as cool as having hand advantage or a more even spread power around your minions, the 3/4 was just a beating stick that you must probably already had in play from turn 2.
All in all, I'm giving less and less relevance to this thing, I've been playing more and more magic and less HS every day, even the AI in magic duels play more interesting decks than the general decks I face in ranked here (incredible considering how horrible the AI in magic: Duels was) and with expansion every 5 months of around 300 cards, with no dust system (once you get all the possible copies of a card you never open it again you just keep opening new cards) I never feel robbed when using my gold.
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign