Forbidden Healing: Poor (4). Sheer card disadvange, the healing rarely matters, and I'd rather pick Holy Light, which still sucks. Not to mention Forbidden Healing is epic, thus competing with many, much better cards.
Stand Against Darkness: Average (3): While it certainly is not a bad card, but there are a lot better common 5 drops. Spiteful Smith, Spectral Knight, Kvaldir Raider (yeah ok, not a true 5 drop), Pit Fighter, Stranglethorn Tiger and Silver Hand Knight come to my mind right now. Unless played on an empty board, you can usually expect one to die to ping and at least another one to a minion, leaving you with 5 mana 3x 1/1 and 1 damage to a minion of your opponents choice. Comparing it to Dark Wispers, 'd even tend to say below average, as you usually want the +5/+5 Taunt from the Whisper (so this is better than 5x 1/1), and still Dark Whispers is not better than average. Granted, it costs 6 instead of 5, but I think you get the idea.
Like I said, not bad, but certainly not above average in my opinion.
I'm not sure I get the card disadvantage part for Forbidden Healing because you always cast anything else for the turn FIRST, then use the remaining mana for the heal.
The reason I rated Stand Against Darkness a little higher was because it was for Paladin and they have SO many ways to buff minions. If I had to choose between some of the 5-drops you mentioned, then I might take a different pick - but that doesn't mean the card isn't good for this class.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I disagree with almost all of your ratings.. also you should rate depending on classes.. it's too early though also I would just remova the cultist we get it they don't impact arena so just removing them is fine.
Hogger, Doom of Elwynn will be a great card would rate 1, why? cause it has a value of a 8/8 at minimum and your opponent can't always deal with him, he counters mage and paladin hard in arena since they rely on partial removals if they can't remove it in one hit they are in trouble..
Forbidden Flame removal in arena is great specially when it's THAT flexible (1)
Forbidden Healing (5 terrible)- arena is a TEMPO game you gain 0 tempo from this card wasting a turn healing for 20 and nothing more is weak turn and it doesn't impact the board at all Holy Light isn't used.. why use this then?
Validated doom sayer terrible arena card that just get chipped for free or just outright destroyed, win more card and needs proper protecting behind a taunt, if you can do that it's great but it's arena you can't count on that.
Corrupted Healbot 1 excellent HP in arena isn't important but tempo is Pit Fighter is excellent, this card is stronger than Pit Fighter so this card is even better.
Eater of secrets (terrible 5)*
Polluted Hoarder (good 2) the cardgives card draw which is good in general in arena think of cult master, cult master is great in arena in certain decks, this one is a guranteed draw and never a useless top deck card, it can trade up into 5/4ss which is also a thing and it gives you a card it's an ok card.. maybe 3 tbh it's only ok.
Stand against darkness, agree 2 is just right.
Thanks for the feedback! I still wanted to include the C'thun cards so you could still look at the set in its entirety (and not everyone knows there are certain cards that won't be used in Arena). I'll try to address some of comments you made about the cards.
With Hogger, Doom of Elwynn I could probably go either way with him and if you've got him in a Priest deck, then I'd definitely rate him higher.
Forbidden Flame is a good card and I would certainly rate it higher if you could target your opponent (which would be insane). Mages have plenty of removal and this is just another one that can only target minions.
I used a 20-point Heal as an example with Forbidden Healing, but you certainly don't need to waste your turn like that. You always want to cast any minions or spells BEFORE you use this card. You could still leave yourself 3 mana and get the same healing as Holy Light. However, having the potential to heal for two-thirds of your life total is nothing to ignore.
I wouldn't say the Validated Doomsayer is terrible because he has an inherent Taunt built in. If he survives a turn that's great, but either way he will buy you a turn - and sometimes that's all it comes down to in Arena.
I do really like the Corrupted Healbot and initially had him at a 2(Good). I wouldn't go as high as a 1 rating, but I do think he's really good. If he hit the board any faster there may be less to worry about with giving your opponent free Heals, but it's likely he's going to help them more than you.
I could have probably went to the Terrible rating with [card]Eater of Secrets[/cards], but he still ends up being a 2/4 body at least. It probably wouldn't take too much to convince me. ;)
Maybe the Polluted Hoarder deserves to go up one rank, but definitely not two. He dies to pretty much everything and I just don't see him being an efficient use of mana.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I disagree with almost all of your ratings.. also you should rate depending on classes.. it's too early though also I would just remova the cultist we get it they don't impact arena so just removing them is fine.
Hogger, Doom of Elwynn will be a great card would rate 1, why? cause it has a value of a 8/8 at minimum and your opponent can't always deal with him, he counters mage and paladin hard in arena since they rely on partial removals if they can't remove it in one hit they are in trouble..
Forbidden Flame removal in arena is great specially when it's THAT flexible (1)
Forbidden Healing (5 terrible)- arena is a TEMPO game you gain 0 tempo from this card wasting a turn healing for 20 and nothing more is weak turn and it doesn't impact the board at all Holy Light isn't used.. why use this then?
Validated doom sayer terrible arena card that just get chipped for free or just outright destroyed, win more card and needs proper protecting behind a taunt, if you can do that it's great but it's arena you can't count on that.
Corrupted Healbot 1 excellent HP in arena isn't important but tempo is Pit Fighter is excellent, this card is stronger than Pit Fighter so this card is even better.
Eater of secrets (terrible 5)*
Polluted Hoarder (good 2) the cardgives card draw which is good in general in arena think of cult master, cult master is great in arena in certain decks, this one is a guranteed draw and never a useless top deck card, it can trade up into 5/4ss which is also a thing and it gives you a card it's an ok card.. maybe 3 tbh it's only ok.
Stand against darkness, agree 2 is just right.
Thanks for the feedback! I still wanted to include the C'thun cards so you could still look at the set in its entirety (and not everyone knows there are certain cards that won't be used in Arena). I'll try to address some of comments you made about the cards.
With Hogger, Doom of Elwynn I could probably go either way with him and if you've got him in a Priest deck, then I'd definitely rate him higher.
Forbidden Flame is a good card and I would certainly rate it higher if you could target your opponent (which would be insane). Mages have plenty of removal and this is just another one that can only target minions.
I used a 20-point Heal as an example with Forbidden Healing, but you certainly don't need to waste your turn like that. You always want to cast any minions or spells BEFORE you use this card. You could still leave yourself 3 mana and get the same healing as Holy Light. However, having the potential to heal for two-thirds of your life total is nothing to ignore.
I wouldn't say the Validated Doomsayer is terrible because he has an inherent Taunt built in. If he survives a turn that's great, but either way he will buy you a turn - and sometimes that's all it comes down to in Arena.
I do really like the Corrupted Healbot and initially had him at a 2(Good). I wouldn't go as high as a 1 rating, but I do think he's really good. If he hit the board any faster there may be less to worry about with giving your opponent free Heals, but it's likely he's going to help them more than you.
I could have probably went to the Terrible rating with [card]Eater of Secrets[/cards], but he still ends up being a 2/4 body at least. It probably wouldn't take too much to convince me. ;)
Maybe the Polluted Hoarder deserves to go up one rank, but definitely not two. He dies to pretty much everything and I just don't see him being an efficient use of mana.
That's why card should be according to cards that's how value charts go. I think hogger is underrated and is insane comparing him to dr. boom really people give the same claims they did when dr.boom was released ("huh he dies to bgh/hard removal/trading") but the card is quite insane if you are ahead and you play this it's game over most of the time, behind and the enemy doesn't have a 6 attack minion? great card can't be dealt with easily.. well I don't think it's in dr. booms level of OP but it's a very strong card that can't be dealt with easily that's why I think it's a 1.
Forbidden Flame well.. you can't target face but in arena having the ability to gain tempo is the most important part of the card so it's quite an amazing arena card.. most epics suck so it will probably be the best card most of the time.
I based my opinion on Holy Light which is ratted terrible most arena games are about tempo and card advantage and this card doesn't give you neither, hp is a resource since most opponents don't have realiable ways to burst you down HP isn't the best priority even if you restore all of it in one turn.. I get you that in a topdeck war and when you need a heal.. but really Guardian of Kings or Tuskarr Jouster would be superior to such card since they give you the amount of heal that matters most of the time AND tempo.. I would rate is terrible but if you think you would pick this card in arena.. put it higher.
Validated Doomsayer taunt status is a 0/7 the same can be said about the actual doomsayer but Doomsayer( I think the card can give you a tempo advantage if the enemy can't deal with it) is considered terrible so the taunt argument isn't too strong also a 0/7 taunt is worth 3 mana? not 5, if you are ahead it's a win more card.. it does win more but it's not a card I would pick personally since you have to win or have a taunt protecting it.
Corrupted Healbot yeah well I guess 2 is right.. but the drawback isn't very big in a tempo oriented game it sometimes can screw you so.. yeah 2 is ok 3 on hunter.
Eater of Secrets bad card only 3 classes play secrets and they don't always pick them and when/if they do you need to exacly have this card and you need to have the mana to play it too.. kinda bad and too situational for arena 2/4 for 4 is terrible
Polluted Hoarder well you are right.. I think the card deserves an average rating,(3) it's not as terrible as you think in some situations.. late game I would rather draw this than Loot Hoarder.
You are too afraid of putting cards in 1 or 5 huh? I get you you don't want to say a card is really good and then it's terrible or the other way around..
BTW
DOOM! is a bit too slow don't you think? arena doesn't have long control matchups so it isn't as bad, but I think that 10 mana? too much.
You are too afraid of putting cards in 1 or 5 huh? I get you you don't want to say a card is really good and then it's terrible or the other way around..
BTW
DOOM! is a bit too slow don't you think? arena doesn't have long control matchups so it isn't as bad, but I think that 10 mana? too much.
Nah, I just think *most* of the cards they release are average. It has to stand out at one end of the spectrum for me to give it a 1 or 5. If there were too many of either of these ratings I would say they had created a really unbalanced set.
I do agree that DOOM! is very slow, but it can definitely be a game winner!
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
You are too afraid of putting cards in 1 or 5 huh? I get you you don't want to say a card is really good and then it's terrible or the other way around..
BTW
DOOM! is a bit too slow don't you think? arena doesn't have long control matchups so it isn't as bad, but I think that 10 mana? too much.
Nah, I just think *most* of the cards they release are average. It has to stand out at one end of the spectrum for me to give it a 1 or 5. If there were too many of either of these ratings I would say they had created a really unbalanced set.
I do agree that DOOM! is very slow, but it can definitely be a game winner!
Yeah but it's nothing like Deathwing it can do something similar I agree and in arena you aren't a control deck so you tend to run out of cards as warlock.. it's a.. card? but wouldn't rate it at 1.. too slow in constructed it's terrible but in arena it has the potential to win you a losing game.. wouldn't call it excellent though.. it's mostly too slow.
You can't call deathrattle minions just the sum of its combined stats. Calling Infested Tauren a 4 mana 4/5 taunt is like calling Shielded Minibot a 2 mana 4/3. Its completely inaccurate and doesn't actually tell you anything about the card. Infested Tauren only ever has 2 attack on board at a time making it really a 4 mana 2/5.5.
How much the health of a deathrattle minion is actually equates to is debatable but its attack is always equal to 2 no matter how you look at it.
You can't call deathrattle minions just the sum of its combined stats. Calling Infested Tauren a 4 mana 4/5 taunt is like calling Shielded Minibot a 2 mana 4/3. Its completely inaccurate and doesn't actually tell you anything about the card. Infested Tauren only ever has 2 attack on board at a time making it really a 4 mana 2/5.5.
What I actually said was: "You're still basically getting a 4/5 minion overall, so that's still not bad."
Using the combined stats is useful here because you're talking about the overall value of the card compared to other similar costed cards, like Chillwind Yeti. Unless you silence Infested Tauren he will be able to ultimately be able to do 4 damage (at least) and take 5 damage to completely kill. With your Shielded Minibot example he could easily have his shield busted by a hero power and he's still just a 2/2.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I'm not sure I get the card disadvantage part for Forbidden Healing because you always cast anything else for the turn FIRST, then use the remaining mana for the heal.
The reason I rated Stand Against Darkness a little higher was because it was for Paladin and they have SO many ways to buff minions. If I had to choose between some of the 5-drops you mentioned, then I might take a different pick - but that doesn't mean the card isn't good for this class.
Card disadvantage refers to the amount of cards you have in play and in your hand, basically cards as a ressource just like health. If you manage to heal a minion so it survives attacking another one thanks to the heal, Forbidden Healing traded 1:1. If you heal the hero however, you go 0:1 and give your opponent card advantage. What you describe basically is tempo. It is really not different from Holy Light, which is card I'd never want to have in my paladin arena decks.
Stand Against Darkness and the buffs: True, but unless you're behind, you usually have no problem to buff one of your minions, so this wasn't really a factor for me to consider for this new card. Also, the only pala buff I'd like to use on a 1 health recruit is Blessing of Kings.
I wouldn't say the Validated Doomsayer is terrible because he has an inherent Taunt built in. If he survives a turn that's great, but either way he will buy you a turn - and sometimes that's all it comes down to in Arena.
I strongly disagree. If your Validated Doomsayer dies before you could attack, it is sheer disadvantage, unless you made your opponent burn some good removal spells on your 5 mana minion. However if it dies to minions (+ping), you just paid 5 mana for nothing. However I agreed to that rating since it shouldn't be hard to drop it in a situation where you force your opponent to waste some high quality removal, or let it live.
I also disagree on Infested Tauren and DOOM!
Infested Tauren: Poor (4). Getting a 2/3 and a 2/2 as deathrattle is not the same as a 4/5. It is more a 2/5, since you can't use the attack values the same time. And a 2/5 for 4 just sucks. Edit: I didn't see Garlicnerds post when I wrote this, had the site open for some minutes without reloading, but this is what I wanted to say. The divine shield example isn't fully compareable, but let me use a different example for deathrattles: Harvest Golem is a 2/3 and 2/1. Would you really consider it as a 4/4 for 3 mana? Probably not. Or Haunted Creeper: Is that a 2 mana 3/4? I doubt it. Or Nerubian Egg as a 4/4? Deathrattle summoned minions are just less in value, since the summon does not help the time it is played and you have the risk of silence or the opponent popping it when it is convenient for him.
DOOM!: Poor (4). Especially Warlocks do not need much card draw, since you'll often use Lifetap as a filler for your curve, so you are generally favoured with card draw against all other classes. That said, DOOM! is pretty much the same power level as Twisting Nether. Sometimes the card draw will be better (rarely, since when you want to cast it, it usually kills a few enemy minions and leaves you with card advantage already alone from the boardclear), sometimes Nether is better leaving you 2 extra mana to drop a 3/2 so you have at least something on board. Given that Twisting Nether is not really good in arena, DOOM! isn't either.
First of all, I love your presentation. Second, I'm not sure if sm else has mentioned this but C'Thun related cards will not be available in the drafting process. Third, I love from what I've seen so far. Every card presented is quite strong but not game-breaking. I know that Kezan is still stronger in arena, compared to Eater but you dont tech against secrets that much either way. Even Infested Tauren might seem weak but the fact that his deathrattle is a 2/2, makes you to at least consider him for experimentation. One thing that I wish after the expansion hits, is to get higher choice of epic cards, simply because most of them so far, are so sick for arena.
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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
First of all, I love your presentation. Second, I'm not sure if sm else has mentioned this but C'Thun related cards will not be available in the drafting process.
I appreciate the comments! Yes, in the rankings section I list beside each C'Thun card that it isn't used in Arena.
*Also, special thanks to DoubleSummon and Aeris for all their considered, detailed opposing viewpoints!
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
First of all, I love your presentation. Second, I'm not sure if sm else has mentioned this but C'Thun related cards will not be available in the drafting process.
I appreciate the comments! Yes, in the rankings section I list beside each C'Thun card that it isn't used in Arena.
*Also, special thanks to DoubleSummon and Aeris for all their considered, detailed opposing viewpoints!
Ow forgot to mention that the only thing I dont agree with is Polluted Hoarder ranked as poor. I'd say that this card is at least average to good as you can have a strong body on turn 4 to efficiently trade (no ping for that guy), while gaining some card advantage. Consider it a bit more plz :)
You can't call deathrattle minions just the sum of its combined stats. Calling Infested Tauren a 4 mana 4/5 taunt is like calling Shielded Minibot a 2 mana 4/3. Its completely inaccurate and doesn't actually tell you anything about the card. Infested Tauren only ever has 2 attack on board at a time making it really a 4 mana 2/5.5.
What I actually said was: "You're still basically getting a 4/5 minion overall, so that's still not bad."
Using the combined stats is useful here because you're talking about the overall value of the card compared to other similar costed cards, like Chillwind Yeti. Unless you silence Infested Tauren he will be able to ultimately be able to do 4 damage (at least) and take 5 damage to completely kill. With your Shielded Minibot example he could easily have his shield busted by a hero power and he's still just a 2/2.
I dont see how this is different. Oasis Snapjaw is ALSO very likely to deal 4 damage and always takes at least 7 damage to kill. Shielded Minibot in most cases will also do 4 damage and can, and should by your logic, be counted as a 4/3. Its no different from a 2/1 with Deathrattle summon a 2/2. And if you do force your opponent to use a hero power at such an early stage of the game rather than playing a 3/2 its actually EXTREMELY in your benefit. But that's beside the point, we both already know Shielded Minibot is a good card and would be infinitely worse if it was just a vanilla 4/3.
If you're up against a class without a ping, I'm guessing you STILL would count Mini differently from deathrattle, even though in those instances the two operate mechanically identically for whatever reason. Infested Tauren is a lower stated Oasis Snapjaw with half a taunt. Thats not something that can be reasonably argued. Both have health totals which make them difficult to remove with one attack and as a result will usually do 4 damage in their time on board. For that reason, by your logic, Oasis Snapjaw is a 4 mana 4/7. The problem with that is that if you play an Infested Tauren, that 4 damage isn't going on 1 minion most of the time. Its going on 2 or more individual minions making it mechanically identical to Oasis Snapjaw rather than Chillwind Yeti and THAT is the reason you can't add attack values of minions that are only on board one at a time.
Polluted Hoarder is probably the most controversial card so far. I have been very sceptical about him at start, but im starting to turn my view ever so slightly.
It is by no means an ideal 4 drop, but he might just be a very ok pick up. It will threaten pretty much any of your opponents 4 drops (considering that we usually play classes with ping hero power) and 4 face dmg will stack up very fast if ignored. But in the end, it rly is a Loot Hoarder 2.0. Even the worst and best case scenarios r exactly the same:
Have your Loot Hoarder kill an enemy 3/2 and feel like a boss or have it die to a hero power and be sad.
Have your Polluted Hoarder trade into an enemy 4 drop and get a pretty amazing value or die to a 2drop and feel bad.
The main thing is, its 4 mana and that is a lot. It might not seem like it, but it is. 2 mana is basically nothing, u just slam that Loot Hoarder and u dont care about it, u just want the card and if it trades - with pretty much anything - great! U cant rly think like that with 4 mana investment. So this is (at least for me) the card i am most excited about to see how it will do in the end :)
I dont see how this is different. Oasis Snapjaw is ALSO very likely to deal 4 damage and always takes at least 7 damage to kill. Shielded Minibot in most cases will also do 4 damage and can, and should by your logic, be counted as a 4/3. Its no different from a 2/1 with Deathrattle summon a 2/2. And if you do force your opponent to use a hero power at such an early stage of the game rather than playing a 3/2 its actually EXTREMELY in your benefit. But that's beside the point, we both already know Shielded Minibot is a good card and would be infinitely worse if it was just a vanilla 4/3.
If you're up against a class without a ping, I'm guessing you STILL would count Mini differently from deathrattle, even though in those instances the two operate mechanically identically for whatever reason. Infested Tauren is a lower stated Oasis Snapjaw with half a taunt. Thats not something that can be reasonably argued. Both have health totals which make them difficult to remove with one attack and as a result will usually do 4 damage in their time on board. For that reason, by your logic, Oasis Snapjaw is a 4 mana 4/7. The problem with that is that if you play an Infested Tauren, that 4 damage isn't going on 1 minion most of the time. Its going on 2 or more individual minions making it mechanically identical to Oasis Snapjaw rather than Chillwind Yeti and THAT is the reason you can't add attack values of minions that are only on board one at a time.
I'm just talking about the overall stat value of the card - giving you a 2/3 and a 2/2 minion. At the end of the day Shielded Minibot and Oasis Snapjaw are just one minion. Like every other minion they are going to vary in how much damage they actually do, depending on tons of variables.
Ultimately, I still think Infested Tauren is an okay card, but definitely nothing to go out of your way to draft.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I think what is missing in this discussion is to consider how many wins you aim for. Lets look at the Validated Doomsayer for example. It is a very risky minion. In some cases it survives a turn and in other cases you can lose a whole turn. The first situation might be more likely, however the drawback is really high if he does not survive one turn and you most likely lose the game. If you just consider a single game he might be okay, since in most cases the he is helping you more to win the game than losing the game. However, if you are infinite in arena and always try to get at least 7 wins and actually aim for more, a card that can loss you the game alone in some cases is not a good card. If you average 2-3 wins on the other hand you might appreciate such a risky play, since it helps you to get more wins.
I think what is missing in this discussion is to consider how many wins you aim for. Lets look at the Validated Doomsayer for example. It is a very risky minion. In some cases it survives a turn and in other cases you can lose a whole turn. The first situation might be more likely, however the drawback is really high if he does not survive one turn and you most likely lose the game. If you just consider a single game he might be okay, since in most cases the he is helping you more to win the game than losing the game. However, if you are infinite in arena and always try to get at least 7 wins and actually aim for more, a card that can loss you the game alone in some cases is not a good card. If you average 2-3 wins on the other hand you might appreciate such a risky play, since it helps you to get more wins.
This does not make sense to me. Everyone always aims to get as many wins as possible, no matter what one averages. Also I don't think you'd draft any different with a certain number of wins in mind. Not even Validated Doomsayer. If my deck has a good earlygame already, its value goes up, since I'm very likely to gain board control in the earlygame. Like I said before, if I get my opponent to waste a Fireball on it, I'm totally fine. I do not see this card as a potential to lose the game, since I would never play it when my opponent is able to kill it with minions from his board.
Sure, everyone tries to get as many wins as possible, but it is a Hugh difference, if you are an infinite Player who tries to fet to 12 wins every time or someone with a win rate <50% who is totally happy with 4-5 wins. Maybe the Validated Doomsayer is not the best example to make it clear. Therefore i make a theoretical example. Assuming their is a minion which has so much potential that this Card alone wins you 50 % of all games, but on the other Hand it has a possible downside, which is so Hugh that you lose 30% of all games. For the infinite Player, who has a win rate of 70 % and aims for 12 wins it is not a good Card. For the guy with win rate <50% this Card is really good. Of Course such a Card doesn't exist, but my Point is that with a higher win rate you value risky Cards different. And Validated Doomsayer has a quite high risk (or maybe variance is the better word) than other Cards. But don't get me wrong, it is not such a Hugh aspect, that it completely changes the Quality of a Card. I would write something to the Points you made about Validated Doomsayer, but i have an appointment. Maybe later ;)
N'Zoth's Tentacle is better than you think because it's deathrattle can be used to weaken your opponent's board for better traiding and you can drop your minions after the deathrattle, giving you the advantage.
N'Zoth's Tentacle is better than you think because it's deathrattle can be used to weaken your opponent's board for better traiding and you can drop your minions after the deathrattle, giving you the advantage.
Sure, it *could*. But like I said, it's a little too situational for me to rate it higher.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
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I'm hyped AF.
C'mon molten giant!
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
You can't call deathrattle minions just the sum of its combined stats. Calling Infested Tauren a 4 mana 4/5 taunt is like calling Shielded Minibot a 2 mana 4/3. Its completely inaccurate and doesn't actually tell you anything about the card. Infested Tauren only ever has 2 attack on board at a time making it really a 4 mana 2/5.5.
How much the health of a deathrattle minion is actually equates to is debatable but its attack is always equal to 2 no matter how you look at it.
Lets say the deathrattle lets Infested Tauren have anywhere from 5 to 7 health on average. That just makes it beneath Oasis Snapjaw or Maiden of the Lake most of the time.
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Edit: I didn't see Garlicnerds post when I wrote this, had the site open for some minutes without reloading, but this is what I wanted to say. The divine shield example isn't fully compareable, but let me use a different example for deathrattles: Harvest Golem is a 2/3 and 2/1. Would you really consider it as a 4/4 for 3 mana? Probably not. Or Haunted Creeper: Is that a 2 mana 3/4? I doubt it. Or Nerubian Egg as a 4/4? Deathrattle summoned minions are just less in value, since the summon does not help the time it is played and you have the risk of silence or the opponent popping it when it is convenient for him.
Arena Leaderboard EU - September 2018: #47 (@7.77 Wins Average)
First of all, I love your presentation. Second, I'm not sure if sm else has mentioned this but C'Thun related cards will not be available in the drafting process. Third, I love from what I've seen so far. Every card presented is quite strong but not game-breaking. I know that Kezan is still stronger in arena, compared to Eater but you dont tech against secrets that much either way. Even Infested Tauren might seem weak but the fact that his deathrattle is a 2/2, makes you to at least consider him for experimentation. One thing that I wish after the expansion hits, is to get higher choice of epic cards, simply because most of them so far, are so sick for arena.
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Polluted Hoarder is probably the most controversial card so far. I have been very sceptical about him at start, but im starting to turn my view ever so slightly.
It is by no means an ideal 4 drop, but he might just be a very ok pick up. It will threaten pretty much any of your opponents 4 drops (considering that we usually play classes with ping hero power) and 4 face dmg will stack up very fast if ignored. But in the end, it rly is a Loot Hoarder 2.0. Even the worst and best case scenarios r exactly the same:
The main thing is, its 4 mana and that is a lot. It might not seem like it, but it is. 2 mana is basically nothing, u just slam that Loot Hoarder and u dont care about it, u just want the card and if it trades - with pretty much anything - great! U cant rly think like that with 4 mana investment. So this is (at least for me) the card i am most excited about to see how it will do in the end :)
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I think what is missing in this discussion is to consider how many wins you aim for. Lets look at the Validated Doomsayer for example. It is a very risky minion. In some cases it survives a turn and in other cases you can lose a whole turn. The first situation might be more likely, however the drawback is really high if he does not survive one turn and you most likely lose the game. If you just consider a single game he might be okay, since in most cases the he is helping you more to win the game than losing the game. However, if you are infinite in arena and always try to get at least 7 wins and actually aim for more, a card that can loss you the game alone in some cases is not a good card. If you average 2-3 wins on the other hand you might appreciate such a risky play, since it helps you to get more wins.
Arena Leaderboard EU - September 2018: #47 (@7.77 Wins Average)
Sure, everyone tries to get as many wins as possible, but it is a Hugh difference, if you are an infinite Player who tries to fet to 12 wins every time or someone with a win rate <50% who is totally happy with 4-5 wins. Maybe the Validated Doomsayer is not the best example to make it clear. Therefore i make a theoretical example. Assuming their is a minion which has so much potential that this Card alone wins you 50 % of all games, but on the other Hand it has a possible downside, which is so Hugh that you lose 30% of all games. For the infinite Player, who has a win rate of 70 % and aims for 12 wins it is not a good Card. For the guy with win rate <50% this Card is really good. Of Course such a Card doesn't exist, but my Point is that with a higher win rate you value risky Cards different. And Validated Doomsayer has a quite high risk (or maybe variance is the better word) than other Cards. But don't get me wrong, it is not such a Hugh aspect, that it completely changes the Quality of a Card. I would write something to the Points you made about Validated Doomsayer, but i have an appointment. Maybe later ;)
N'Zoth's Tentacle is better than you think because it's deathrattle can be used to weaken your opponent's board for better traiding and you can drop your minions after the deathrattle, giving you the advantage.
Mrgle mrgle
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack