Tentacles for arms is terrible even in area because it costs 5 mana for a 2/2 weapon that is awful, the only way I see the card being good is if you have no cards left other wise it is terrible there is no way in hell this card is excellent.
I agree the cost is high, but it's a weapon that can be reused, so it gives you options.
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"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I have made updates to my initial ratings on the cards based on feedback from this thread (Sorry AbusingKel - I know you're probably in the middle of your comments)!
Thanks to everyone for some valuable discussion about what makes these cards so great (or not so great)!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Polluted Hoarder : Rated above as 3(Average), I think this card needs more merit among the draw cards. 2 health that survives pings, and 4 attack on a draw card is more useful than 2 attack of Gnomish Inventor because it trades with larger minions or pushes for quicker lethal. Comparison with Cult Master is difficult, but they rate about the same. while Cult Master benefits off those Spectral Spider and Silver Hand Recruit, generally aggro decks in Arena just want to push for lethal than to have to trade off minions. On the other hand, there's also the immediacy of draw in Cult Master, so they should be rated about the same. I'd say its Tier 2 (65)
N'Zoth's First Mate : Rated above as 1(Excellent), it becomes a TERRIBLY clunky draw if drawn late, occupies the weapon slot if you have Fiery Win Axes or Arcanite SMORCer in hand. Still a very good card as it trades with a 3/2 effectively while activating those executes, but the 1-drop deserves far too much merit than it should. I will still put it at Tier 1 (75)
Tentacles for Arms : Rated above as 1(Excellent), revised to 3(Average). It's useless as reach because its uncommon to put your opponent to 6 health (when you can use this to kill in 3 hits) without having some control of the board already. As removal, this doesn't kill midrange minions, and this uses up the weapon slot so you can't use it with your other axes on top of this being too slow. I put this at Tier 5 (15)
Cult Apothecary : Rated above as 2(Good). The hell. You don't heal in Arena unless you already drafted enough board wipes and value Krakens or Ysera. This card is not only dependent on deck drafted, but also the size of opponent's board, making the heal much less worthwhile when you have sufficiently recovered the board. Only redeeming factor is the 4/4 body in a 5 mana card. I rate it Tier 4 (40)
I say the Thing from Below isn't that good in Arena, because it doesn't let you play by taking the tempo initiative (by hero powering). Shaman really struggles to regain board from a losing situation without common AoEs. The 5/5 stat is still great, I concede. Especially the 5 attack that punches through all the notable taunts: Sludge Belcher, Taz'Dingo and Sunwalker. I put it at tier 3-4, not Tier 2 as you did (maybe 50?)
I was really puzzled how good Vilefin Inquisitor is and i am still not sure. I agree with op that it is basically a vanilla 1/3, but i disagree that it can trade up. It can't kill a 2/3 or 3/2. However, it can handle almost all 1 drops. Since 2 drops are more common than 1 drops i would rather think that he is poor, at the most decent, but not good. He is worse than a Warbot and that guy is not rated very high as well.
Vilefin inquisitor got a huge benefit in arena- it resets your hero power .. And which type of cards are the most powerful in arena? Inspire and discover! Not to mention you can just generate more tokens late game which is quite valuable.. Also murloc synergy, why not..
Would rate the 3/3 of the paladin higher too since it works withyour hero power and adds a lot of value to it, it also has soft taunt
Vilefin inquisitor got a huge benefit in arena- it resets your hero power .. And which type of cards are the most powerful in arena? Inspire and discover! Not to mention you can just generate more tokens late game which is quite valuable.. Also murloc synergy, why not..
Would rate the 3/3 of the paladin higher too since it works withyour hero power and adds a lot of value to it, it also has soft taunt
It resets it once and u will get 2x 1/1 + 1/3 for 5 mana, thats pretty bad if u ask me. Im not saying that card is worst there is, but its definitely looooow in terms of value of epic cards. It will be pretty draft dependent, if u picked up some buffing murlocs, the card will obviously rise in value, if u picked up minions that buff recruits, it will decrease even more.
Vilefin inquisitor got a huge benefit in arena- it resets your hero power .. And which type of cards are the most powerful in arena? Inspire and discover! Not to mention you can just generate more tokens late game which is quite valuable.. Also murloc synergy, why not..
Would rate the 3/3 of the paladin higher too since it works withyour hero power and adds a lot of value to it, it also has soft taunt
It resets it once and u will get 2x 1/1 + 1/3 for 5 mana, thats pretty bad if u ask me. Im not saying that card is worst there is, but its definitely looooow in terms of value of epic cards. It will be pretty draft dependent, if u picked up some buffing murlocs, the card will obviously rise in value, if u picked up minions that buff recruits, it will decrease even more.
it's valuable with inspire* and you want to hero power on paladin a lot when running out of cards it's value in the end.
and procing inspire? it's really good.. would put it as "good" not great.. but good it also quite good against tokens and stronger than other 1 dops..
he is also in the epic slot which contains many cards that are terrible.
Oh, i didn't consider the aspect to have a potential double hero power once. As Sinti pointed out you can do it just once, so in many situations it is not that much of a big deal, but with Inspire minions on board it can be really nice. Quite situational.
However, if we neglect this, what do you think how good is a vanilla 1/3?
@OP: I would like to make a suggestion. The more Cards are revealed the harder it gets to follow your updates. One Problem is that we don't get a notification when you update your list. The other Problem is that the list contain more and more minions and it takes longer to search for the new Cards. Moreover, if we discuss Cards and your assessment it is necessary to go back to the first page to read your comment on the Card. Therefore i would suggest that whenever you update your list with new minions then you make a short post with your assessment in addition. That would solve formentioned Problems.
Vanilla 1/3 is definitely okay just as extra target for those pally buffs, so this definitely rates higher than Warbot. Regarding double hero power... only works if you have this and Kvaldir Raider or Mrglgl Knight in hand both at turn 10/9. Not happening. Tier 4 (40)
However, if we neglect this, what do you think how good is a vanilla 1/3?
Vanlilla 1/3 (without any additional ability) in non-ping class is probably worse then a 2/1, cause 99% of the time, u will donate that card to your opponent for free or will use it as a "ping" itself. In ping classes, its ok, average.
Considering I have a lot of love for threads like this, I have linked this thread to one that I put together earlier tonight, a thread that lists each and every card you can get through Discover effects, with updates promised for each card that comes out that fits the parameters of cards with the Discover mechanic. This kind of discussion is quite healthy for the community as a whole, and as such, is necessary for people to even just take a gander at for a moment. Feel free to take a look, if you like cards like Jeweled Scarab and Ethereal Conjurer.
I have to say, Blizzard have been unveiling a lot of nice arena cards recently, albeit a lot of them rare or epic, so less likely to have a big impact. The last three - Ravaging Ghoul, Mire Keeper and Hammer of Twilight all look like really solid picks. Nice to see warriors continuing to get decent commons.
Shadow Word: Horror is a cheap conditional AoE and it's nice to have variety in that area (aka depending on your choices, as a one of could be good).
Steward of Darkshire; I'd even consider it good simply because his stats make it playble on turn 3. I wouldn't pick it over Aldor Peacekeeper or Muster for Battle but it has high chance to be a great pick simply because it synergises with the hero power and other mass-summoning cards.
Showdown word horror kills you own minions and hardly kills any minions at all, it is too hard to combo it with anything besides your hero power as there are very few 1 health minions and tentacle can be played on turn one making it far less of a threat to your own minions.
Shadow Word: Horror is a cheap conditional AoE and it's nice to have variety in that area (aka depending on your choices, as a one of could be good).
Steward of Darkshire; I'd even consider it good simply because his stats make it playble on turn 3. I wouldn't pick it over Aldor Peacekeeper or Muster for Battle but it has high chance to be a great pick simply because it synergises with the hero power and other mass-summoning cards.
Shadow Word: Horror... I hope you're not serious. It is a beyond bad card, because you will rarely see 2 or more 2 attack minions on their side. If there were any, they would've been bullied already by your minions + healing from hero power. As a comparison, Shadow Madness is a strictly better card because it kill a 3 attack minion to trade with another 3 health minion, giving value of 2 minions similar to Shadow Word: Horror. Furthermore, anti-synergy with low attack minions you want to draft like Northshire Cleric.
Steward of Darkshire have a 3/3 stat so I agree it's at least average, but its effect is so niche. Compare with Silver Hand Regent, would you rather have two 1/1ss or an argent squire? If you drafted Blessing of Kings or gg musters, the latter may be better, but as a stand-alone I would prefer the Regent. I'd rate it lower, slightly.
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
Less Keeper. That's good.
I have made updates to my initial ratings on the cards based on feedback from this thread (Sorry AbusingKel - I know you're probably in the middle of your comments)!
Thanks to everyone for some valuable discussion about what makes these cards so great (or not so great)!
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
I disagree with some of the ratings made above:
Polluted Hoarder : Rated above as 3(Average), I think this card needs more merit among the draw cards. 2 health that survives pings, and 4 attack on a draw card is more useful than 2 attack of Gnomish Inventor because it trades with larger minions or pushes for quicker lethal. Comparison with Cult Master is difficult, but they rate about the same. while Cult Master benefits off those Spectral Spider and Silver Hand Recruit, generally aggro decks in Arena just want to push for lethal than to have to trade off minions. On the other hand, there's also the immediacy of draw in Cult Master, so they should be rated about the same. I'd say its Tier 2 (65)
N'Zoth's First Mate : Rated above as 1(Excellent), it becomes a TERRIBLY clunky draw if drawn late, occupies the weapon slot if you have Fiery Win Axes or Arcanite SMORCer in hand. Still a very good card as it trades with a 3/2 effectively while activating those executes, but the 1-drop deserves far too much merit than it should. I will still put it at Tier 1 (75)
Tentacles for Arms : Rated above as 1(Excellent), revised to 3(Average). It's useless as reach because its uncommon to put your opponent to 6 health (when you can use this to kill in 3 hits) without having some control of the board already. As removal, this doesn't kill midrange minions, and this uses up the weapon slot so you can't use it with your other axes on top of this being too slow. I put this at Tier 5 (15)
Cult Apothecary : Rated above as 2(Good). The hell. You don't heal in Arena unless you already drafted enough board wipes and value Krakens or Ysera. This card is not only dependent on deck drafted, but also the size of opponent's board, making the heal much less worthwhile when you have sufficiently recovered the board. Only redeeming factor is the 4/4 body in a 5 mana card. I rate it Tier 4 (40)
My greatest achievement yet:
Not disenchanting my double Shadowbomber
Thing from Below, Master of Evolution: They r both rare, but H-O-L-Y S-*-*-T. Some powerful stuff.
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I say the Thing from Below isn't that good in Arena, because it doesn't let you play by taking the tempo initiative (by hero powering). Shaman really struggles to regain board from a losing situation without common AoEs. The 5/5 stat is still great, I concede. Especially the 5 attack that punches through all the notable taunts: Sludge Belcher, Taz'Dingo and Sunwalker. I put it at tier 3-4, not Tier 2 as you did (maybe 50?)
My greatest achievement yet:
Not disenchanting my double Shadowbomber
Why would Xaril,Poisoned Mind be good in arena? It seems the terrible 4 drop stats would outweigh the benefits
I was really puzzled how good Vilefin Inquisitor is and i am still not sure. I agree with op that it is basically a vanilla 1/3, but i disagree that it can trade up. It can't kill a 2/3 or 3/2. However, it can handle almost all 1 drops. Since 2 drops are more common than 1 drops i would rather think that he is poor, at the most decent, but not good. He is worse than a Warbot and that guy is not rated very high as well.
Vilefin inquisitor got a huge benefit in arena- it resets your hero power .. And which type of cards are the most powerful in arena? Inspire and discover! Not to mention you can just generate more tokens late game which is quite valuable.. Also murloc synergy, why not..
Would rate the 3/3 of the paladin higher too since it works withyour hero power and adds a lot of value to it, it also has soft taunt
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
Oh, i didn't consider the aspect to have a potential double hero power once. As Sinti pointed out you can do it just once, so in many situations it is not that much of a big deal, but with Inspire minions on board it can be really nice. Quite situational.
However, if we neglect this, what do you think how good is a vanilla 1/3?
@OP: I would like to make a suggestion. The more Cards are revealed the harder it gets to follow your updates. One Problem is that we don't get a notification when you update your list. The other Problem is that the list contain more and more minions and it takes longer to search for the new Cards. Moreover, if we discuss Cards and your assessment it is necessary to go back to the first page to read your comment on the Card. Therefore i would suggest that whenever you update your list with new minions then you make a short post with your assessment in addition. That would solve formentioned Problems.
Vanilla 1/3 is definitely okay just as extra target for those pally buffs, so this definitely rates higher than Warbot. Regarding double hero power... only works if you have this and Kvaldir Raider or Mrglgl Knight in hand both at turn 10/9. Not happening. Tier 4 (40)
My greatest achievement yet:
Not disenchanting my double Shadowbomber
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
Considering I have a lot of love for threads like this, I have linked this thread to one that I put together earlier tonight, a thread that lists each and every card you can get through Discover effects, with updates promised for each card that comes out that fits the parameters of cards with the Discover mechanic. This kind of discussion is quite healthy for the community as a whole, and as such, is necessary for people to even just take a gander at for a moment. Feel free to take a look, if you like cards like Jeweled Scarab and Ethereal Conjurer.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/129414-discover-old-gods-value-and-what-each-discover
Peace out.
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Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
I have to say, Blizzard have been unveiling a lot of nice arena cards recently, albeit a lot of them rare or epic, so less likely to have a big impact. The last three - Ravaging Ghoul, Mire Keeper and Hammer of Twilight all look like really solid picks. Nice to see warriors continuing to get decent commons.
Consider to put Shadow Word: Horror and Steward of Darkshire as average and Tentacle of N'Zoth as poor.
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Showdown word horror kills you own minions and hardly kills any minions at all, it is too hard to combo it with anything besides your hero power as there are very few 1 health minions and tentacle can be played on turn one making it far less of a threat to your own minions.
Edit: fixed typos
Mrgle mrgle
My greatest achievement yet:
Not disenchanting my double Shadowbomber