Maybe I've just been getting really really bad variance here but let me explain what I've experienced this season in standard:
I've seen some crazy zoo lock decks with an even greater ability to flood the board than before combined with the new 3 mana 1/5 Darkshire Councilman
I've seen face shaman play a 4 mana 7/7 on curve and kill me by turn 6
I've seen freeze mage burst me down from full life with nothing but an Emperor tick on his hand (the last game I just played was freeze mage vs dragon priest. I would have lost had he had either one more spell in hand OR Thalnos)
I've seen divine shield 1 health spammy zoo paladin draw 5 cards on me when I FINALLY have cleared their board which gave them the exact two damage they needed to win
What I don't understand is why the meta has become even more aggro oriented than before (freeze mage being the exception but I don't think most freeze mages would survive until turn 10 against the rest of those decks like they usually do against my slower midrange/control decks). Everybody claimed the meta was going to slow down. I guess the last couple of cards they released really pushed the aggro meta game? I'll go into specific detail for things I don't quite understand.
Against Paladin: I cannot for the life of me figure out why divine favor wasn't touched in the nerfs. That just screams blatant aggro auto include. Blizzard's statement on the matter was that "It's okay for there to be cards in the game that punish being ahead like Mind Control Tech" What? Are you crazy? If aggro paladin has played divine favor and drawn 3-5 cards then it most likely means they have already vomited their entire hand onto the board, dealt you shit tons of face damage, and are possibly still ahead since it's really difficult to clear divine shield creatures. Divine Favor doesn't punish you for hoarding cards, it rewards aggro for playing too fast to keep a hand. I mean it can be used as a comeback mechanic also but it's very different than MCT. MCT your opponent physically has to have already met a certain requirement by flooding their board full of minions. Divine favor is nothing like MCT. Sure your opponent can play around it but even if you're trying to empty your hand as fast as possible it's very likely that paladin can still draw more than 2 cards from it. I don't particularly have an issue with any other card in the aggro decklist as the rest seem okay to me. It can be annoying to get rallying blade-ed but I mean you probably didn't clear their Darkshire whatever it's called
Zoo lock: What even in the world were they thinking printing a card like Darkshire councilman? It has its weaknesses sure like Cabal and whatnot but if played on curve with a forbidden ritual next turn it can be absolutely devastating. Zoo lock already has the capability to flood the board with sticky minions and it feels really really bad when they have something like turn 5 darkshire into double possessed villager (or any two one cost creatures). That stops cabal from working and killing a 5 health creature is no easy task.
Face Shaman: 4 mana 7/7. I think that's really all that needs to be said BUT I'll go into detail before people scream "JUST REMOVE IT MAN!". The 4 mana 7/7 by itself is not overpowered. What is OP is that usually against face shaman they spend the first three turns playing some aggressive minions that take complete board control. Tunnel Trog is an INSANE card. Absolutely insane card. It usually trades up against anything you can play in the early game. The thing about the 4 mana 7/7 is that usually by turn 4 you don't have board control. Control decks will have spent the early turns trying to clear the board as much as possible and will usually find themselves unable to develop many minions. Playing minions can sometimes get you punished anyway if they have something like turn 1 tunnel trog into turn 2 coin feral spirits. Usually will kill your 1 drop outright and sets them up with complete board control. Then when they drop the 4 mana 7/7, you have to waste another turn with removing it and sacrificing even more health and board control. Turn 5 feels bad when you're forced into playing SW:D into some mediocre two drop that will get effectively countered by whatever they have on the board.
The control situation: It feels like Blizzard really shafted control decks this expansion. We had a lot of our key cards like sludge belcher and healbot removed with no cards to really compensate. It seems like they made the control decks less powerful but still gave aggro new tools to play with. A big factor into control's struggle against aggro is the fact that a lot of the powerful aggro cards have high health. Tunnel Trogg and Darkshire councilman are pretty good examples. I think if Blizzard had printed a 1 mana 3/4 "Your opponent is immune" creature, control decks would be okay with the early game. The immune factor also leads into aggro not being able to use it since a control deck could just leave it on the board and be immune until they can get a huge board swing.
They removed a shit-ton of anti-aggro cards then they gave Zoo/Face Shamans more toys. Silly Blizz should have rotated some cards to Classic set instead of out of Standard.
I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't think this is an aggro meta at all. Most of my games go at least 10 turns unless I'm also playing a tempo deck that aims to win around turn 8. Im seeing more mr shaman than aggro, zoo has been no trouble to me at all, regardless of what deck I'm playing. I see lots of c'thun decks that aren't great decks and they are control. Tempo Warriors also are not aggro. The only hunters I see are mr or are running n'Zoth, certainly not face. Tempo mages are a pretty rare sight and they are an aggressive deck but not a face deck.
I don't understand people saying it's an aggro meta, people just call every meta an aggro meta because they don't track games and because they dislike them, there is a bias and they remember it more. The human brain is notoriously bad at keeping count of things like this.
As far as councilman and flamewreathe, every class has answers. It's not like either of those cards are secrets, every deck runs them, you have to prepare for them starting at mulligan. Every once in a while you won't have an answer but that's probability and it is everywhere in HS. Just because owl and bgh were nerfed (correctly nerfed mind you) doesn't make them unplayable. People overreact to nerfs, all you can do is take advantage of it.
I'm a main hunter player and main zoo player. Yes, much of what you're saying is correct, but every deck have a counter. From my perspective, the strongest deck is properly Patron, mainly cuz they have a lot of board clears, but also a bunch of control tolls. Just try out something different if you have a hard time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My brother and I both got legend - and he climbed to 316 with it. Check out our guide!
I gotta say I'm really disappointed in this new meta. Everyone is playing C'thun Druid or Face Shaman on ladder and even in casual. I've been trying to have fun in casual with my Mill Rogue and I've lost 12 games in a row to only face decks. It's either play a netdeck like everyone else or gtfo. I'm glad Blizzard thought this throught. 4 months of that will be torture.
I play a C'thun priest with 2 sw:D an d 1 sh:P 2 hn and 1 ee....when i play vs a shammy or lock i auto hard mulligan for an aoe if i dont have any and keep a sw:D on standby, my low cost minions are usualy capable enough to hold the line long enough to play one. by turn 7 i could play twins and on turn 8 brann + 20 health...that is usualy a concede...then all i have to do is click on well played....it's fun as hell too...
I've seen freeze mage burst me down from full life with nothing but an Emperor tick on his hand (the last game I just played was freeze mage vs dragon priest. I would have lost had he had either one more spell in hand OR Thalnos)
Just had this happen to me. He played pretty much nothing but draw cards and immunity secrets all game, looking back there is literally no way I could beat him. I've always hated playing mages because it is like a stun lock in WoW, they remove any fun for me because I might as well not be there. Either they get their cards and win or they don't and lose, I am not even part of the equation unless I run a deck that has counters useless in pretty much every other situation.
With that said, I am done with what is effectually the world's slowest coin flip simulator. When nothing I do matters in a game, it is a pretty easy choice to stop playing. Luckily, they've stopped having fun Tavern Brawls as well (gotta make people play Standard to buy more packs!) so it will be an easy cord to pull.
Good luck all, since that is pretty much all that will save you.
Every meta will have aggro, combo, midrange and control. That being said, this meta is much slower on average. If you want to understand why aggro is and always will be around. Watch Kripp's video he just put on YouTube. The problem is not the cards, it is the manner in which Blizzard has made the ladder such a grind. This makes people want to play faster decks so they can get through games faster.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Maybe I've just been getting really really bad variance here but let me explain what I've experienced this season in standard:
I've seen some crazy zoo lock decks with an even greater ability to flood the board than before combined with the new 3 mana 1/5 Darkshire Councilman
I've seen face shaman play a 4 mana 7/7 on curve and kill me by turn 6
I've seen freeze mage burst me down from full life with nothing but an Emperor tick on his hand (the last game I just played was freeze mage vs dragon priest. I would have lost had he had either one more spell in hand OR Thalnos)
I've seen divine shield 1 health spammy zoo paladin draw 5 cards on me when I FINALLY have cleared their board which gave them the exact two damage they needed to win
What I don't understand is why the meta has become even more aggro oriented than before (freeze mage being the exception but I don't think most freeze mages would survive until turn 10 against the rest of those decks like they usually do against my slower midrange/control decks). Everybody claimed the meta was going to slow down. I guess the last couple of cards they released really pushed the aggro meta game? I'll go into specific detail for things I don't quite understand.
Against Paladin: I cannot for the life of me figure out why divine favor wasn't touched in the nerfs. That just screams blatant aggro auto include. Blizzard's statement on the matter was that "It's okay for there to be cards in the game that punish being ahead like Mind Control Tech" What? Are you crazy? If aggro paladin has played divine favor and drawn 3-5 cards then it most likely means they have already vomited their entire hand onto the board, dealt you shit tons of face damage, and are possibly still ahead since it's really difficult to clear divine shield creatures. Divine Favor doesn't punish you for hoarding cards, it rewards aggro for playing too fast to keep a hand. I mean it can be used as a comeback mechanic also but it's very different than MCT. MCT your opponent physically has to have already met a certain requirement by flooding their board full of minions. Divine favor is nothing like MCT. Sure your opponent can play around it but even if you're trying to empty your hand as fast as possible it's very likely that paladin can still draw more than 2 cards from it. I don't particularly have an issue with any other card in the aggro decklist as the rest seem okay to me. It can be annoying to get rallying blade-ed but I mean you probably didn't clear their Darkshire whatever it's called
Zoo lock: What even in the world were they thinking printing a card like Darkshire councilman? It has its weaknesses sure like Cabal and whatnot but if played on curve with a forbidden ritual next turn it can be absolutely devastating. Zoo lock already has the capability to flood the board with sticky minions and it feels really really bad when they have something like turn 5 darkshire into double possessed villager (or any two one cost creatures). That stops cabal from working and killing a 5 health creature is no easy task.
Face Shaman: 4 mana 7/7. I think that's really all that needs to be said BUT I'll go into detail before people scream "JUST REMOVE IT MAN!". The 4 mana 7/7 by itself is not overpowered. What is OP is that usually against face shaman they spend the first three turns playing some aggressive minions that take complete board control. Tunnel Trog is an INSANE card. Absolutely insane card. It usually trades up against anything you can play in the early game. The thing about the 4 mana 7/7 is that usually by turn 4 you don't have board control. Control decks will have spent the early turns trying to clear the board as much as possible and will usually find themselves unable to develop many minions. Playing minions can sometimes get you punished anyway if they have something like turn 1 tunnel trog into turn 2 coin feral spirits. Usually will kill your 1 drop outright and sets them up with complete board control. Then when they drop the 4 mana 7/7, you have to waste another turn with removing it and sacrificing even more health and board control. Turn 5 feels bad when you're forced into playing SW:D into some mediocre two drop that will get effectively countered by whatever they have on the board.
The control situation: It feels like Blizzard really shafted control decks this expansion. We had a lot of our key cards like sludge belcher and healbot removed with no cards to really compensate. It seems like they made the control decks less powerful but still gave aggro new tools to play with. A big factor into control's struggle against aggro is the fact that a lot of the powerful aggro cards have high health. Tunnel Trogg and Darkshire councilman are pretty good examples. I think if Blizzard had printed a 1 mana 3/4 "Your opponent is immune" creature, control decks would be okay with the early game. The immune factor also leads into aggro not being able to use it since a control deck could just leave it on the board and be immune until they can get a huge board swing.
Any thoughts?
Priest is pretty much shit tier though lol. Ladder is basically zoo and aggro or midrange shaman atm.
They removed a shit-ton of anti-aggro cards then they gave Zoo/Face Shamans more toys. Silly Blizz should have rotated some cards to Classic set instead of out of Standard.
Renounce Darkness
I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't think this is an aggro meta at all. Most of my games go at least 10 turns unless I'm also playing a tempo deck that aims to win around turn 8. Im seeing more mr shaman than aggro, zoo has been no trouble to me at all, regardless of what deck I'm playing. I see lots of c'thun decks that aren't great decks and they are control. Tempo Warriors also are not aggro. The only hunters I see are mr or are running n'Zoth, certainly not face. Tempo mages are a pretty rare sight and they are an aggressive deck but not a face deck.
I don't understand people saying it's an aggro meta, people just call every meta an aggro meta because they don't track games and because they dislike them, there is a bias and they remember it more. The human brain is notoriously bad at keeping count of things like this.
As far as councilman and flamewreathe, every class has answers. It's not like either of those cards are secrets, every deck runs them, you have to prepare for them starting at mulligan. Every once in a while you won't have an answer but that's probability and it is everywhere in HS. Just because owl and bgh were nerfed (correctly nerfed mind you) doesn't make them unplayable. People overreact to nerfs, all you can do is take advantage of it.
I'm a main hunter player and main zoo player. Yes, much of what you're saying is correct, but every deck have a counter. From my perspective, the strongest deck is properly Patron, mainly cuz they have a lot of board clears, but also a bunch of control tolls. Just try out something different if you have a hard time.
My brother and I both got legend - and he climbed to 316 with it. Check out our guide!
I gotta say I'm really disappointed in this new meta. Everyone is playing C'thun Druid or Face Shaman on ladder and even in casual. I've been trying to have fun in casual with my Mill Rogue and I've lost 12 games in a row to only face decks.
It's either play a netdeck like everyone else or gtfo. I'm glad Blizzard thought this throught. 4 months of that will be torture.
I play a C'thun priest with 2 sw:D an d 1 sh:P 2 hn and 1 ee....when i play vs a shammy or lock i auto hard mulligan for an aoe if i dont have any and keep a sw:D on standby, my low cost minions are usualy capable enough to hold the line long enough to play one. by turn 7 i could play twins and on turn 8 brann + 20 health...that is usualy a concede...then all i have to do is click on well played....it's fun as hell too...
My new hatred for murlocs is at a new high.
Just had this happen to me. He played pretty much nothing but draw cards and immunity secrets all game, looking back there is literally no way I could beat him. I've always hated playing mages because it is like a stun lock in WoW, they remove any fun for me because I might as well not be there. Either they get their cards and win or they don't and lose, I am not even part of the equation unless I run a deck that has counters useless in pretty much every other situation.
With that said, I am done with what is effectually the world's slowest coin flip simulator. When nothing I do matters in a game, it is a pretty easy choice to stop playing. Luckily, they've stopped having fun Tavern Brawls as well (gotta make people play Standard to buy more packs!) so it will be an easy cord to pull.
Good luck all, since that is pretty much all that will save you.
Every meta will have aggro, combo, midrange and control. That being said, this meta is much slower on average. If you want to understand why aggro is and always will be around. Watch Kripp's video he just put on YouTube. The problem is not the cards, it is the manner in which Blizzard has made the ladder such a grind. This makes people want to play faster decks so they can get through games faster.