I don't mind any of those cards. DH is very easily beaten once you control the board. If opponent uses those cheap cards above, almost guaranteed win for any of my highlander decks..
Oh great guys, the dh-problem is solved, this guy got it covered. Just control the board using any of his highlander-decks and we will win every game against dh almost guaranteed. Thank god and I thought dh was broken beyond repair but apparently just no one tried playing highlander decks so far.
I don't mind any of those cards. DH is very easily beaten once you control the board. If opponent uses those cheap cards above, almost guaranteed win for any of my highlander decks..
Is it safe to Disenchant Extra Cards from Ashes of Outland now? At least for 9 old classes I mean...
If you need the dust right now to craft something in particular, yes. Otherwise, wait.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.
Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again. Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
Well thought out point, backed up with real examples. I searched my collection for counter examples, but really, DH card draw are of both much higher quantity and quality than that of other classes.
Regardless of archetype, card draw is useful. DH decks will have the edge on other classes by superior card draw choices alone if they aren't nerfed in the coming expansions. I don't see this happening within this cycle though; this is DH's first cycle, and their time in the spotlight. They've had two nerfs, and I think Blizzard will let them be just a tad too good for the rest of the cycle. I've found my peace will alternating between playing decks good against them, playing a bit of DH every now and then as well, and playing wild.
Of course it's inevitable. I just had a DH take me down to 14hp by turn 3. I then gained about 40 armour the following couple of turns and removing every threat from the board every turn and I was dead on turn 9. It starts off as an aggro deck which never stops with its card draw that never runs out. It's completely broken. He didn't even have priestess (I don't think he runs it since it's too slow/6 damage isn't enough). People who say DH is fine might be running into bad lists or bad players. I have seen awful DH players who achieve nothing with the deck.
Que up any list of DH you like and play against egg warrior or priest and tell me how often you win.
People always counter argue this kind of statement with something along the lines of: “those decks only exist because of the prelevance of DH and something needs to keep them in check.”
What I want to ask these people is to tell me a time in recent history where this exact same scenario hasn’t existed? When is the last time the meta hasn’t been either play the best deck, or decks that beat the best deck?
You realize if DH gets so nerfed that it’s unplayable that something will take its place. And then what does the meta look like? The new best deck and decks that counter it.
People seem to have this odd notion that hearthstone hasn’t been this way most of its lifetime. There are always going to be a best assortment of 30 cards. Then there will be niche decks that beat that assortment at the expense of losing to other things.
Nerfing demon hunter until it no longer makes you cry won’t make you feel any better, because the only thing that will change is what you’re complaining about. It will never stop as long as you have that mentality.
DH has only one real "bad" matchup with 40%, thats Egg Warrior. Besides that, it has at least 50% against every other deck. How is this balanced? Not one class in HS has ever had such a complete package. Draw, Heal, Tempo, Boardclears and so on. It has no Weakness at all and thats just BS. There were a lot of Metakings in the past, but every deck had its weakness, DH simply not.
I don't mind any of those cards. DH is very easily beaten once you control the board. If opponent uses those cheap cards above, almost guaranteed win for any of my highlander decks..
Spoken like a true noob.
More likely spoken like DH player who can't beat highlanders and thinks it's good counter :>.
Of course it's inevitable. I just had a DH take me down to 14hp by turn 3. I then gained about 40 armour the following couple of turns and removing every threat from the board every turn and I was dead on turn 9. It starts off as an aggro deck which never stops with its card draw that never runs out. It's completely broken. He didn't even have priestess (I don't think he runs it since it's too slow/6 damage isn't enough). People who say DH is fine might be running into bad lists or bad players. I have seen awful DH players who achieve nothing with the deck.
Que up any list of DH you like and play against egg warrior or priest and tell me how often you win.
People always counter argue this kind of statement with something along the lines of: “those decks only exist because of the prelevance of DH and something needs to keep them in check.”
What I want to ask these people is to tell me a time in recent history where this exact same scenario hasn’t existed? When is the last time the meta hasn’t been either play the best deck, or decks that beat the best deck?
You realize if DH gets so nerfed that it’s unplayable that something will take its place. And then what does the meta look like? The new best deck and decks that counter it.
People seem to have this odd notion that hearthstone hasn’t been this way most of its lifetime. There are always going to be a best assortment of 30 cards. Then there will be niche decks that beat that assortment at the expense of losing to other things.
Nerfing demon hunter until it no longer makes you cry won’t make you feel any better, because the only thing that will change is what you’re complaining about. It will never stop as long as you have that mentality.
DH has only one real "bad" matchup with 40%, thats Egg Warrior. Besides that, it has at least 50% against every other deck. How is this balanced? Not one class in HS has ever had such a complete package. Draw, Heal, Tempo, Boardclears and so on. It has no Weakness at all and thats just BS. There were a lot of Metakings in the past, but every deck had its weakness, DH simply not.
They can also do some tech vs egg warrior with some running the 4/3 freeze minion, acidic swamp ooze and silence. It's more like 55/45 and the thing is it's so skewed to the warrior going first (being on the coin vs DH is a massive disadvantage) and if the warrior doesn't draw skipper and armorsmith they lose the game. Additionally, now just recently DH are killing the warmaul challengers and because of that you can't cheat out wins with rampage so easily and so the match up is getting less advantageous for egg warrior than it once was as the DH players adjust.
DH is completely broken. It's not fair altruis can push so much face damage while clearing the board. It's dumb that priestess of fury is intentionally out of fireball range or the range of rush minions. The 7 health instead of 6 health is an intentional design choice which is a massive deal. It puts it out of reach too easily. Twin slice should cost 1 mana and second slice 0 mana that way they pay 1 mana for two damage. Metamorphosis should cost at least 6 mana not 5 (6 mana + 2 mana +2 mana means 10 mana for 10 damage). They need to take the card draw off cards which establish tempo as well.
Regardless of archetype, card draw is useful. DH decks will have the edge on other classes by superior card draw choices alone if they aren't nerfed in the coming expansions. I don't see this happening within this cycle though; this is DH's first cycle, and their time in the spotlight. They've had two nerfs, and I think Blizzard will let them be just a tad too good for the rest of the cycle. I've found my peace will alternating between playing decks good against them, playing a bit of DH every now and then as well, and playing wild.
Exactly, card draw is arguably the most powerful advantage you can have in this game. That's why Warlock almost always gets shitty and useless class cards even though he's paying pretty high price for his extra draw ability (due to incredible power creep, HP pool is much more important now than it used to be years ago). DH is different though. He can cycle like crazy (much faster than Warlock even!) but without any downsides or compromises. On top of that, he has the best class cards in the game (almost like adventure boss...) and he breaks most of the rules set by HS over the years that other classes have to struggle with.
Meanwhile Warriors are flying under the radar while drawing half their deck in a turn with combos they can tutor for (speaking of card drawing huh), combos that also happen to generate about 20 armor and with some of the pieces doubling up as possible burst damage combos.
They aren't. This is the exact same RR secret hunter QQ scenario. People cry a lot and bet that the deck will get nerfed, Blizz does nothing and gives us the next expansion.
The last round of DH nerfs was pathetic...with the sac pact nerf (and despite what many think, DH was balanced around this card - blizzard didn't just forget it existed) DH essentially got buffed.
Sac pact is the the reason they were give 2 x 7mana ragnaros+, that can accelerated to come out as early as turn 5 pretty consistantly. It is the reason they were allowed so much card draw. Blizzard literally built the power level of the entire class up, knowing the sac pact would be there to control it to some extent.
Then the timmys started whining they couldn't play their 7mana ragnaros risk free. "Wah wah Waaaaah no one should be able to remove my minion for free and heal for 5"...yeah ok, but look... you are not playing DH in a vaccuum. Sac pact was the balance we needed, if a little brutal, it was necessary...NECESSARY!
I don't mind any of those cards. DH is very easily beaten once you control the board. If opponent uses those cheap cards above, almost guaranteed win for any of my highlander decks..
Spoken like a true noob.
More likely spoken like DH player who can't beat highlanders and thinks it's good counter :>.
Almost all my decks are highlander, even my DH ;) Maybe majority of players are getting owned by DH but not me. That probably means I'm just better than all the whiners..
I don't mind any of those cards. DH is very easily beaten once you control the board. If opponent uses those cheap cards above, almost guaranteed win for any of my highlander decks..
Spoken like a true noob.
More likely spoken like DH player who can't beat highlanders and thinks it's good counter :>.
Almost all my decks are highlander, even my DH ;) Maybe majority of players are getting owned by DH but not me. That probably means I'm just better than all the whiners..
OR you're just a poser who talks shit, without proof of anything
Oh great guys, the dh-problem is solved, this guy got it covered. Just control the board using any of his highlander-decks and we will win every game against dh almost guaranteed. Thank god and I thought dh was broken beyond repair but apparently just no one tried playing highlander decks so far.
Spoken like a true noob.
If you need the dust right now to craft something in particular, yes. Otherwise, wait.
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore.The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again.
Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore.
The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
Well thought out point, backed up with real examples. I searched my collection for counter examples, but really, DH card draw are of both much higher quantity and quality than that of other classes.
Regardless of archetype, card draw is useful. DH decks will have the edge on other classes by superior card draw choices alone if they aren't nerfed in the coming expansions. I don't see this happening within this cycle though; this is DH's first cycle, and their time in the spotlight. They've had two nerfs, and I think Blizzard will let them be just a tad too good for the rest of the cycle. I've found my peace will alternating between playing decks good against them, playing a bit of DH every now and then as well, and playing wild.
DH has only one real "bad" matchup with 40%, thats Egg Warrior. Besides that, it has at least 50% against every other deck. How is this balanced? Not one class in HS has ever had such a complete package. Draw, Heal, Tempo, Boardclears and so on. It has no Weakness at all and thats just BS. There were a lot of Metakings in the past, but every deck had its weakness, DH simply not.
here, read that https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-160/
More likely spoken like DH player who can't beat highlanders and thinks it's good counter :>.
They can also do some tech vs egg warrior with some running the 4/3 freeze minion, acidic swamp ooze and silence. It's more like 55/45 and the thing is it's so skewed to the warrior going first (being on the coin vs DH is a massive disadvantage) and if the warrior doesn't draw skipper and armorsmith they lose the game. Additionally, now just recently DH are killing the warmaul challengers and because of that you can't cheat out wins with rampage so easily and so the match up is getting less advantageous for egg warrior than it once was as the DH players adjust.
DH is completely broken. It's not fair altruis can push so much face damage while clearing the board. It's dumb that priestess of fury is intentionally out of fireball range or the range of rush minions. The 7 health instead of 6 health is an intentional design choice which is a massive deal. It puts it out of reach too easily. Twin slice should cost 1 mana and second slice 0 mana that way they pay 1 mana for two damage. Metamorphosis should cost at least 6 mana not 5 (6 mana + 2 mana +2 mana means 10 mana for 10 damage). They need to take the card draw off cards which establish tempo as well.
Exactly, card draw is arguably the most powerful advantage you can have in this game. That's why Warlock almost always gets shitty and useless class cards even though he's paying pretty high price for his extra draw ability (due to incredible power creep, HP pool is much more important now than it used to be years ago). DH is different though. He can cycle like crazy (much faster than Warlock even!) but without any downsides or compromises. On top of that, he has the best class cards in the game (almost like adventure boss...) and he breaks most of the rules set by HS over the years that other classes have to struggle with.
They can't nerf DH and leave those stupid Rogues. Have to nerf both.
Meanwhile Warriors are flying under the radar while drawing half their deck in a turn with combos they can tutor for (speaking of card drawing huh), combos that also happen to generate about 20 armor and with some of the pieces doubling up as possible burst damage combos.
Im 100% sure now that Blizzard made Demon Hunter in last minute before new expansion without thinking it out, just to hype it out.
So card draw is bad but Rog can keep their hand full with unlimited card generation?
Absolute noob level discussion. Get out on ladder once in a while.
They aren't. This is the exact same RR secret hunter QQ scenario. People cry a lot and bet that the deck will get nerfed, Blizz does nothing and gives us the next expansion.
The last round of DH nerfs was pathetic...with the sac pact nerf (and despite what many think, DH was balanced around this card - blizzard didn't just forget it existed) DH essentially got buffed.
Sac pact is the the reason they were give 2 x 7mana ragnaros+, that can accelerated to come out as early as turn 5 pretty consistantly. It is the reason they were allowed so much card draw. Blizzard literally built the power level of the entire class up, knowing the sac pact would be there to control it to some extent.
Then the timmys started whining they couldn't play their 7mana ragnaros risk free. "Wah wah Waaaaah no one should be able to remove my minion for free and heal for 5"...yeah ok, but look... you are not playing DH in a vaccuum. Sac pact was the balance we needed, if a little brutal, it was necessary...NECESSARY!
*sigh*
Almost all my decks are highlander, even my DH ;) Maybe majority of players are getting owned by DH but not me. That probably means I'm just better than all the whiners..
this thread is about DH, not Rogue. nobody said, that Rogue is fine...
OR you're just a poser who talks shit, without proof of anything
Oh my sweet summer child. You are forgetting something
Why would Blizzard go to the trouble of changing more cards when they can just print new cards to counter it and then charge you for it?
This should be sticky.
As shown in the OP, countering card draw for fast decks is not that easy...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide