Hearthpwn

Battletag: Kwakdizzle#1796
Region: NA
Trade Only?: Yes, you go first

6 mana 8/8 is good tempo, hero powering face two times by turn 6 is not. It somewhat balances out.

Borderlands 2 has a special place in me and my sister’s hearts

Besides the simple fact that it's probably not completely ready yet, this is just the standard practise of pacing for the releasing of new things. Having a new thing to play with every 2 months instead of every 4 months just keeps a great number of players engaged across a greater period of time.

Hearthstone has added new keywords and mechanics almost every expansion. Ignoring the lack of consistency regarding the use of keywords and the failure of some mechanics to ever make an impact, quite some effects have been explored. Being very generous with identifying mechanics, and counting anything that isn't in classic or basic, I can say we've eventually gotten, in no particular order:

Dragon-in hand synergy (early but not a vanilla mechanic), legendary spells, legendary weapons for each class, inspire, echo, magnetic, reborn, awakening from dormant effects, tri-class cards, highlander, quest, side-quest, no minion effects (spell mage, spell hunter), omega cards, "forbidden"  cards (use all your mana),  odd/even decks, outcast, the elemental tribe, hero cards, exordia cards (mechathun, Uther DK), bombs, Galakrond and invoke cards, pure synergy (pally), rush, discover, adapt, overkill, recruit, start-of-game, twin spell, jade, lackey's, spare parts, joust, some very generic set-theme mechanics like projects and breath cards, and of course, a new class.

What are ideas you have, predict will happen, or just want to see? 

Being bold, I think we might eventually see a new tribe (undead?), battlefield modifying cards (splitting the battlefield into two lanes, or battlefield wide auras),  spell taunts, and a graveyard pool that interacts with the res mechanic.

Quote from TyrantrumRex >>

There are 6 lackeys and 44 dragons in standard... So, the odds of generating Draconic Lackey, and then Dragonqueen Alex is 1 in 264. Then it's dead in your hand if you're not running Highlander until you play out duplicates.

Lackeys work in combo decks.

This is like saying Mecha'Thun is unfair, because you can be winning by a landslide, and then lose.

That's the point of combo decks. You need to save the right cards, and be lucky in draw, order and survivability to win.

Should the game just be whoever is winning, should always win? Player who hits the opponent first wins? 

People have such a hard time understanding the whole aggro < control < combo loop, and that you need all 3 to have a viable meta.

If you didn't have control decks, you you would ONLY see Face Hunter

If you didn't have aggro decks, you would ONLY see Tempo Rogue 

If you didn't have combo decks, you would ONLY see Rez Priest.

The meta NEEDS these archetypes, or it simply wouldn't work... Take away Rogue, and the meta will be mirror Ressurect Priest games non-stop.

 

 I don't think lackeys should be nerfed, but I just wanted to correct you: Galakrond rogue is NOT a combo deck. What is the combo? Rogue aims to draw a bunch of zero cost cards and play a high tempo turn to overwhelm the opponents, but that's not a combo. That's like saying Galakrond warlock is a combo deck for needing to invoke into a fully upgraded Galakrond for a high tempo turn. These high tempo turns from Galakrond rogue and warlock make the deck powerful, but they are not combos in the sense that mechathun, raza priest, tog druid, and other combo decks are; combo decks outright win the game through a specific condition, not through a one-turn big board. The only exception may be Nomi decks because that one-turn big board is basically the only thing the deck aims to achieve.

Galakrond rogue is a tempo deck that plays for board, but ends up having way more value than a tempo deck should get away with having. 

You can disagree with me but ask any person on this forum and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Galakrond rogue is a combo deck. Combo beats control in the tactical wheel, but here, tempo beats control, and that's due to the crazy value endless lackeys provide, and that's why people complain about lackeys. 

Quote from mistermath314 >>

I think cards should do what they say they do in the card description. That would mean I also support reverting the Dragonqueen Alexstrasza change. Unless the change is made clear by a change in the card text, I don't support fringe changes and exceptions.

Also, Blizzard has made clear that they start designing sets a year or two in advance. They knew well that Rogue would have the mechanics they did, and still printed Dark Pharaoh Tekahn one year before. The reasoning is simple - discovering Tekahn from Dragon's Hoard is an uncommon occurrence that doesn't really affect balancing.

 Fair enough, you're right. I guess what went through my head is, would it be acceptable to include a card in the discovery pool that hypothetically said "win the game" but only have it occur at a very low rate? Of course, Dark Pharaoh Tekahn does NOT straight up win the game, it just happens to be quite good, but it's interesting to think in extremes when thinking about these things.

Interestingly enough, the text for Dragonqueen Alexstrasza says "add 2 OTHER random dragons" so it could be interpreted to be consistent with the current effect. What's funny about this, though, is that the pre-nerf version had the same wording. 

Quote from NefariousNilbog >>

Rogue, unfortunately, has that high roll potential in abundance.  It's why I can't stand facing them.

As in the case you bring up, it's just one of those games you have to shrug your shoulders and realise there's nothing you can do.  I get it's amazingly frustrating and unfair but that seems to be the Rogue identity these days.

 You and the others are right. Even as I posted this thread, I knew the answer I would get. Getting to decide what is and isn't fair in card generation is a slippery slope and to enjoy Hearthstone, you just have to accept getting highrolled the shit out of every now and then. Plus being the one high-rolling can be a lot of fun.

I do agree that the amount of random card generation rogue has crept into the territory of unfun, but that's the fault of lackies and rogue having the lacky theme for its Galakrond. At least it's only two out of five lackies that discover cards.

I'm wondering what people think of this. Every class has it's highball RNG moments, and this includes rogue getting Dark Pharaoh Tekahn, but at the same time, since the rogue Galakrond and invoke cards generate lackies, it's an inclusion that feels overlooked and too unfair.Dark Pharaoh Tekahn is a card that was designed before there was the possibility of rogue ever getting to discover it, and before rogue more or less over doubled its lacky generation potential with invoking and Galakrond. 

Team 5 has shown that they are willing to adapt certain mechanics for fringe circumstances when they prevented Dragonqueen Alexstrasza from creating copies of itself. My question is, do you think it would be reasonable to do something similar and prevent Dark Pharaoh Tekahn from being in the Dragon's Hoard discover pool, or whether this is setting a bad precedent for messing with discover pools? I'm on the fence and I just wanted to throw the idea out there and see what people think.

Well thought out point, backed up with real examples. I searched my collection for counter examples, but really, DH card draw are of both much higher quantity and quality than that of other classes.

Regardless of archetype, card draw is useful. DH decks will have the edge on other classes by superior card draw choices alone if they aren't nerfed in the coming expansions. I don't see this happening within this cycle though; this is DH's first cycle, and their time in the spotlight. They've had two nerfs, and I think Blizzard will let them be just a tad too good for the rest of the cycle. I've found my peace will alternating between playing decks good against them, playing a bit of DH every now and then as well, and playing wild.

I hit legend in wild using odd DH, from Bronze 10 to legend within 40 games. Deck was insane, a little less insane now but people saying it's not good in wild don't know what they're talking about.

Fun new mini meta. Should have let players use adventure cards they don’t have, there are so many old cards that a lot of players may not have access to  

People seem to hate it, but I for one liked it. Forms a new mini meta and there’s less net decking, so it’s something fresh. The smaller pool of cards makes building a deck a lot faster as well, and I got to whip out my wild adventure cards which aren’t even viable in wild anymore.  I made a pirate galakrond warrior, and dragon decks seem to be popular. 

oh and no DH

Quote from SirJohn13 >>

This is a dangerous paths as it motivates more and more people to switch to playing Priest...

 This is only true is people start doing this en masse. Which will never happen.

Quote from Rayzorhail >>

I finally made peace with myself and with this topic. I apologize for my behaviour and my language.

I now concede every game vs priest. It wont rank me up very fast but oh boy how much more fun I´m having and I´m a much more peaceful person. 

Over and out.

 As someone who didn't really take issue with the thread and just read the first page with amusement, that's a really mature response from you. Someone once told me that the issue with politics and just discourse in general isn't bias or fallacies or all that, but just simple humility and the ability to recognize when one is wrong and accept it.