[SA] LEGEND 83% Tempo Rogue
- Last updated Sep 5, 2020 (Scholomance Academy)
- Edit
- |
Wild
- 18 Minions
- 12 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Tempo Rogue
- Crafting Cost: 9080
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 8/11/2020 (Scholomance Academy)
- Dog
- Pro Player
-
Country:
-
Tournament Decks:
62
-
Ladder Decks:
446
-
Submitted By:
Scholomance LEGEND Tempo Rogue
Hello! I'm GamerPanda and I primarily play Rogue, with Tempo Rogue being my favorite archetype of all time. I can't take credit for this list- it was sent to me by another user and HS friend, Reinan23 who modified the original tempo deck idea from the Pro Player Dog. The only modification I made was the addition of Sap.
*LAST UPDATE* After a bit more testing, I observed that the new list wasn't doing as well as the previous, so I have simply reverted back to the 2x Shifty Sophomore, added the 2nd Sap and put Akama back in. This list is one of the top 5 stealth rogue lists on HSReplay at the time of this update and I've taken to using it for laddering again this month. Interest in the deck has dwindled so I probably won't be updating it further unless something big happens- see below statement:
Want to acknowledge that much of the playtesting and editing for this deck was done by Reinan, a madman with 25k+ Rogue wins. If he creates an alternate list (I believe he is running a small weapon package + scorpids), please look to the comments for his updates as I am becoming too busy to keep updating the guides.
KDK VIDEO (Old List)
CrimsonPanda VIDEO (Old List)
LEGEND & WR PROOF (8/2020): Easiest climb of my HS life! Rogue has more options than ever: Aggro, Weapon, Tempo, Miracle, even Burgle.
The deck crushes Paladin and can be aggressive enough to beat out Druid the majority of the time. The only real issue I had during my climb was against the new Face Hunter (2 losses) and other very aggressive decks. But most of the time it was smooth sailing from D8 to Legend.
WIN CONDITION
Like any tempo deck, your goal is to use cheap removal while you develop your own board in the early to mid game, drawing very efficiently with Greyheart Sage and Secret Passage, and then deliver big damage with burst from hand in the form of Ashtongue Slayer, Eviscerate, and potentially other accrued damage cards (from discover or spellburst). Many of your stealth minions will also be able to get face damage in as you remove your opponents board with spells.
Snowball potential from Edwin VanCleef can win games outright. Smart use of Shadowstep is key, with many great targets.
Core Cards (Non-Removal)
I feel like Shadowstep is the key to success with this deck. There are so many options whether it's to fish for another mage spell (Wand Thief provides great removal and damage options- you can even discover dual class cards like Devolving Missiles), repeat Jandice, make an even larger VanCleef, activate a combo card, etc. Just make sure the use provides important payoff or removal.
If you cast Evocation before Secret Passage, you get to keep all of those spells when the hand is returned to you!
We all know Secret Passage is bonkers. Sometimes your hand just isn't that hot, and there's your 2nd chance or it can be used to fish for removal or finishers. You can typically dump a good number of cards, which also helps thin the deck.
With the number of 0 and 1 cost cards, it's usually very easy to activate combos and play multiple cards for a great VanCleef. You generate enough value in most cases that you're not starved for options and if you are you probably have passage for more gas. Coin-Barov on 4 can be devastating, especially if you can Shadowstep her for more next turn.
Core Removal Cards
Backstab has always been good as a combo activator but also is a great keep in the mulligan against most classes with early minions. Despite previously using Flik Skyshiv, re-adding 2x Brain Freeze allows us to more swiftly deal with the growing aggro threats and freeze large minions for a turn so we can ignore it and go in- sometimes that's enough to win! Sap is the primary way we get through taunts and unwanted deathrattles. Against Paladin and Druid you can send those buffed minions back to the hand with a smile and a wave as you push damage. Once they're low enough you'd be surprised how much burst the deck can pull off. Also keep in mind that Shifty Sophomore can produce Coerce, Kidnapper, and Brain Freeze for removal.
Full Stealth Package
Worgen Infiltrator, Spymistress, and Sneaky Delinquent are your early game stealth minions. Delinquent puts another stealth minion in your hand so you won't need to worry about having a stealth minion for Greyheart Sage most of the time. Shadowstep on Sage is usually a pretty good idea as a 4-mana Sprint. Infiltrator Lilian can easily cause 8 face damage, especially when you control her deathrattle and trade to kill the last of the opponent's minions.
Akama and Shifty Sophomore are healthier stealth minions that can withstand Priest AOE and provide value. Akama Prime can actually be useful but the 6-mana pricetag is hard to commit to. Sophomore can provide some great combo cards (Eviscerate, Cold Blood, Hooked Scimitar, SI:7 Agent, Wand Thief, Perdition's Blade (underrated)) but there are some crap options like Shadow Sculptor, Necrium Apothecary, Headcrack (not the worst).
Together they provide draw, value, face damage, or can trade as needed. This is NOT an aggro deck- trading early so we can dominate in the mid game is part of the game plan in many matchups.
FINISHERS
With essentially 13 stealth minions, you'll usually be able to get Ashtongue Slayer's damage to face, be it to kill the opponent or played on 2 on your Spymistress or Infiltrator for a very aggressive start, which is needed against some of the slower decks. Using Ashtongue for a good trade is not a bad play, use it as necessary. Shadowstep for an essential 2-mana Fireball on top of the stealth damage.
Not much to say about Eviscerate. It's your main finisher, but sometimes you just have to use it for removal and in the end that's OK because your stealth minions can put in work.
GENERAL MULLIGAN
ALWAYS: Greyheart Sage, Spymistress or Worgen Infiltrator, Sneaky Delinquent if you have a 1-drop or feel you'll be safe to pass on 1.
VS. AGGRO (DH, Rogue, Hunter, Shaman, Paladin, Zoolock): Backstab and Brain Freeze. I would also keep Sap against Paladin.
VS. SLOWER (Druid, Mage, Priest, Warrior): Ashtongue Slayer if you have Spymistress or Worgen. Trying to push out damage ASAP. Consider keeping Jandice Barov if you have a good early curve.
ON COIN: Edwin VanCleef
SUBSTITUTIONS
Infiltrator Lilian > Maiev Shadowsong or Questing Adventurer
Jandice Barov > Really hard to replace. Questing Adventurer or Maiev. Faceless Corruptor might be OK.
Akama > Hench-Clan Sneak or Burrowing Scorpid.Coerce for more removal.
VS. CLASS SYNOPSES *Updated in Red*
Paladin
Libram/Pure Paladin
One of our best matchups. I've rarely lost to a Paladin with this deck. Your goal is simple- do not allow them to buff by keeping their board clear at all times through Backstab, Dagger, and trades if necessary. If they can't buff, they have to hero power and waste 2 mana to apply their buff. Then you Sap and/or Flik their giant taunt or minion away as you push damage face. Sap eliminates Libram of Wisdom which is nice and Flik is best against Libram of Hope or Devout Pupil. If you keep up the damage they won't even have time to apply enough buffs to put down Devout Pupil for cheap. Beware of opening your board up to a Consecration wipe as some lists are running 2x.
Not seeing a lot of Paladin recently, which is definitely one of if not our best matchup. Don't need to add any new information, game plan is the same and you'll rarely see Murloc Paladin which your Backstab/Brain Freeze will be essential for. Even though it's aggro it's still quite winnable as long as you are in control before Tip the Scales takes over.
Warrior
Big/Bomb Control Warrior
Most Warriors are playing control style right now and this can be a very hard matchup, one of the worst imo. Since they have both armor gain and removal that often goes through stealth, we can get hit hard. Try to play around Bladestorm by keeping a 1 health stealth minion on board with other minions (not 1 health) that you want to protect. They're then forced to Coerce or Brawl to remove a big threat like Edwin or Questing. If you're able to keep their armor down, they may not be able to Shield Slam, but they could always Shield Block first, which sucks.
When playing minions, watch out for Reaper's Scythe- positioning something like Worgen inbetween your higher health minions can help protect one or force him to facetank damage.
Infiltrator Lilian is an important card in this matchup as Warrior removal usually doesn't involve them putting their own minions on the board until the late game. She can get 4 to face naturally, then if she is brawled that's another 8 you can push if Forsaken Lilian isn't removed.
If you Secret Passage into Bombs, the Bombs do not explode, they just take up a spot in your hand.
Like the Priest matchup, you're sometimes at the mercy of what clears they have. Present a board without over committing- make sure you can refill next turn if they have an answer and when they don't, you have to make your push.
Bomb Control Warriors are still the main threat. No change needed here, I still consider this an unfavorable match-up but not auto-concede.
Warlock
Galakrond/Pain/Zoolock
Really don't see a lot of this personally, even at the guide update. Warlock has a lot of answers that go through stealth, so the control variants are going to be around the same difficulty as Warrior.
Very similar idea in that you can present threats with a backup to draw or present a new board and see if they've got an answer. Accruing face damage spells can really help close things out from 15 or so health as they won't expect it. Their heal mainly comes from Aranasi Broodmother in Quest and Nether Breath and Soul Fragment more commonly, but not much you can do about this except Flik the Broodmother and accumulate as much burst as possible.
In terms of difficulty, Control Warrior and Warlock are on similar levels. The more aggressive pain/zoolocks should be manageable so long as you get your Backstab/Brain Freezes for removal. They'll beat themselves up low enough in the pain version that you'll be able to push lethal through stealth.
Still not seeing a lot of Warlock. No update needed. Control version is still unfavorable like Warrior but not an auto-concede. Should do better against Zoo/Aggro with the new list.
Demon Hunter
Aggro/Tempo and Control DH
Aggro/Tempo DH plague is still around. We generally lose to extremes- very very aggro or very very control and DH only exists in extremes. If you're up against the heavily aggressive version you really need to bank on your removals and early minions or you're in trouble. Brain Freeze used to help quite a bit in this matchup so if you're seeing lots of this, I'd recommend putting Brain Freezes back in. This match will probably be decided by around Turn 5 based on what removals and minions you're able to put forth.
Overall aggro is not the worst matchup, you have a lot of low cost options and draw, so it's probably more of a 50/50. DH isn't as popular as it was in my experience so far, so this shouldn't be seen all that often.
Control DH is absolutely abysmal to go against. They have plenty of stealth-reaching AOE and massive heals from Aldrachi Warblades and attack buffs. They clear your stealth boards and continuously smack you in the face with weapons and heal back up. I included a loss I had in the replays below so you can see it. Like Priest and Warrior, you're at the mercy of their clears and need to strike when they show they can't clear anymore.
Seeing less Tempo and more Control DH but on the whole is still not too common. Akama and Shifty Sophomore can survive the 3 damage AOE to push damage but still a challenge with all their healing and clears. Like other control decks, one inability to clear your board can be the opportunity you need to win.
Hunter
Highlander& Face Hunter
Highlander is probably less of a threat but can still draw nuts on you. Normal gameplay and try to play around Rotnest Drake if you have a big boy on board. Outside of Zephrys, he's got rush minions and he'll have to trade everything into a Edwin or Questing. I think we're pretty favored here if you play the deck on curve/normally.
Face Hunter on the other hand is almost an auto-concede. It's too much damage too quickly. If it turns into a face war we probably won't win unless we can clear efficiently as we push. Discovering Ice Barrier is very helpful but may not be enough. Getting a big Edwin might be one of the only ways to ensure a win here. There is a secret face hunter version going around as well that is a little more mid, which we do better against.
Doing better against Face Hunter with the 2x Brain Freeze back in the deck. Great against buffed Wolpertinger and other minions they barf out. Saving HP in the early game through trade/removal can lead to a mid game victory. I think we're still unfavored, but not as heavily as before.
Priest
Highlander Galakrond
Priest is definitely improved since the last expansion. I find the matchup to be dependent on what clears they draw. Don't put a huge stealth board into Breath of the Infinite or a potential Holy Nova and try to bait inefficient removals.
Akama and Shifty Sophomore can survive most Priest AOE and are thus valuable in this matchup.
Jandice Barov has a decent shot at making 4 attack minions and Lilian can also be a great card in this matchup since they usually don't run silence and will have to take 4-12 damage off of it if they're spending their turns removing and not developing.
Not too concerned about Cabal Acolyte and Cabal Shadow Priest your minions are usually 3 attack and the only big thing worth taking would be an Edwin through Wave of Apathy. If they do, you can Sap or Freeze it if it's a real threat or ignore and go face.
It's definitely one of those 50/50s but feels bad to play against every time. You have the damage but need to test for removals and not over-commit on turns where they could get a full wipe. Of course, if they don't draw the clears, you'll be favored.
Still feeling the same about Priest. No change needed. Not fun but winnable.
Rogue
Aggro Stealth / Face / Mirror
A lot of Rogues are playing hyper aggro. I find this playstyle unappealing but it does well against us as we lose to extremes. We can be aggressive too but have to try to conserve health as much as possible. Another match where Backstab, Brain Freeze and trades are important since we don't want to facetank if we can avoid it. Winnable but we have no way of getting through stealth without discovering something so we're taking that damage if they want to deliver it face. Discovering AOE off Wand Thief or a Frostbolt for the opponent's face can help stall for a turn. Discovering Frost Nova can win the game in this match if they can't push their stealth minions forward for a turn.
If you're seeing a lot of Warrior and Rogue, consider teching Acidic Swamp Ooze in place of a Shifty or Akama.
The mirror is something I have played a little of but will be just dependent on who has the better draw, who gets their Greyheart Sage off and can make the best tempo play. Who gets Jandice on 5? Who has The Coin? Going aggressive can be good since Rogue has no heal.
Face Rogue is still a menace. Discovering mage cards can be essential, as is drawing your removal pieces to conserve health. Going too long will result in a loss as almost all of their cards are damage dealers. Try to remove without trading if possible so you can twist their arm into spending resources to remove/trade rather than go face, but it's hard for them to go against their smorc instinct.
Shaman
Totem & Spell Damage Shaman
Pretty rare to see. You should have plenty of tools for removing their totems. Trade into them if necessary. As in the Paladin matchup, give them no totems to work with and you will be able to naturally turn the tide. We should be very favored here.
Spell Damage can be tough but still favored. They can't hit your stealth minions unless they run Lightning Storm (but now they run Molten Blast in it's slot). Sap their Squallhunter and use your trades and removals on the smaller pieces, then push for face damage before they can draw and cast all their damage spells.
Beware of Ras Frostwhisper- if you can't answer it, it will auto-kill a lot of your stealth minions and put you in a bind.
What is Shaman? I haven't seen a Shaman or Warlock in a while. No change needed- we should be favored against any type, with control variants being a little trickier.
Mage
Mozaki/Spell Damage & Highlander
Generally feel that we are favored vs. both Mage decks, especially Highlander since it starts off fairly slow and you can get pretty good damage in, force pings as you continue to build. Spell Damage mage can play a lot of minions out for pretty cheap. Use your backstabs on Sorcerer's Apprentice trade into the Lab Partner. Keeping their spell damage down will slow them. If they manage to Mozaki, Sap it and it loses all it's power. They're usually dead from there but can put up a good fight. Super RNG feels bad though.
Seeing same mage decks but usually come out on top. No changes. Should do better against spell damage with the brain freezes back in.
Druid
Guardians & Maly Druid
These are really the primary Druid deck I've encountered, though I've seen some Token decks. I think we're more favored after the Kael'thas nerf but an early Animals or crazy ramp can still make life hard. Early on we want to be as aggro as possible so they're unable to play the ramp cards they want. Seeing them spend 3 on a Bogbeam or hero power a 1-drop are good signs. Preventing them from ramping or seeing them ramp when you have a threatening board is a big part of success. I've seen some insane Turn 2-3 Guardian Animals and it can be tough to come back after that.
Sap I generally try to use for a giant Ironbark'ed Kael'thas Sunstrider or other large minion but can be used on a Teacher's Pet if it helps push good damage. Build up early, push through taunts without trading if possible, and try to close out as soon as possible. If it runs too long or they ramp too quickly, they're going to overpower you with their Animals and then it might be gg. You're not down and out after 1 Guardian Animals, keep fighting!
As I added above, more favored, seeing less Druid since the nerf. Still hard in certain situations but winnable, similar 50/50 type feeling that I have about Priest, maybe slightly favored now.
REPLAYS: (More to come)
A few from the old list:
Tempo Rogue Mirror (slightly different version)
Control DH (Loss)
Tempo Rogue is back, it's powerful, and here to stay for SA! Any comments or questions please let me know and I will add replays and more updates at +10! vs. class guides at +30 updated replays and guides at +50 not sure what else I can offer but further updates to replays and guides at +80. More updates and replays at +100! Wow! Thanks for your support :)
Great!! Well played! (or should I say gut gespielt :) )
Nice deck. However, Wand Thief feels like a suboptimal choice than Cold Blood for a deck running Secret Passage Under the same logic EVIL Miscreant feels weaker than Hooked Scimitar
The absent sinergy of Secret Passage with Cold Blood and Hooked Scimitar makes this deck IMO inferior to the more aggressive version of the Stealth-Passage Rogue.
It's not aggro rogue. Those cards are for face Rogue (cold blood, scimitar). Although it has a low sample size since the list was just changed, it's currently the best performing stealth rogue list on HSReplay over the stealth aggro variants.
It's a different deck, you use those cards because of Shadowstep, it's a tempo deck not aggro although it can kill people as fast as an aggro deck.
I know you guys want to defend "your" version of the deck. But seriously. When you play Secret Passage you want to draw anything that could help you WIN the game. Tipically Sap and something to help you with lethal: Eviscerate, Cold Blood, and Hooked Scimitar. There are some versions of the deck even running Sinister Strike, which is too aggro for my taste because doens't even have an effect on the board.
All my argument here is that Cold Blood, and Hooked Scimitar are better cards to be drawn by Secret Passage.
Think about this: if you're going to draw Sap from Secret Passage, it is a waste to draw Wand Thief or EVIL Miscreant instead of Cold Blood, and Hooked Scimitar. Why would you want those cards if you are clearing the way for just ONE turn?
In other words, Sap has a much better sinergy with Cold Blood, and Hooked Scimitar than with Wand Thief or EVIL Miscreant.
If a face rogue does not win on turn 5, you basically run out of gas. This deck is not meant to be played like that. If you play a tempo rogue deck same way as a hyper aggro face rogue, of course its gonna be inferior.
Go ahead and find a similar Replay beating a control class after turn 10 as face rogue, with the opponent hitting all the key removals, this rogue deck is about endless pressure from resource generation. It might not be the best rogue deck out there but certainly the most engaging/fun deck I've ever played, and is incredibly strong in all stages of the game.
I run both, the weapon and wand thief, i love to get the weapon when using secret passage and i need to clear something or deal 4 dmg to finish, but that's not the only use case of Secret Passage, and sometimes wand thief is so good too, just depends on the situation... she could give a spell to finish their face or a spell to control the board, a good secret, etc.. she is more flexible i think. I've seen her in some aggro versions too
I do secret passage not only to find lethal, but also to play something or to give an answer I don't have in situations in which I don't have anything good to do with my hand. About EVIL Miscreant, I feel like it's good against aggro decks, honestly thought about changing it, but I guess I just had so much success with my version (this one with less legendaries cause i dont have them (: ) to modify it
I don't know why i don't see people using Pen Flinger tho, it's so much dmg, great to keep the board or finish ((:
I mean if Cold Blood works for you, just go for it
Pen flinger is great, but I dont think theres a spot for it in the deck, like what are you gonna cut? I was thinking about replacing ashtongue with cold blood, it might be more consistent, but if you are careful with how you play, there are enough stealth minions in the deck to justify ashtongue, and when he activates for a value trade, its just insane and you can shadowstep for the kill as well.
Since i don't have some legendaries (lillian, jandice, akama) i have more room to experiment with, but i agree it's very hard to replace some cards.. It will very hard for me to replace pen flinger once i craft jandice :( i really fell in love with him lol
Yes, ashtongue + shadowstep is just so good to skip, in some cases you might even have x2 stealth minions and need to kill some big minions.. plus it has a body
Hmm... I must be bad because at gold 5 I can't seem to win that many games. I'm coming from Secret Galakrond rogue so perhaps its hard to adjust to the tempo play style?
Could be. Share a replay?
GamerPanda, what a game against the Cyclone mage in the replays they can be really tuff, well done! I only have one observation to make at very end this turn when u apexis his face to set up lethal i would problably Shadowstep and replay Akama Prime to get him full health again cus at this point he was pretty much your win condition right, if the mage somehow kill Akama Prime (or maybe freeze but in this case there is nothing u could do) you problably would loss this game. But yeah Akama Prime is not useless, gigatrash , "Genn Greymane" like most people think after all ;)
The Aggro Rogue replay it's an interesting one to talk about aswell, you risky alot with the opening hand by kept on the play Jandice Barov and Greyheart Sage (without any stealth minion), i dont know if i would do that ever but you luckily top deck a 1 cost stealth minion on turn 1 and had some really good draws from Greyheart Sage so the full keep totally paid off in the end, the hyper aggro Rogue is a very rough matchup because obviously they can race you much faster specially if they go first and have a perfect curve.
lol @ "gigatrash" Yeah he was actually critical that game. Yeah I should've done that, I was probably just greeding the step. In the 2nd I think I feel like when my opponent has Sage and Jandice I feel like I'm so behind. I banked on drawing a stealth minion since there are so many and got lucky :)
Having trouble with mages and priests! how about running ironbeak owl in this list? need to silence their taunts and spell damage
I really don't think Owl is a good choice. With 2 Saps, Flik, and trading with stealth minions we shouldn't need more. If you need more removal try going back to the list with 2 Brain Freeze and drop Akama and Sophomore.
What's a good replacement for Flik with this new list? as it already has 2x sap in it. Brain freeze, acidic swamp ooze, harrison jones or something else?
I would try Maiev- still gets you some more removal with a body, even though it's temporary. If you don't like Maiev and are seeing a lot of weapons, I'd go with Ooze over Jones. If you're seeing more aggro, go with Brain Freeze.
Really nice deck! Very consistent. Currently 27-9. 5-0 paladin and 6-0 priest. Only having diffuclties with Guardian druid and Highlander Mage.
Looking forward to changes and more testing. Keep up the nice work !
wow 6-0 against Priest! Guardian Druid is absolutely a tough one- did you play with the 2x Sap/Shifty/Akama list? Did the 2nd Sap help you at all? HL Mage can be tough once you get to the late game. Just have to try for aggression and like other matchups you'll need to hope they can't clear and be ready to reload :/
ARe you using the new list and are you subbing questing adventurer in for anything? I don't have flik