Hearthpwn

I'm not sure Kael'thas Sunstrider still deserves tier 1 right now. It definitely did when both Inner Demon combo DH was a thing and Spell Druids were running rampant, but the former is dead-by-nerfs and the latter is seeing less and less play. The nerf was significant too. Definitely still a strong card with great potential, but right now isn't really shining.

I'm seeing less and less Maiev Shadowsongs too. It's starting to feel like a card you put in an highlander deck just because you have a free spot, or if you for some reason want a pseudo silence with some potential upsides (tempo or stalling plays), but that's it. Strong sure, but it seems like the definition of a flexible tech card to me.

One card that I would move up instead is Dragonbane. Messing around with many Hunter decks, I really have an hard time justifying NOT autoincluding it everywhere. It fits in anything from Aggro to Dragon to Highlander to any midrange deathrattle/beast/whatever. Super strong card that can often win games even with a single activation and autowins if not responded, I don't see how you get more tier 1 than that. Definitely a must-craft if you want to play Hunter.

I'm just gonna answer 1, cause  2- I don't play Wild 3- i don't play and I hate Priest so my opinion would be a bit biased lol and 4- I haven't decided yet if I like this expansion or not. I can just say that I like A LOT some of the new cards and builds for what's shaping up to be my new favorite class, Hunter. Lots of new and fun toys to play with, even if some of those decks/archetype aren't exactly top tier right now (like Combo Boar or midrange-ish deathrattle builds). 

so 1- DH and Rogue. DH is fine right now. It's just a really, really strong aggro deck but that's pretty much it. The usual counters to aggro applies.

Rogue however is not, mostly because they do too many things and too well at once. ie their boards can go both wide or tall; it's not like you can tech AOE or removal to deal with something specific, because one game they'll have a super wide and sticky lackey board that makes you feel you're playing against a Shaman; the next they could drop back to back a gigantic Edwin followed by a Winged Guardian generated by Pharaoh Cat (happened to me yesterday). Every game is different. Today I've had one that I basically lost against a generated High Priest Amet that I couldn't deal with right away.

They have early game tempo secret plays that makes you feel you're playing against Hunter (an early Ambush + Blackjack Stunner can be devastating especially to other tempo-based classes), but it's not like secrets are a win condition for them, it's just a strong addition to an already strong deck: even if there were strong anti-secret tech in the meta, they wouldn't be suuuper relevant imho - it's not like, for example, the old times with Secret Pala, when anti-secret tech would completely destroy their main gameplan, like hitting a Flare on a Mysterious Challenger turn. Rogue doesn't care that much (not just theorizing here, I'm playing Hunter a lot and I'm putting a Flare in most of my builds, I do get good value too sometimes, but it's not like it's incredibly strong).

They can fend off aggro (which were historically a weakness for Rogues), they can go the distance against slower decks, they can find and/or build annoying taunts to stop combos. It's a bit too much. With that said... I'd rather Rogue being the top dog than some other classes I hate.

Personal thought and not strictly related to this expansion but: my biggest issue with the game right now is not balance, or a class being too strong, or oppressive cards in particular... it's still the amount of RNG generation and discoveries. This is preventing me to play any kind of control, which I would enjoy. I can deal with losing a 5-minutes game to a turn 6 BS Puzzlebox, but I straight up refuse to play a 30-minutes one just to lose to a perfect discovery at the perfect time. Yesterday I spectated a friend playing Galakrond Priest vs some kind of Control Warrior running (among other things) double Brawl, Bulwark of Azzinoth (upgraded nonetheless), and Elysiana. Literally 45-minutes game decided by the Galakrond Hero power generating effect when things looked lost. And that's just because the Priest had a lucky lethal before Elysiana was relevant (Murozond copying a good Warrior turn), otherwise it was probably another 20+ minutes and who knows what would have happened.

Quote from IceD34ler >>

 

And dude, seriously, where did I say that Charge has to go entirely? Quote me on that, because I can't find it. And no one will touch your little piggy friends, at least not in the near future I guess...

Yeah because entering the thread lamenting that "again the charge mechanic is being abused" and wishing for Huffer, of all things, to be nerfed to rush definitely doesn't imply that charge has to go in your view... Dude c'mon.

Buffing a charge minion isn't an issue either. Taunts still stops them from going face. Even old school Miracle Rogue, one of the best combo decks in the game's history, could be stopped by a couple of taunts played at the right time.

Unless you also want to imply that combo decks shouldn't exist (and by "Combo decks" I mean the ones pulling some sort of OTK or big burst combo, not using your super broad definitions here), the real issue is how hard is a specific combo to pull off, in particular how many cards it needs, how many turns it has to be played over and how good is the class at drawing their pieces. This deck is far from being problematic... yet.

Quote from IceD34ler >>

Seriously, I don't argue with someone who 1) can't read what I wrote and 2) needs to become rude towards a complete stranger to strengthen their argument because anonymity is a great thing. Wow.

Basic cards are in the Standard rotation for Newcomers, so they can still rank up and learn the basic game mechanics. Here you have the reason. And yes, they want to sell new packs, what a surprise. And there is even an Interview where Blizzard is naming specifically Stonetusk Boar a problematic card in every expansion they released so far, let me search for the link...

So you say that I can't read and I'm the one being rude, ok sure I guess.

Where have I been rude? Because I'm calling your arguments bizarre when they're actually, well, frankly bizarre? Like calling Dinotamer a combo card, or insisting that Huffer should be nerfed to rush for absolutely no reason other than "let's nerf a basic card because it's basic and should be weaker"? Or trying to say Blizzard agrees with your opinions on the charge mechanic, while some cards they recently printed are clear evidence of the contrary? What are you trying to say here, that charge is fine as long as it's on a new card from the latest expansions? Your arguments don't make sense to me.

If you want to make the argument that Stonetusk Boar has some abusable combo potential like in this deck FINE, let's talk about it in specifics (and spoiler: I'll argue that a 5+ cards combo in a class with limited drawing capabilities and that can be stopped by timely taunts is completely fine), but those blanket statements about the charge mechanic and Huffer and UTH c'mon, they're frankly ridiculous.

Quote from IceD34ler >>

My point is, you are comparing a Basic/Classic card Huffer (which still sees a lot of play and is over 5 years old) with Diving Gryphon, of course it needs to be worse. Unleash the Hounds is another card that is very old and still sees play in a lot of decks to finish off the opponent and I think this is limiting design space for new cards, the power level is just too high still. But that's just my opinion, you can have yours, all good.

And whats with that control player bias? I play all three archetypes and all 10 classes so can we please let this nonsense be and remain on the topic? Thanks. Also I never said Charge has to go entirely, only on those specific control cards.

Kayn Sunfury only has 3 Attack for a reason. And Dinotamer Brann is a Combo card as well, huge value, used in Big Beast Hunter. Blizzard is testing decks every expansion and I only say "this card is a combo or aggro or control card" since these cards were prbly used in that archetype when playtesting. Of course that doesn't mean you can't use it in a different archetype, but if you understand the Aggro beats Combo beats Control design behind the game you can definitely group cards into archetypes they are best used in. Espcecially if you analyze the game thoroughly and know why cards have a specific mana cost to curve well.

I really don't buy that whole "basic cards should be weaker" argument, why do they need to? Why would you nerf old cards that are barely keeping up with the current power level? So that Blizzard can sell more packs? And do you seriously believe Stonetusk Boar in itself is a problematic card? Scavenger and Scrap Shot won't be around forever.

And besides yes, c'mon, there has to be some consistency in card values. Even 5 years later a card like Diving Gryphon shouldn't be twice as good as a staple classic card of the same cost. What would be the point of keeping basic cards in the rotation then. Not to mention the nerf to Huffer being rush would also be particularly dumb because of the inherent RNG of Animal Companion.

And you absolutely did imply that charge had to go entirely, let's not turn the tables here. Also how is Dinotamer a combo card? You don't combo it with anything right now. It's played often on curve as a finisher or to pressure the opponent and that's it. And Highlander Hunter is basically a straightforward midrange deck. Veranus is an example of a combo card (needs another card to take advantage of his powerful effect), not Dinotamer.

Quote from mistermath314 >>

It's a meme deck. I've been toying around with a version that runs a lot more card draw, since the main problem with the deck is that it lacks consistency. However, even at 20000 legend, I can't manage to maintain a 1:1 win/loss ratio. Maybe it's just me, but I seem to have far more success with other decks than this one.

I'm also running more card draw (2x Novice Engineers to go along with the Loot Hoarders) and I'm also playing around 20/30k legend (EU), and the deck is performing very well for me, surprisingly so in fact (hence this thread).

Sure if you have all key pieces in the second half of the deck or you drew them in a horrible order, the deck bricks - it's normal. But it doesn't seem that inconsistent to me. Tracking finding the missing pieces is incredibly good for a combo deck. In fact, I'd say I have more issues with Hunting Party costing too much than with consistency finding the combo pieces. I've had a lot of games where I actually drew all my stuff and had enough damage in hand, but didn't have enough mana to make the play in a single turn, had to delay one turn, and lost because of that (either by allowing them to play a big taunt or them finding lethal). Another related small (but not so small) issue is that the combo doesn't work "on curve", you want to play Scrap Shot BEFORE Ramkaehn Wildtamer, which sometimes lead to weird early turns.

Give it another chance, the deck has a bit of a learning curve. It's not rocket science, but I was definitely losing a lot more in the beginning because of misplays.

Quote from IceD34ler >>

Quote from RushingMonkey >>

Quote from IceD34ler >>

huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.

Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.

Also combo decks need to exist.

Unleash the Hounds and Animal Companion never were combo cards in the first place. They are control cards and the Charge mechanic (which was mostly designed to have immediate board impact vs. aggro, in most cases. There are exceptions, e.g.Bluegill Warrior) is still a problem which they are slowly getting rid of (hence they HoFed Leeroy Jenkins). Also, using Basic cards (which are now over 5 years old) still in todays decks should ring an alarm bell.

Combo cards are cards that ramp for multiple huge minions midgame (to exhaust controls hard removals), draw cards or can deal direct damage to the opponents hero (e.g. Weapons, Big Spells like Pyroblast, Bombs, anything that can bypass Taunts and is not a minion, since Control loves deleting the board over and over - but if there is no board, control can't play its cards)

The combo and charge arguments were separate, of course I never meant to say UTH and Huffer were combo cards (although UTH actually was... back in the days when it costed 2 along with Buzzard / Timberwolf / Hyena).

Charge isn't a problem when it's on minions with stats that make sense for the cost. Huffer isn't a problem, so isn't UTH in its current iteration. Have you seen anyone recently calling for nerfs on Huffer and UTH? Who would play a 3-mana 4/2 rush, summoned by a spell nonetheless, so it can't even receive buffs from Scavenger and Scrap Shot? Compare to Diving Gryphon and tell me a rush-only Huffer wouldn't be garbage...

And btw Blizzard clearly disagrees with you seeing as they've just printed cards like Kayn Sunfury and less recently Dinotamer Brann. Again, it's Leeroy that was a problem, not the charge mechanic in general. The charge mechanic has already a counter to prevent it to be abused to go face, and it's called taunts. Which are in fact the #1 enemies of this deck. How is it fine that taunt exists as a mechanic (and get strongest every time with ridiculously good minions like Karthut, Bone Wraith or Convincing Infiltrator, just to name a few) but charge has to go? I smell control-player bias here...

Also your idea that combo cards are specifically only those who ramp multiple huge minions is pretty bizarre. That's certainly the case for Druid, or for some DH discounted plays, but that's not the definition of a combo card in general.

Quote from IceD34ler >>

huh, and again the Charge mechanic is abused :D. This game...why they never changed Huffer, Stonetusk Boar and Unleash the Hounds to have Rush instead of Charge...I'll never understand it.

Why would they? Charge is fine in general. What wasn't fine was everybody and their mothers running Leeroy possibly with a mini combo for extra damage in basically every deck as a finisher. All those cards you mentioned would be trash if they were rush.

Also combo decks need to exist.

Quote from Marega >>

Rogue has a slow start huh? Laughs in edwin 8/8 turn 4. 

To be fair I did mention that lol. Also I'm pretty sure any Hunter has problems dealing with an early big Edwin regardless of the archetype, since he usually come along a bunch of lackeys so Deadly Shot / Rotnest can't reliably remove him.

But Edwin aside, trust me, it's not that uncommon for Rogue to hero power / pass even on turns 4 or 5 when all you're playing is Novice Engineers, Loot Hoarders and Scrap Shots to the face, cause they probably have some tempo play or mini combo that only makes sense to do with an opposite minion on board (ie Backstab + Evil Miscreant). That's what I meant by slow.

Quote from W0LF1199 >>

Is your list the same as the hsreplay list? looks kind of interesting.  

I'm not sure about the exact hsreplay list, but I think everybody started from this one:

https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/boar-hunter-akatsu-ashes-of-outland/

And made some changes. For example the other poster is mentioning Eaglehorn Bow, which I never seen played (and I myself don't run, maybe I should lol). Personally I almost immediately removed the 2 Infectious Sporelings, they just weren't working for me, their point was acting as a pseudo-silence for taunts (cause you can't play Owl, being a beast it messes with Scavenger's Ingenuity draw), but there's no way your opponent will let you hit what you want with those spores. I also removed the 2 Imprisoned Felmaws cause I didn't understand what was the point of their inclusion and I just never got value from them. Maybe I'm missing something here.

I added more card draw with 2x Novice Engineers to go along with the Loot Hoarders, Maiev (again as a pseudo silence) and 1 Ruststeed Raider (I felt like I needed a rush minion for surviving midgame but almost all the good rush ones are beasts!). Currently still experimenting. 

Quote from Windigol >>

Drawing 3 cards should cost at least 3 mana

Uhm what? In itself, drawing 3 cards is about fairly costed at 5. Drawing a card is typically worth 1.5 mana (see Arcane Intellect, or cards like Novice Engineer which is 0.5 worth of a body with a cycle attached). The problem is that "fair" doesn't cut it anymore. 5-mana draw 3 would maybe see play even in other classes, but 6-mana draw 3 definitely wouldn't, unless you have a way to significantly discount spells. Too slow and gigantic tempo loss. As proof, not only Druids are not running Nourish, despite drawing cards and ramping being their main plan even nowadays, but it has also never been an autoinclude (and it used to cost 5!).

You can't possibly be serious with your suggestion of the discounts only working on spells. C'mon. It already has a significant condition for the discount to activate (Outcast). Making it only work IF outcasted and IF you happen to draw spells is absolutely ridiculous for a 6-mana card. You might as well delete the card from the game, or wait for a Spell-only DH archetype to emerge... lol

I'm also not sure what's this obsession is with Skull drawing another Skull. Not only it doesn't happen that often (about as often as Wondrous Wand drawing a 0-cost Galakrond I'd say...), but most importantly, it's not even that desirable in Tempo DH. What you want to "hit" with Skull are small costed minions and spells, both to refill the board (any 3 or less cost minion and especially Satyr Overseer in combination with Twin Slice) and/or draw some more (Spectral Sight, Crimson Sigil Runner), all while fueling Altruis. If you actually played the deck, you'd realize you don't want to draw Skull into Skull about 90% of the times.

So I have been tinkering with the deck since the first lists came out, thinking at first it was a fun meme deck but... it's performing. No seriously, I don't keep track of my games but I feel I'm doing better with it than with Highlander Hunter! And the meta right now seems about perfect for it:

- Druids seem dead (apparently thank to Rogues and their secret package), and in my experience it was by far the worst matchup for Boar Hunt, in both its Spell and Big archetypes, almost instaconcede in fact. No way for the Boar Hunt to deal with big untargettable taunts or wide boards with minions having more than 2 HPs. Or both (Exotic Mountseller + Ironbark bs).

- Coincidentally, Rogues are now everywhere and the matchup actually feels favored! Their early game is kinda slow and responsive and allows you to draw and build your combo. They're thriving on tempo swings, but they're not getting them against Boar Hunt. Plus the only taunt they run (Shield of Galakrond) is more than manageable. About the only time I lose badly against them is if they build a big Edwin or generate some lucky reborn taunt at the right time from Pharaoh Cat.

- I don't know if it's out of boredom or these new variants are performing better against the meta, but Priests are apparently dropping their Res package... which is great news for Combo Hunter. Any taunt-reborn and of course Convincing Infiltrator + Grave Rune were the bane of Combo Hunt. These new Priest decks are a breeze to deal with in comparison, you don't care if they have 60 heals in hand cause you're fully OTKing them. In fact I'd say it's another favorable matchup (as it should be with a combo deck countering a control deck). Speaking of controls, the matchup seems very favoured against Galalock too - bonus points for them Life Tapping into half-combos range sooner than they should, especially cause they often have no idea what the hell are you doing lol

- Matchup against DH is unfavorable of course, as any aggro should be against a combo deck, BUT. Tempo DH is actually about the best aggro matchup we could hope for. None of their early game minions has more then 2 HPs, meaning they're in Explosive Trap and Dwarven Sharpshooter + hero power range. UTH can still help on their boards. Aggro / Zoo-ish decks that build wider boards with >2 HPs minions, such as Totem Shaman or Murloc Pala, would be lot harder to deal with, but they're not nearly as popular.

Anyone else having similar experiences with this Hunter archetype?

Quote from sxavalentine >>

Ok, wow, I'm glad the discussion is engaging so many people.
A few more things i'd like to point:

1) Sorry, i didn't mean that the nerfs didn't accomplish anything. The first ones yes, they were on the dot (maybe still too light the one to Skull of Gul'dan). The second round? Not so much. Altruis costing 1 mana more is still ridicolously good, Glaivebound Adept I insist not counting it as a nerf, Battlefiend starting at 1 atk, yes, it helps, but honestly, it was insane from the start: 1 mana 2/2 with no downside but actually a huge snowballing upside? WTF? Who came up with that? And who said 'Yeah, seems legit, let's do it' ? Still the best 1 drop in the game.

2) I honestly don't understand all this hate vs Rogue, to the point that seems that this class is the real problem for many of you. I played a lot both AS and VS Rogue. Yes, it's very strong. But somehow fair. I may win or lose, but I don't recall a game where I felt that the class was unfair and overtuned. It let's you play, has counters. Has highrolls, but even a Galakrond into Kronx for 0 mana comes only at turn 7 and onwards. And almost certainly by turn 7 you are not at 5 hp, making suboptimal plays to not die next turn when you face rogue.

3) I'm genuinely shocked learning that many of you think DH is fine. I'd appreciate if those who defend it (and play it) would say it. Just a quick recap on the most broken cards:
- Priestess of Fury :
a better Ragnaros: runnable in 2x, playable as early as turn 5, that can attack, that split the damage with face and board (no risk of 6 damage  on a Silver Hand Recruit). Ragnaros: a legendary that was Hall of Famed because it felt too much like the go-to for the 8 mana spot for too many classes.
- Twin Slice: I swear, i would be fine with Glaivebound Adept if it wasn't for this card. Most of the time it would be just like a Fire Elemental that deals one more damage but has 1 less health... and maybe to trigger its effect my opponent even had to atk face into one of my taunts. But of course this card has plenty other chances to shine: it's a key card for a great Altruis turn. That's where it shines the most. Worst case scenario? 0 mana deal 2 damage. Wow.
-Metamorphosis : you lost the board and are now in topdeck mode? Here is the solution to all your problems: a Pyroblast splitted in 2 turns for a total cost of 7 mana, TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID (if someone says Grizzled Wizard please, let me first see you playing it, then we'll talk). Chances are that you won't need the second use. In fact, even if you didn't lethal after the first one, it will be your opponent to concede after he won't draw the the heal he was hoping for. So much energy saved!
- Warglaives of Azzinoth :let's just compare it to Doomhammer. Or a more recent one, Sul'thraze. Seriously, do I need to add anything?
- Skull of Gul'dan: there is no need to explain.
- Altruis the Outcast: same as above

4) The 'it's cheap' argument is bullshit. Whether you are new or a returning player, you get a free deck, including one with so many great neutral legendaries like Highlander mage. So is the argument 'It's new, people are experimenting the new class'. BULLSHIT. People play it because it's OP, games are short and has a crazy high winrate. I don't know how many people usually reach legend each month, but in my friend list I saw up to legend 52k (EU). I think it says all,

5) Here is a link to a replay of mine vs DH. It's only 7 turns long. https://hsreplay.net/replay/Cq5JEARHJh8pdvwbuv2cmM 
Please, please enlighten me on how to get better at the game. Show me the billions of other possible plays I could and should have done instead. Most of all, keep telling me that the class doesn't need further adjustments and it's fine as it is.
(I'M NOT saying I'm the best player and i have no space to improve. NO. I'm saying that most of the time there isn't much you can do).

That's it, i'm really done explaining my point of view.

Your point of view is completely biased, if I go card for card I could make a similar list of completely bonkers cards for at least 4 other classes. Starting from Shadowjeweler Hanar getting ridiculous turns 7/8 swinging combos not dissimilar in power level from Altruis', Blackjack Stunner being a 1 mana targettable Freezing Trap on a stick, a card that in Hunter can win games on its own, somehow they thought making that effect targettable in Rogue was fine... I could go on for days.

The comparisons between Priestess and Ragnaros are honestly getting stale. Priestess does jack shit on a board where Ragnaros would shine (1-2 BIG minions on the opponent's side) and viceversa, the cards are similar in concept but completely different in application. One functions on a wide small board and the other on a tall one. Moreover, 7+ drops are supposed to be powerful. I'm not paying 7 mana for something that doesn't have an immediate effect and a lasting threatening one. The only issue with Priestess is DH ability to cheat her out on turn 5, which I agree it's too powerful. But if that's unacceptable to you, then I'm wondering what you think of Druids constantly playing their 7 mana turn against your turn 3, while casually dropping down ridiculous shit like Evasive Drakonid summoning Winged Guardian from the deck via Strength in Numbers.  Or is that fine since it kills you over 2 turns with almost no possible counterplay instead of 1?

So I'm not going to counter your other arguments card for card because it's pointless. As for Rogue being hated oh I don't know, it may have something to do with the lackey RNG feeling awful when you're on the receiving end of a perfect generated lackey ruining your plans (while the other 7 would have been fine), or maybe because they play 15 cards per turn without somehow ever running out, or maybe the 0-cost cards BS - oh, these last two points remind you of some other class perhaps? Also the cheap dust argument is absolutely valid too, not everyone had access to the returning player freebies, and besides the Mage deck only have Alex Zephrys and Reno... Alex and Zephrys are good for other highlanders sure, too bad those same decks require at other 6 or more legendaries on top of those two to function in their best iteration (please look at any Highlander Mage or Hunter list and tell me anyone could afford it).

Quote from sxavalentine >>

Quote from RushingMonkey >>

OP using Rogue you have about zero rights to whine 

Quote from Ooze1800 >>

Oh buhu im so sorry mr galakrond rogue, you have a matchup that is about 50% winrate. Thats not fair, gala rogue should have 70% winrate against every class ofcourse.

Quote from Teuuun >>

 

I'm a rogue player: GTFO

Sigh, do you guys even read -.-'' ?
Yes, I ALSO played Rogue this season (Highlander Rogue, not full Galakrond, which seems to be the most popular).  20-23 vs DH,32% of my encounters.
Before that I did the climb D5 - Legend with Highlander Priest. (22-23 vs DH, 34% of my encounters).
I'm currently using Kibler's Quest Warrior (13-15 vs DH, 39% of my encounters ).

Quite different playstyles.

So, the point you guys are missing (big time) IS NOT "buhu, Rogue is unfavored vs DH", but IS ACTUALLY "buhu, DH is still not balanced at all after 2 rounds of nerfs, the second of which was basically a joke and actually made the class stronger thanks to the nerf to sac pac. It's making the game experience toxic and I don't like it at all".

I genuinely don't think I can explain it in a clearer way. 

And the point you're missing is that the nerfs to DH were absolutely effective, the class is now as good as about 3 or 4 other classes/decks that are seeing a lot of play and having a lot of success - including some of the ones you're playing - so it's time to f-ing stop complaining everyday. Because if DH is not balanced as you say, so isn't Rogue, Hunter and that new Tempo Warrior. Shall we nerf everything to the ground? Adding that you're mainly playing Rogue just added insult to injury, considering the class also has some cards that are clearly overtuned af (Blackjack Stunner and the entire secret package are insane). Many people are reporting Rogue singlehandedly killing Druid off the meta. Shadowjeweler lategame turns are giving me Mysterious Challenger vietnam-style flashbacks, and you're still going on about Sac Pact?! Unbelievable that people still think that a single class having an exclusive "fuck this other class" card was ok.

Also, Tempo DH popularity in term of playrate is inflated simply because it costs A LOT less than the other tier1 options to craft. Not everyone has the dust to play decks running 10 legendaries.

And if you think the DH nerfs did nothing you're crazy. Battlefiend starting at 1 atk is a HUGE deal and allowed me to stabilize with a decent amount of HPs against DH more times than I can count, you can now easily get something like 4-6 less damage over the course of a game from double Battlefiend openings compared to pre-nerf, putting you out of his burst lethal range at turn 5-7. The first round of nerfs + the Kaelthas one on the second wave completely killed Combo DH. Aldrachi's nerf was another huge deal for aggro vs aggro matchups (and combo vs aggro too), you could as well instaconcede those before, there was about no reason to play any aggro but DH. Skull at 6 gets stuck in hand a lot more easily now, especially now that DHs are reincluding higher drops. Before the nerf, playing non-outcast Skull was actually ok, giving DH some undeserved victory chances in games he had no business winning; now without Outcast it's garbage.

The game is in an ok-ish state now, there are like 4 classes out of 10 with extremely competitive decks, and another 2 or 3 with strong or at least playable decks. That's about as balanced as we can ever hope to get. Sure some classes could use some buffs (and I do hope they'll receive them. Go Shaman), but further nerfs to DH would just put the class in the dumpster along with Paladin and Shaman.

OP using Rogue you have about zero rights to whine

There are like 5 or 6 decks/classes that are more than competitive in the current meta (Rogue being one of them) and that can definitely keep up with DH. I'm sorry, but if after 2 rounds of nerfs (that had a strong impact, despite the constant whining) you're still always losing to DH, you're either:

- Not playing a competitive deck (your choice)

- Playing a competitive deck that has a bad matchup vs DH (but hopefully good against other competitive decks, so that's your choice again)

- Playing a competitive deck that is good or at least decent against DH, but you're bad at piloting it