And as people have said over several runs the long term randomness does even out and averages should stay the same.
Better players will still have better records, but that doesn't mean that the averages will be the same. That's the point people are trying to make: The deck matters more than before. That means skill matters less. That means good averages will decrease (and bad averages will increase).
And as people have said over several runs the long term randomness does even out and averages should stay the same.
Better players will still have better records, but that doesn't mean that the averages will be the same. That's the point people are trying to make: The deck matters more than before. That means skill matters less. That means good averages will decrease (and bad averages will increase).
It's interesting to see how people don't understand how statistics and probability works. Decks may mater more on an individual runs but this only increases the variance or standard deviation of a persons results the mean doesn't change. Skill will still be the only factor over a long term set of runs.
The longer a match goes, the odds for a bad draft to win get lower. Before this meta you could rush an opponent down with a bad deck and still get a decent result, that is unlikely now.
Chakki and Twlevewins had 8-9 win averages in February. I don't expect high averages like that for the March leaderboard. The win rate of the top players should not suffer because the system makes drafting 2 drops difficult.
I like playing midrange decks in this meta and the spell bonus is nice for board swings. But aggro drafts need to be part of the meta to help keep control drafts in check and keep the game balanced.
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4x Top 150 arena player #95 June 2017 6.80, #108 Aug 2017 7.67, #127 Feb 2018 Wildfest 7.7, #33 Nov 2018 7.53
HCT Challenger Finals qualifier: 2018 Season 1, 2, 3
After 5 runs of new arena, I decided don't play it before expansion out. It's like RNG fiesta and you ever can't get any pleasure from it. Only salt and rage.
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One day this game will stop existing. I can't wait.
This thread is hilarious. So many people are saying all sorts of different things about why they like the change or why they hate it. In the end, it really just boils down to this: people winning more think it's great, and people winning less think it's terrible.
This thread is hilarious. So many people are saying all sorts of different things about why they like the change or why they hate it. In the end, it really just boils down to this: people winning more think it's great, and people winning less think it's terrible.
my winrate is more than before and i still hate it
Idk if it's just me but my wr has improved since the arena change
Yup. Ditto. Seems more about effectively using removal. And you can build toward actual synergies instead of "heres the best curve based on what people smarter than me at heartharena tell me."
I'm still shocked they moved away from Wild Arena when there was outcry everywhere about it. Nobody wanted this change and now arena is broken. There's no value trading and learning the basic principles of board presence inside out. It's an RNG clown fiesta out there. Arena was the last remaining enjoyable format and they decided to destroy it.
They should at least bring back Wild Arena as an additional option.
There were some good arena changes YES, but the worst change was MAKING ARENA STANDARD. Blizzard should simply added all the changes (more epic and legendaries and spells) with ALL cards instead of standard cards only.
I still hope for an wild-arena, but until then i'm sure that i won't play arena ever again.
AFAIK it's mostly the less experienced complaining about Arena becoming standard, no offense. None of the pro streamers and other veterans I know complain about this change.
People who defends wild aren't even looking at the full picture. Do I really want OP af cards from previous expansions to come to the forefront when they made the rarity/spells change? Heck no, if you want Priests with more velens, more lightbombs, and paladins with more musters and coghammers, there'd be objectively something more to complain about. And I'm only listing some of the most OPaf cards that was in the previous expansions. If wild was still in place drafting will become even more of a "lottery" as some people are criticizing it for.
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Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player. Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
the standart change isnt the bad one(but it is bad) but the change in the rares and epics and the spells i literally played against drragon priest with like 10 dragon and synergy like standart and he had fucking 3 dragonfire potions and holy nova like wtf??? how can you play like this when he just destroys your board every turn
Standard is clearly an amazing change for arena and I don't see how it couldn't be, I'm so happy they did it. Actually being able to draft synergy in your deck for the first time (properly) is great. It's made (along with the patch) arena deck building much more intelligent rather than basically trying to draft a good curve and nothing more.
Old arena had 2 main aspects. Tempo (curve) and value. I liked the way that good curve wins games in the old arena. But in new arena i only see value aspect of the arena. Which is more similar to constructed. Arena being more similar to constructed what makes the arena less fun i guess.
I'm not going to argue whether the new arena is better or worse. Personally, though, I'm not sure it works for me. I don't play arena a lot, but I used to average 4 wins - not great, but not awful - with occasional spikes to 8-9 wins. I was excited by the announced arena changes, but in the five runs I've made with these changes, I've gone 1-2 wins each time. Some of that is undoubtedly my play, but some of it is also undoubtedly my drafts, which have not featured many good options. Add to that the fact that my losses have largely not been competitive, and I think I'm about to bow out of arena if nothing changes by my tenth run. It's not for me anymore.
I'm not sure what they are using for giving out cards but it's very wild. I have seen draft sets that are very good and synergistic and have seen just as many selections where i am not even sure what card pool they are pulling from. It can very often be extremely hard to draft a solid curve with some splash spells. I'm kind of okay with that as long as that is exactly what they were going for. I will say though some classes just flat out have better card selection in general and are easier to synergy around.
It's still a bit to early to call this a bad design but i can see some tweaks being needed. I don't think anyone that played Wild arena a great deal wants to go back to that card pool.
I didn't do well in the first place, but this deck was absolutely rotten. I believe I will continue not playing the arena, and not in the least because it has been standardized.
The first week was excellent; I did, and still do to some extent, enjoy that I'm "in control" of which cards to play around. The issue lies with how the amount of wins you get now only purely relies on the individual card-quality of your deck. Pre-Arena I regularly (estimated 1/5?) went 12-wins with a reasonable+ deck. If I'm drafting only a "decent" deck it's nearly impossible to beat constructed-tier mages with a bumped-up spell draft bonus. So yeah, while I do enjoy that the meta's slowed down and it's not entirely curvestone it's basically transformed from draw RNG to draft RNG.
Things might change, I'm by no means a master after only 2 weeks of play but I'm not too big a fan.
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Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Are you joking? The new arena is amazing you have more control over the games overall. You can more consistantly draft spells and play a slower control game instead of just pure RNG who gets the better curve wins bullshit as before. The arena is a lot more skill based rather then RNG based which is good. More thought has to go into what type of deck you are crafting, need to play more around spells more as well etc.
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The longer a match goes, the odds for a bad draft to win get lower. Before this meta you could rush an opponent down with a bad deck and still get a decent result, that is unlikely now.
Chakki and Twlevewins had 8-9 win averages in February. I don't expect high averages like that for the March leaderboard. The win rate of the top players should not suffer because the system makes drafting 2 drops difficult.
I like playing midrange decks in this meta and the spell bonus is nice for board swings. But aggro drafts need to be part of the meta to help keep control drafts in check and keep the game balanced.
4x Top 150 arena player
#95 June 2017 6.80, #108 Aug 2017 7.67, #127 Feb 2018 Wildfest 7.7, #33 Nov 2018 7.53
HCT Challenger Finals qualifier: 2018 Season 1, 2, 3
I actually started playing around epics jsut now i played vs dragonfire potion and he really had it
also i got twich in a row twisting in my deck in 2 drafts thats so insane
After 5 runs of new arena, I decided don't play it before expansion out. It's like RNG fiesta and you ever can't get any pleasure from it. Only salt and rage.
One day this game will stop existing. I can't wait.
This thread is hilarious. So many people are saying all sorts of different things about why they like the change or why they hate it. In the end, it really just boils down to this: people winning more think it's great, and people winning less think it's terrible.
I'm still shocked they moved away from Wild Arena when there was outcry everywhere about it. Nobody wanted this change and now arena is broken. There's no value trading and learning the basic principles of board presence inside out. It's an RNG clown fiesta out there. Arena was the last remaining enjoyable format and they decided to destroy it.
They should at least bring back Wild Arena as an additional option.
There were some good arena changes YES, but the worst change was MAKING ARENA STANDARD. Blizzard should simply added all the changes (more epic and legendaries and spells) with ALL cards instead of standard cards only.
I still hope for an wild-arena, but until then i'm sure that i won't play arena ever again.
AFAIK it's mostly the less experienced complaining about Arena becoming standard, no offense. None of the pro streamers and other veterans I know complain about this change.
People who defends wild aren't even looking at the full picture. Do I really want OP af cards from previous expansions to come to the forefront when they made the rarity/spells change? Heck no, if you want Priests with more velens, more lightbombs, and paladins with more musters and coghammers, there'd be objectively something more to complain about. And I'm only listing some of the most OPaf cards that was in the previous expansions. If wild was still in place drafting will become even more of a "lottery" as some people are criticizing it for.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
the standart change isnt the bad one(but it is bad) but the change in the rares and epics and the spells i literally played against drragon priest with like 10 dragon and synergy like standart and he had fucking 3 dragonfire potions and holy nova like wtf??? how can you play like this when he just destroys your board every turn
Standard is clearly an amazing change for arena and I don't see how it couldn't be, I'm so happy they did it. Actually being able to draft synergy in your deck for the first time (properly) is great. It's made (along with the patch) arena deck building much more intelligent rather than basically trying to draft a good curve and nothing more.
Someone didn't trust their heart of the cards.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
Old arena had 2 main aspects. Tempo (curve) and value. I liked the way that good curve wins games in the old arena. But in new arena i only see value aspect of the arena. Which is more similar to constructed. Arena being more similar to constructed what makes the arena less fun i guess.
I'm not going to argue whether the new arena is better or worse. Personally, though, I'm not sure it works for me. I don't play arena a lot, but I used to average 4 wins - not great, but not awful - with occasional spikes to 8-9 wins. I was excited by the announced arena changes, but in the five runs I've made with these changes, I've gone 1-2 wins each time. Some of that is undoubtedly my play, but some of it is also undoubtedly my drafts, which have not featured many good options. Add to that the fact that my losses have largely not been competitive, and I think I'm about to bow out of arena if nothing changes by my tenth run. It's not for me anymore.
I'm not sure what they are using for giving out cards but it's very wild. I have seen draft sets that are very good and synergistic and have seen just as many selections where i am not even sure what card pool they are pulling from. It can very often be extremely hard to draft a solid curve with some splash spells. I'm kind of okay with that as long as that is exactly what they were going for. I will say though some classes just flat out have better card selection in general and are easier to synergy around.
It's still a bit to early to call this a bad design but i can see some tweaks being needed. I don't think anyone that played Wild arena a great deal wants to go back to that card pool.
I didn't do well in the first place, but this deck was absolutely rotten. I believe I will continue not playing the arena, and not in the least because it has been standardized.
The first week was excellent; I did, and still do to some extent, enjoy that I'm "in control" of which cards to play around. The issue lies with how the amount of wins you get now only purely relies on the individual card-quality of your deck. Pre-Arena I regularly (estimated 1/5?) went 12-wins with a reasonable+ deck. If I'm drafting only a "decent" deck it's nearly impossible to beat constructed-tier mages with a bumped-up spell draft bonus. So yeah, while I do enjoy that the meta's slowed down and it's not entirely curvestone it's basically transformed from draw RNG to draft RNG.
Things might change, I'm by no means a master after only 2 weeks of play but I'm not too big a fan.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Are you joking? The new arena is amazing you have more control over the games overall. You can more consistantly draft spells and play a slower control game instead of just pure RNG who gets the better curve wins bullshit as before.
The arena is a lot more skill based rather then RNG based which is good. More thought has to go into what type of deck you are crafting, need to play more around spells more as well etc.