This is coming from a player than doesnt play rogue too often. i havent seen rogue on latter this entire month literally not one game. is it just because all the other classes have received op cards in the last couple of expansions while rogue has only gotten mediocre ones at best or what? When i play tempo rogue for the 40 gold i dont feel like the class is completely unusable. maybe just needs one or two really good stealth cards ? I feel bad for rogue players and want to play against more of them.
Main reason she isn't played that much is the difficulty of deck (mainly Oil rogue). It requires a lot of brainstorming but is rewarding if you make right calls. My friend got to legend 4 days in new season (September 4) with Oil rogue.
Well considering how many people push for face damage, you never want to use your hero power and hit Leper Gnomes. Other then that, Rogue has been the least popular class since it can't use inspire efficiently (if you drop an inspire card while you have a buffed 3/2 wicked blade, then you cry a little inside). This as well as MisterSmith post should give you an overall idea why rogue is...."rare".
To add one more infuriating thing is how "strict" most of rogue's decks are. You need to craft the entire deck to make it work, you can't rarely (if ever) sub out cards.
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Oil rogue is still very strong in a vacuum, but the meta is wrong for it. It used to farm paladin and priest, but the most popular contemporary archetypes for those classes (secret paladin and dragon priest) are much better against oil rogue than the classes' pre-TGT decks were. There are also a fair number of people playing freeze mage and control warrior, which are terrible matchups for oil rogue.
We should all remember, though, that five or six weeks after GvG came out, rogue was in the exact same place. Miracle rogue was dead, there were no good rogue decks, and nobody was playing the class at all. Nobody had worked out how to use Tinker's Sharpsword Oil yet. It took like a month and a half for a good oil rogue deck to emerge. TGT had some very interesting rogue cards. We may yet see a new rogue archetype come along.
Huge reliance on drawing Sprint at the right times, high chance of having a clogged, useless hand because of so many combo/reactive spells and no minions, lack of strong class minions in general.
Oil rogue has always had a lot of little issues, but with other top tier decks being continually refined and improved through new cards from GvG to TGT (while rogue stayed the same), these problems are becoming more and more apparent.
Rogue isn't bad, just people haven't figured out the high skill cap of rogue (it's a difficult class to play) and it's also unpopular. It's also possible less skilled players tend to play rogue than other classes but they are likely equal in skill but when matched in skill are at a disadvantage as the skill floor is higher. Oil rogue sees competitive play and rogues have for a long time been the strongest class in hearthstone pre-GVG.
This is really a L2P issue, they only seam bad but rogues are very strong and viable in the current metagame. Perhaps a few of the pros will eventually bring out their rogue tech in up coming tournaments once they have things more figured out. Perhaps there is a new rogue deck we don't even know about that could take the meta by storm so we'll have to wait and see what is in store for the class, nothing needs to be changed yet.
There is a great number of pirate rogues right now, which is kinda a half SmORC hunter and half shockadin type of thing.
But Oil rogue and in general, rogue, as a class has became the same old. Adding aggro after the pirate support from TGT isn't that inspiring(puns) since TGT was released right after a aggrofilled meta. They need something new, like how Druids need something new(it's always ramp, play on curve, or combo, play oncurve), Priests(control only),Hunter(way too strongly based on aggro).Warlock,Shaman, Mage, and Pally have had good amounts of variance. Warlock can be heavy control handlock, midrange zoolock, or aggrozoolock. They also had murloc warloc before, a malylock and now a dreadsteed combo. Shaman has had midrange, aggro mech, murloc. Mage has had Hard control freezemage, several minicombo decks, Tempo mage, and mechmage(the mech mage idea was good, blizz gave them a powerfulcard(flamewaker) and now it's becoming mage's identity). Paladin has control, a control-=emphasised midrange(control was popular pre GvG, midrange/control was popular for a while post GvG), aggro(BRM), dragon(BRM) and now midrange secret.
Hunter used to have control but Blizz completley ruined it by fking up the interactions it had(UTH buzzard). They are slowing the deck down, or trying to, as the TGT cards all support a control, or at least midrange hunter deck(The whole TGT was meant to slow the game down, which it has)
This season I played Oilrogue to rank 4 and on my way from rank 10 I maybe faced two other rogues.
I think the reason is that rogue can be quite frustrating. You have almost no heal and max a single taunt, so that often you just get beaten up by brainless facedecks or the druid combo.
The aggro decks just vomit their hand and force you to have the right response. Good example is the secret pally. Playing the MC on turn 6 takes 0 skill, but clearing him is often very tricky and requires a lot of thinking and several cards. And if you finally did it, they slam the next one or Dr. Boom and you a f**ked again.
Another problem is Justicar Trueheart. The armor and life gain in warrior and priest is often just too much for your limited amount of damage.
I finally got my golden rogue, but uncertain if I will play it that much next season.
This pretty much sumarises rogue. I don't think there is enough reward for playing the deck well. Dr. Boom always gave me trouble it would always kill off my drakes or do lots of dmg to face killing me. He is a car that just can't be sapped.
The new TGT cards are really not useful at all for rogue. The only good card it has got in the last year was oil and possibly dark iron skullker but even though it's a good card on its own it doesn't seem to be able to find a spot in a rogue deck.
I'm trying to do a midrange/Zooish Rogue using Shado-Pan Riders and Undercity Valiants. It's kinda fun and different but I run out of shit to kill people with.
I feel like I could be somewhat competitive if I make some tweaks, maybe sneak in a Rag or DB or something instead of 2nd sprint idk. Something to actually kill the opponent :D. But I'm having fun trying something different so I guess that's ok.
Rogue currently has to be your favorite class in order to play with. I'm playing with rogue this season (oil variation) but I haven't got high enough (no time and when I have time, I'm bored of grinding the ladder). However, I find it viable enough because I do my best in every matchup. Mr. yagut and ryzen have gotten legend with rogue this season (oil and mill I think).
I wish rogues had an archetype like CW, which would not be broken but viable enough to get better control tools every expansion...
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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Rogue players actually need to think when they play to be effective, so plebs used to other classes find it hard to enter the Rogue master race.
On top of that, most seasoned rogue players are just bored, as there's been no new playable class cards since OIl. That reduces their players even more.
Because since beta, within 2 expansions and 2 adventures, Rogue got two cards (including neutrals) : Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Antique Healbot. The TGT Rogue cards were SO MUCH awful it disgusted a lot of players (including me) from playing Rogue this season. It's like Blizzard was deliberately insulting Rogue players.
Since GVG and the 2 only playable cards, Rogue got nothing, while every other class got buffed with strong new cards.
And every expansion brings new Rogue counters : Loatheb, Sludge Belcher, Antique Healbot, Saboteur while Rogue still gets nothing to counter its worst mathups (why Rogue has nothing to deal with secrets ?).
The meta is not in Valeera's favor too. Yes she does well against Patron (by well I mean, less than 60% chances of losing) but the Patron meta brought Harrison Jones and Acidic Swamp Ooze back in every deck, screwing Rogue in the same time. The heavy aggro meta is bad for Rogue too, since the hero power makes you take too much damage.
So, to sum up : - nothing new to play with since 2 years, people gets bored by the class - everybody gets buffed, Rogue gets nerfed - bad meta for the only playable archetype
Rogue is not bad or unplayable, like Shaman has been for a long time. Rogue just got annoying to play : same old deck, hard to play and not enough rewarding comparing to Secret Pally, Zoolock or Face Hunter.
Because since beta, within 2 expansions and 2 adventures, Rogue got two cards (including neutrals) : Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Antique Healbot. The TGT Rogue cards were SO MUCH awful it disgusted a lot of players (including me) from playing Rogue this season. It's like Blizzard was deliberately insulting Rogue players.
Actually the rogue cards in both GvG and TGT weren't that horrible, some were even rather decent and if given to another class could potentially see play the problem with those cards - and that happens quite often with Blizzards card design - is that they push a kind of rogue deck that does not exist while not being powerful enough to make it exist.
Rogue has gotten a bunch of cards that push a minion based tempo deck like Goblin Auto-Barber, Shado-Pan Rider, Dark Iron Skulker or even Buccaneer alongside a few that would actually suggest a more control oriented archetype and none of those cards are really bad, especially given their good synergy with the Rogue's hero power.
It's just that rogue lacks the tools to make such an archetype good, it does not have the means to be midrangey and it certainly doesn't have the right tools to be a control deck so these cards simply vanish into a void of existing and not being horrible but not seein play regardless. It is the same fate most dragon synergy cards from BRM suffered from until there actually came valid dragon decks to the meta.
Rogue has SI7. its our only great minon. One great 3 drop wont take the class anywhere for now.. we need atleast one more great class minion :(
They also have Shadowpan warrior or w/e he is called but yea there is a lack of good staple class minions.
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This is coming from a player than doesnt play rogue too often. i havent seen rogue on latter this entire month literally not one game. is it just because all the other classes have received op cards in the last couple of expansions while rogue has only gotten mediocre ones at best or what? When i play tempo rogue for the 40 gold i dont feel like the class is completely unusable. maybe just needs one or two really good stealth cards ? I feel bad for rogue players and want to play against more of them.
Because dumb Blizzard made shit cards for rogue in TGT, same goes for shaman
Main reason she isn't played that much is the difficulty of deck (mainly Oil rogue). It requires a lot of brainstorming but is rewarding if you make right calls. My friend got to legend 4 days in new season (September 4) with Oil rogue.
oil is ok, but its been here for a while so its kinda boring (at least for me) and there are better decks too
They need something like this to enable their combos or give them tempo
hi
Well considering how many people push for face damage, you never want to use your hero power and hit Leper Gnomes. Other then that, Rogue has been the least popular class since it can't use inspire efficiently (if you drop an inspire card while you have a buffed 3/2 wicked blade, then you cry a little inside). This as well as MisterSmith post should give you an overall idea why rogue is...."rare".
To add one more infuriating thing is how "strict" most of rogue's decks are. You need to craft the entire deck to make it work, you can't rarely (if ever) sub out cards.
If you look closely, you can see this is a signature and not a comment. Why are you reading? Stop reading this. Did you read this too? Dang you must like reading.
It's not stable and takes some thinking to play. The only viable one is oil rogue.
Oil rogue is still very strong in a vacuum, but the meta is wrong for it. It used to farm paladin and priest, but the most popular contemporary archetypes for those classes (secret paladin and dragon priest) are much better against oil rogue than the classes' pre-TGT decks were. There are also a fair number of people playing freeze mage and control warrior, which are terrible matchups for oil rogue.
We should all remember, though, that five or six weeks after GvG came out, rogue was in the exact same place. Miracle rogue was dead, there were no good rogue decks, and nobody was playing the class at all. Nobody had worked out how to use Tinker's Sharpsword Oil yet. It took like a month and a half for a good oil rogue deck to emerge. TGT had some very interesting rogue cards. We may yet see a new rogue archetype come along.
Huge reliance on drawing Sprint at the right times, high chance of having a clogged, useless hand because of so many combo/reactive spells and no minions, lack of strong class minions in general.
Oil rogue has always had a lot of little issues, but with other top tier decks being continually refined and improved through new cards from GvG to TGT (while rogue stayed the same), these problems are becoming more and more apparent.
Deck just feels way too unreliable these days.
Just stopped playing rogue, can't stand such weak class and cards, farming gold with eboladin and hybrid hunter now
Rogue isn't bad, just people haven't figured out the high skill cap of rogue (it's a difficult class to play) and it's also unpopular. It's also possible less skilled players tend to play rogue than other classes but they are likely equal in skill but when matched in skill are at a disadvantage as the skill floor is higher. Oil rogue sees competitive play and rogues have for a long time been the strongest class in hearthstone pre-GVG.
This is really a L2P issue, they only seam bad but rogues are very strong and viable in the current metagame. Perhaps a few of the pros will eventually bring out their rogue tech in up coming tournaments once they have things more figured out. Perhaps there is a new rogue deck we don't even know about that could take the meta by storm so we'll have to wait and see what is in store for the class, nothing needs to be changed yet.
Because Rogues are annoying. If Rogues are strong enough, then more often would their opponents waiting for them burning ropes and show off.
There is a great number of pirate rogues right now, which is kinda a half SmORC hunter and half shockadin type of thing.
But Oil rogue and in general, rogue, as a class has became the same old. Adding aggro after the pirate support from TGT isn't that inspiring(puns) since TGT was released right after a aggrofilled meta. They need something new, like how Druids need something new(it's always ramp, play on curve, or combo, play oncurve), Priests(control only),Hunter(way too strongly based on aggro).Warlock,Shaman, Mage, and Pally have had good amounts of variance. Warlock can be heavy control handlock, midrange zoolock, or aggrozoolock. They also had murloc warloc before, a malylock and now a dreadsteed combo. Shaman has had midrange, aggro mech, murloc. Mage has had Hard control freezemage, several minicombo decks, Tempo mage, and mechmage(the mech mage idea was good, blizz gave them a powerfulcard(flamewaker) and now it's becoming mage's identity). Paladin has control, a control-=emphasised midrange(control was popular pre GvG, midrange/control was popular for a while post GvG), aggro(BRM), dragon(BRM) and now midrange secret.
Hunter used to have control but Blizz completley ruined it by fking up the interactions it had(UTH buzzard). They are slowing the deck down, or trying to, as the TGT cards all support a control, or at least midrange hunter deck(The whole TGT was meant to slow the game down, which it has)
This pretty much sumarises rogue. I don't think there is enough reward for playing the deck well. Dr. Boom always gave me trouble it would always kill off my drakes or do lots of dmg to face killing me. He is a car that just can't be sapped.
The new TGT cards are really not useful at all for rogue. The only good card it has got in the last year was oil and possibly dark iron skullker but even though it's a good card on its own it doesn't seem to be able to find a spot in a rogue deck.
I'm trying to do a midrange/Zooish Rogue using Shado-Pan Riders and Undercity Valiants. It's kinda fun and different but I run out of shit to kill people with.
http://imgur.com/NfssAvq
I feel like I could be somewhat competitive if I make some tweaks, maybe sneak in a Rag or DB or something instead of 2nd sprint idk. Something to actually kill the opponent :D. But I'm having fun trying something different so I guess that's ok.
Whatever everyone said +
Rogue currently has to be your favorite class in order to play with. I'm playing with rogue this season (oil variation) but I haven't got high enough (no time and when I have time, I'm bored of grinding the ladder). However, I find it viable enough because I do my best in every matchup. Mr. yagut and ryzen have gotten legend with rogue this season (oil and mill I think).
I wish rogues had an archetype like CW, which would not be broken but viable enough to get better control tools every expansion...
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Rogue players actually need to think when they play to be effective, so plebs used to other classes find it hard to enter the Rogue master race.
On top of that, most seasoned rogue players are just bored, as there's been no new playable class cards since OIl. That reduces their players even more.
Legend Rogue, druid when lazy
Because since beta, within 2 expansions and 2 adventures, Rogue got two cards (including neutrals) : Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Antique Healbot. The TGT Rogue cards were SO MUCH awful it disgusted a lot of players (including me) from playing Rogue this season. It's like Blizzard was deliberately insulting Rogue players.
In the same time, they were nerfed several times (hero power, Defias Ringleader, Edwin VanCleef, Leeroy Jenkins, Gadgetzan Auctioneer), making most Rogue decks unplayable.
Since GVG and the 2 only playable cards, Rogue got nothing, while every other class got buffed with strong new cards.
And every expansion brings new Rogue counters : Loatheb, Sludge Belcher, Antique Healbot, Saboteur while Rogue still gets nothing to counter its worst mathups (why Rogue has nothing to deal with secrets ?).
The meta is not in Valeera's favor too. Yes she does well against Patron (by well I mean, less than 60% chances of losing) but the Patron meta brought Harrison Jones and Acidic Swamp Ooze back in every deck, screwing Rogue in the same time.
The heavy aggro meta is bad for Rogue too, since the hero power makes you take too much damage.
So, to sum up :
- nothing new to play with since 2 years, people gets bored by the class
- everybody gets buffed, Rogue gets nerfed
- bad meta for the only playable archetype
Rogue is not bad or unplayable, like Shaman has been for a long time. Rogue just got annoying to play : same old deck, hard to play and not enough rewarding comparing to Secret Pally, Zoolock or Face Hunter.
I agree, Trade Prince Gallywix and Dark Iron Skulker could be decent, but they are far from enough to bring a viable Midrange/Control Rogue deck.
In the same time, Blizzard tries to push a Pirate Rogue, that will never happen.
They also have Shadowpan warrior or w/e he is called but yea there is a lack of good staple class minions.
If you look closely, you can see this is a signature and not a comment. Why are you reading? Stop reading this. Did you read this too? Dang you must like reading.