Obviously it will be swayed depending on 1 cost spells forged in the barrens introduces, but A LOT of bad 1 cost spells got yeeted out of the core set, on top of a lot of awkward 1 cost spells from the rotating expansions.
The most notable is for Rogue, in which i think it will make the cut in aggro , cause the pool is just Brain Freeze, Deadly Poison, Nitroboost Poison, Secret Passage and Sinister Strike. Only Brain Freeze is not maindecked, but it will still be crazy good to get to remove taunts or slow your opponents from killing you while you kill them.
DH already played Wandmaker, because their pool was already really good, and i don't think the removal of Twin Slice will change that
For Shaman it's pretty good, especially considering the amount of pseudo-silence you can get : Devolving Missiles or Revolve. That or you get decent discover cards : Guidance, Primordial Studies, or the all-around good Lightning Bolt. If some sort of spell-based shaman sees the light of the day, wandmaker is definitely gonna make the cut.
Hydrologist is back in Paladin! Kind of. With all the shitty 1-cost spells of the basic paladin set gone, 2/3 of the pool is secrets, and they are pretty good! : Avenge, Noble Sacrifice, Oh My Yogg!, Reckoning. The two other cards, while situational, can surprise you opponent and give you extremely favorable trades : Wave of Apathy and Shield of Honor.
While the Priest pool has a lot of situational spells that might sit in your hand for a while (Flash Heal, Focused Will), Priest will get Thrive in the Shadows, which if they don't get good card draw next expansion they will have to rely on to get their important spells in time. If Thrive in the Shadows becomes a staple of control priest, i think wandmaker might make the cut so you can potentially get those good to decent Draconic Studies, Holy Smite, Renew, Wave of Apathy without having to maindeck them and risk clogging up your Thrive in the Shadows spell pool.
And finally, Warlock. It has the most awkward pool of all : Shadow Council, Unstable Felbolt, Wicked Whispers, Demonic Studies, Felosophy, Mortal Coil. Most of those card can find an interest depending on which deck you're playing (Felosophy and Demonic Studies if you're memeing with a specific demon or tickatus, or Unstable Felbolt and Wicked Whispers in zoo). But the unreliability is the highest amongst all classes. Still, in a zoo deck with demons, most of those can find an use, either by giving you tempo, or giving you more cards. Only Shadow Council is unplayable unless for a last chance save with some demons with special effects.
Good post! Interesting to see them lined up like this.
That's the one thing Blizzard kind of painted themselves into a corner with, the shallow pool of cards for Discover effects and Random generated effects. We will see soon if this is a problem they saw coming and intend to do away with from this year onwards, when we see the cards for FitB and if they contain effects like that or not.
This might be a bridge year where Blizz works towards a new standard of cards to be used with the Core set and things might be rough in certain regards.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I can imagine some 1 cost spells being printed this expansion, and based on the data it will throw blizzard probably will add even more during the year to balance her indirectly, same for things like the 5 mana minions for Jandice Barov and so, but this expansion will be interesting for sure, the only thing i can say is, i wont be surprised if my opponent highrolls at the start cause it will be more like and average result, at least until new sets come out and "worse" outcomes are added to the pool.
at least until new sets come out and "worse" outcomes are added to the pool.
Yeah, but the thing is that with a slimmed down and efficient Core set and only 135 cards per expansion, there's not actually any room to really print shitty 1 drops or 5 drops or 7 drops for things like Auspicious Spirits. They only have 135 cards and if they start adding in shitty cards, then nobody is going to buy the set.
That mind set of "Well, there's shitty options too so that balances out" worked when we had Classic and Basic and it works in Wild cause you have a gazillion different sets to pull from. In Standard not so much.
BUT
That might not actually be a downside.
Blizzard knows this and has designed things with this in mind, so maybe the overall powerlevel between classes is perfectly balanced, even if some classes can play Jandice Barov and pull two really nice 5 drops. Maybe that's balanced by another class doing something else equally broken due to their available cards.
I mean, I worry that certain cards will be too powerful compared to their contemporaries in Standard, and that the next year might be rough around the edges as we come to grips with some of the excessive cards not leaving Standard yet, but it might not be as big of a problem as it seems due to compensation elsewhere.
And, there's always just the option of nerfing stuff and putting Jandice at 6 mana or something, even if just for the time she remains in Standard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Cards that generate random cards from a restricted pool are of course going to see more play at the beginning of a new year when the standard rotation consists of fewer sets and this pool of cards it generates is even more restricted. It's not so much about the quality of the cards it generates as it is about the consistency. Wandmaker was seeing quite a bit of play already when it was released and fell a lot in popularity with every new expansion/mini-set. At the same time though, many decks are pretty tight, they already run 2x of each of those 1-cost spells that they care about and it is not clear whether they will be able to make room for Wandmaker. Like Aggro Weapon Rogue for example, it's hard to justify cutting any card in the deck to run a 2-mana 2/2 that doesn't impact the board and only generates a bit of value.
At the same time though, many decks are pretty tight, they already run 2x of each of those 1-cost spells that they care about and it is not clear whether they will be able to make room for Wandmaker. Like Aggro Weapon Rogue for example, it's hard to justify cutting any card in the deck to run a 2-mana 2/2 that doesn't impact the board and only generates a bit of value.
I mean, with eviscerate gone, there are two spots for the taking ^^
This card will be in every agro / midrange deck in the next 3 months. Whoever thinks otherswise are not able to analyse the game. The described pool is crazy already and probably more is coming in 1st expansion. The total power level is going to be lowered a bit, due to 3 expansions disappear and only one appear, so again, it is wandmakers time to shine.
In paladin its gonna be very good with the updated secret pool.
Like Aggro Weapon Rogue for example, it's hard to justify cutting any card in the deck to run a 2-mana 2/2 that doesn't impact the board and only generates a bit of value.
I have heard something like this before... Oh... Yes! "Rogue will never play a 3 mana 1/5 that doesn't impact the board"
at least until new sets come out and "worse" outcomes are added to the pool.
Yeah, but the thing is that with a slimmed down and efficient Core set and only 135 cards per expansion, there's not actually any room to really print shitty 1 drops or 5 drops or 7 drops for things like Auspicious Spirits. They only have 135 cards and if they start adding in shitty cards, then nobody is going to buy the set.
That mind set of "Well, there's shitty options too so that balances out" worked when we had Classic and Basic and it works in Wild cause you have a gazillion different sets to pull from. In Standard not so much.
BUT
That might not actually be a downside.
Blizzard knows this and has designed things with this in mind, so maybe the overall powerlevel between classes is perfectly balanced, even if some classes can play Jandice Barov and pull two really nice 5 drops. Maybe that's balanced by another class doing something else equally broken due to their available cards.
I mean, I worry that certain cards will be too powerful compared to their contemporaries in Standard, and that the next year might be rough around the edges as we come to grips with some of the excessive cards not leaving Standard yet, but it might not be as big of a problem as it seems due to compensation elsewhere.
And, there's always just the option of nerfing stuff and putting Jandice at 6 mana or something, even if just for the time she remains in Standard.
im not saying worse in a direct way, i mean more situational outcomes, i dont like the idea of the power increasing for all just because, well one class makes this broken stuff is ok just because this other has another broken stuff to answer, everything being broken to balance due to equaly high power is a terrible path to follow
This says everything you need to know about the power level of Wandmaker unless there will be many weak 1-cost spells in the next. That pool really isn't as awkward as you might think in a more tempo-based demon list. And it's not really realistic that they print many bad spells because they need to sell product. Sure, 1 or 2 classes will get 1 bad 1-cost spell, but that doesn't change much.
I counted 6 total 1-cost spells and none of them seem bad, either, but it's hard to say what kind of decks will be popular in the new expansion since most of the archetypes will be powerbombed into the trash with rotation and core changes.
That said, I'm still hopeful for new stuff and look forward to trying out whatever they reveal for FitB. Maybe no-minion (spell) mage could be a thing again?! More support pls, kthx.
The most notable is for Rogue, in which i think it will make the cut in aggro , cause the pool is just Brain Freeze, Deadly Poison, Nitroboost Poison, Secret Passage and Sinister Strike. Only Brain Freeze is not maindecked, but it will still be crazy good to get to remove taunts or slow your opponents from killing you while you kill them.
Well, at least Nitro will no longer be created by Wandmaker....
The most notable is for Rogue, in which i think it will make the cut in aggro , cause the pool is just Brain Freeze, Deadly Poison, Nitroboost Poison, Secret Passage and Sinister Strike. Only Brain Freeze is not maindecked, but it will still be crazy good to get to remove taunts or slow your opponents from killing you while you kill them.
Well, at least Nitro will no longer be created by Wandmaker....
Ow, and shaman boys... Remember, lightning bolt is still around and its nature spell. And the new legendary has +3 nature SPD. If burn shaman is a thing, wandmaker will be bonkers there!
The most notable is for Rogue, in which i think it will make the cut in aggro , cause the pool is just Brain Freeze, Deadly Poison, Nitroboost Poison, Secret Passage and Sinister Strike. Only Brain Freeze is not maindecked, but it will still be crazy good to get to remove taunts or slow your opponents from killing you while you kill them.
Well, at least Nitro will no longer be created by Wandmaker....
blizzard just copy pasted the decks from the coming patch and 2 mana nitro bust poison was there, when they realized changed it back to one mana but people was already spreading it.
if you look at the coments in the post you can see how people was already talking about it
Obviously it will be swayed depending on 1 cost spells forged in the barrens introduces, but A LOT of bad 1 cost spells got yeeted out of the core set, on top of a lot of awkward 1 cost spells from the rotating expansions.
The most notable is for Rogue, in which i think it will make the cut in aggro , cause the pool is just Brain Freeze, Deadly Poison, Nitroboost Poison, Secret Passage and Sinister Strike. Only Brain Freeze is not maindecked, but it will still be crazy good to get to remove taunts or slow your opponents from killing you while you kill them.
DH already played Wandmaker, because their pool was already really good, and i don't think the removal of Twin Slice will change that
For Shaman it's pretty good, especially considering the amount of pseudo-silence you can get : Devolving Missiles or Revolve. That or you get decent discover cards : Guidance, Primordial Studies, or the all-around good Lightning Bolt. If some sort of spell-based shaman sees the light of the day, wandmaker is definitely gonna make the cut.
Druid is interesting, since it's basically all value generation/discover except Adorable Infestation : Guidance, Nature Studies, Partner Assignment, Resizing Pouch.
With Hunter, you get one of 3 categories : board presence with Adorable Infestation or Demon Companion, cheap removal with Arcane Shot or Overwhelm, and a huge pool of discover/value generation : Carrion Studies, Lock and Load, Resizing Pouch, Tracking. In aggro/midrange hunter, there is no bad results in that pool, except maybe Lock and Load which might be hit or miss depending on how many spells you have.
Hydrologist is back in Paladin! Kind of. With all the shitty 1-cost spells of the basic paladin set gone, 2/3 of the pool is secrets, and they are pretty good! : Avenge, Noble Sacrifice, Oh My Yogg!, Reckoning. The two other cards, while situational, can surprise you opponent and give you extremely favorable trades : Wave of Apathy and Shield of Honor.
While the Priest pool has a lot of situational spells that might sit in your hand for a while (Flash Heal, Focused Will), Priest will get Thrive in the Shadows, which if they don't get good card draw next expansion they will have to rely on to get their important spells in time. If Thrive in the Shadows becomes a staple of control priest, i think wandmaker might make the cut so you can potentially get those good to decent Draconic Studies, Holy Smite, Renew, Wave of Apathy without having to maindeck them and risk clogging up your Thrive in the Shadows spell pool.
For Warrior, you have some spells that might be hard to use effectively, or to their full extent (Shield Slam, Whirlwind, Stage Dive, Nitroboost Poison, Shield of Honor) but Athletic Studies and Sword and Board are always good. Overall because most of them can be unreliable, i don't think many decks will use a slot for wandmaker.
And finally, Warlock. It has the most awkward pool of all : Shadow Council, Unstable Felbolt, Wicked Whispers, Demonic Studies, Felosophy, Mortal Coil. Most of those card can find an interest depending on which deck you're playing (Felosophy and Demonic Studies if you're memeing with a specific demon or tickatus, or Unstable Felbolt and Wicked Whispers in zoo). But the unreliability is the highest amongst all classes. Still, in a zoo deck with demons, most of those can find an use, either by giving you tempo, or giving you more cards. Only Shadow Council is unplayable unless for a last chance save with some demons with special effects.
Good post! Interesting to see them lined up like this.
That's the one thing Blizzard kind of painted themselves into a corner with, the shallow pool of cards for Discover effects and Random generated effects. We will see soon if this is a problem they saw coming and intend to do away with from this year onwards, when we see the cards for FitB and if they contain effects like that or not.
This might be a bridge year where Blizz works towards a new standard of cards to be used with the Core set and things might be rough in certain regards.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I can imagine some 1 cost spells being printed this expansion, and based on the data it will throw blizzard probably will add even more during the year to balance her indirectly, same for things like the 5 mana minions for Jandice Barov and so, but this expansion will be interesting for sure, the only thing i can say is, i wont be surprised if my opponent highrolls at the start cause it will be more like and average result, at least until new sets come out and "worse" outcomes are added to the pool.
Yeah, but the thing is that with a slimmed down and efficient Core set and only 135 cards per expansion, there's not actually any room to really print shitty 1 drops or 5 drops or 7 drops for things like Auspicious Spirits. They only have 135 cards and if they start adding in shitty cards, then nobody is going to buy the set.
That mind set of "Well, there's shitty options too so that balances out" worked when we had Classic and Basic and it works in Wild cause you have a gazillion different sets to pull from. In Standard not so much.
BUT
That might not actually be a downside.
Blizzard knows this and has designed things with this in mind, so maybe the overall powerlevel between classes is perfectly balanced, even if some classes can play Jandice Barov and pull two really nice 5 drops. Maybe that's balanced by another class doing something else equally broken due to their available cards.
I mean, I worry that certain cards will be too powerful compared to their contemporaries in Standard, and that the next year might be rough around the edges as we come to grips with some of the excessive cards not leaving Standard yet, but it might not be as big of a problem as it seems due to compensation elsewhere.
And, there's always just the option of nerfing stuff and putting Jandice at 6 mana or something, even if just for the time she remains in Standard.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Cards that generate random cards from a restricted pool are of course going to see more play at the beginning of a new year when the standard rotation consists of fewer sets and this pool of cards it generates is even more restricted. It's not so much about the quality of the cards it generates as it is about the consistency. Wandmaker was seeing quite a bit of play already when it was released and fell a lot in popularity with every new expansion/mini-set.
At the same time though, many decks are pretty tight, they already run 2x of each of those 1-cost spells that they care about and it is not clear whether they will be able to make room for Wandmaker. Like Aggro Weapon Rogue for example, it's hard to justify cutting any card in the deck to run a 2-mana 2/2 that doesn't impact the board and only generates a bit of value.
I mean, with eviscerate gone, there are two spots for the taking ^^
This card will be in every agro / midrange deck in the next 3 months. Whoever thinks otherswise are not able to analyse the game. The described pool is crazy already and probably more is coming in 1st expansion. The total power level is going to be lowered a bit, due to 3 expansions disappear and only one appear, so again, it is wandmakers time to shine.
In paladin its gonna be very good with the updated secret pool.
I have heard something like this before... Oh... Yes! "Rogue will never play a 3 mana 1/5 that doesn't impact the board"
im not saying worse in a direct way, i mean more situational outcomes, i dont like the idea of the power increasing for all just because, well one class makes this broken stuff is ok just because this other has another broken stuff to answer, everything being broken to balance due to equaly high power is a terrible path to follow
Jandice Barov will be even more insane aswell, yikes.
This says everything you need to know about the power level of Wandmaker unless there will be many weak 1-cost spells in the next. That pool really isn't as awkward as you might think in a more tempo-based demon list. And it's not really realistic that they print many bad spells because they need to sell product. Sure, 1 or 2 classes will get 1 bad 1-cost spell, but that doesn't change much.
You forgot mage.
I counted 6 total 1-cost spells and none of them seem bad, either, but it's hard to say what kind of decks will be popular in the new expansion since most of the archetypes will be powerbombed into the trash with rotation and core changes.
Primordial Studies, Shooting Star, Snap Freeze, Font of Power, Devolving Missiles and Brain Freeze.
That said, I'm still hopeful for new stuff and look forward to trying out whatever they reveal for FitB. Maybe no-minion (spell) mage could be a thing again?! More support pls, kthx.
Blood Herald.
Well, at least Nitro will no longer be created by Wandmaker....
Why wouldn't it? Did they announce a nerf to it?
Ow, and shaman boys... Remember, lightning bolt is still around and its nature spell. And the new legendary has +3 nature SPD. If burn shaman is a thing, wandmaker will be bonkers there!
yep
What is that image from?
its from the deck recipe updates before blizzard changes it to 1 mana again, its from today
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/hearthstone/t/updated-free-decks-for-new-and-returning-players-barrens-expansion-cycle/55827
blizzard just copy pasted the decks from the coming patch and 2 mana nitro bust poison was there, when they realized changed it back to one mana but people was already spreading it.
if you look at the coments in the post you can see how people was already talking about it
Thanks