That's basically the essence of the desirability of Core set changes. Not having a group of cards that get thrown into every single deck of a class because the expansion cards can't measure up to the evergreen stuff.
Also, I made a specific comparison of one aspect of M:tg, not some general statement of the two games. For that matter, the whole allure of a digital card game is the possibility of RNG within mechanics. Beyond dice rolling and coin flipping, that's not very easy to accomplish in tabletop card games.
I was only mentioning specific archetypes, of which are lacking as a baseline, like almost all of them except Control but alot of the good cards for control decks are rotating out of standard. For all we know Shaman may get a ton of cards to add to current existing strategies after the core set is launched, but that's the problem and always has been for Shaman, and there is not much appeal to the core set for Shaman to want to start building a deck. Like I said, Team 5 will have to deliver in the next expansions to come otherwise Shaman is getting left in the dust once again and only OP when it gets strong expansion cards. Yippie.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I like Shaman but ever since HS's conception Shaman has sucked alot because of it's core set lacking so much with useless cards until they received some good expansion cards. Shaman's core set is an improvement, but not much, I just expected a little more out of Team 5.
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
I wouldn't say 'very unhappy' but I was holding onto some faint hope of seeing defile return and Warlock's core package looks pretty disappointing. Control Warlock is probably a large part of what hooked me into the game and it seems it is getting more of a discard/zoo set which is OK but I'm left hoping it gets some good support in the next expansion.
Overall it's less of a shake up than I had hoped for but I'm aware it's the first rotation and they may not want to take too many risks or chances with all the other changes they are putting together.
Mortal Coil, Hellfire, buffed Drain Soul AND Siphon Soul, Nether, Jaraxxus + the cards from the last 3 sets like the 4-cost corrupt card, the Soul package, Envoy Rustwix, Tickatus if you want to... You must be joking, the deck basically builds itself.
Defile is an awesome design, but it's an insanely powerful card and it shouldn't be in this core set for that reason alone.
On the other hand, I would have loved to see Tess or Espionage, but the highroll potential for Espionage is probably too much and they wanted to replace Edwin, so that's cool too.
At first glance the changes look great, the 2 main cards staying that stood out to me was backstab and shadowstep. I think a great deal of the community would've liked these 2 banished.
So no saps, no eviscerates, no backstabs, and no shadowstep? We might just as well delete the class as a whole while we're at it.
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
How is reducing the cost (from 3 to 2) nerfing the card? It may be as unplayable as ever, but how is it worse than before?
It no longer stacks so running 2 in your deck is counter productive. Unless it has a Wild Growth type of effect now where it draws a card if your already in Shadowform, which I doubt.
Not specifically a nerf though as there are positives and negatives to the change.
I wouldn't necessarily take for granted that Shadowform has lost its secondary effect. I know it was spelled out on the original card text, but they have removed a couple of lines of card text here and there, most notably on Jaraxxus (no more "destroy your hero and replace with . . . ")
SO maybe it's still a thing?
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Jaraxxus (+inbredtus but that's not core so it doesn't count here) means that if you want to play any form of reactive deck you either go warlock or go lose to warlock
Ysera's dream cards...you can see my comment on her page (I think it's the front one on the card's Page)
Felsoul jailer....fk that card
There may be a couple more but I can't think of them right now
There seem to be a number (or at least a couple at a glance) of cards that enable you to deal a large amount of damage directly to the opponent's face (such as the new Alextrasza, or Illidari thingamybob), - well, 8 damage, to be precise, though in some cases more - which I think is concerning, but time will tell, etc. Dealing such a large amount to face is admittedly a good finisher and my initial thoughts were "Ooh, I love these cards!". But in hindsight, I can then see that from the other side of the board, these are going to very quickly become frustrating, I think. The same way Ragnaros was disliked for a long time.
Thaaaaaaat said, there is still the fact that there are cards which did similar that exist and don't see much play (such as the give your hero +8 attack card for Demon Hunter). But I think the core difference with the Illidari card is that it has a huge body, also has rush, and then hits the opponent's face after clearing a Taunt minion for you. So I think this is much more powerful.
There seem to be a number (or at least a couple at a glance) of cards that enable you to deal a large amount of damage directly to the opponent's face (such as the new Alextrasza, or Illidari thingamybob), - well, 8 damage, to be precise, though in some cases more - which I think is concerning, but time will tell, etc. Dealing such a large amount to face is admittedly a good finisher and my initial thoughts were "Ooh, I love these cards!". But in hindsight, I can then see that from the other side of the board, these are going to very quickly become frustrating, I think. The same way Ragnaros was disliked for a long time.
Thaaaaaaat said, there is still the fact that there are cards which did similar that exist and don't see much play (such as the give your hero +8 attack card for Demon Hunter). But I think the core difference with the Illidari card is that it has a huge body, also has rush, and then hits the opponent's face after clearing a Taunt minion for you. So I think this is much more powerful.
I remember reading a dev comment about replacing infinite value cards with better late game finishers, to give control decks a more old school "big game ending", rather than the grindy random parties we've had. I think you'll be happy about them if you liked classic control warrior :)
There seem to be a number (or at least a couple at a glance) of cards that enable you to deal a large amount of damage directly to the opponent's face (such as the new Alextrasza, or Illidari thingamybob), - well, 8 damage, to be precise, though in some cases more - which I think is concerning, but time will tell, etc. Dealing such a large amount to face is admittedly a good finisher and my initial thoughts were "Ooh, I love these cards!". But in hindsight, I can then see that from the other side of the board, these are going to very quickly become frustrating, I think. The same way Ragnaros was disliked for a long time.
Thaaaaaaat said, there is still the fact that there are cards which did similar that exist and don't see much play (such as the give your hero +8 attack card for Demon Hunter). But I think the core difference with the Illidari card is that it has a huge body, also has rush, and then hits the opponent's face after clearing a Taunt minion for you. So I think this is much more powerful.
I remember reading a dev comment about replacing infinite value cards with better late game finishers, to give control decks a more old school "big game ending", rather than the grindy random parties we've had. I think you'll be happy about them if you liked classic control warrior :)
Heh - well like I say, when I first saw the cards, I was "Woaaah! That's cool!". But it was only after considering the effect from the receiving end that I wasn't so sure. :-)
And I'm certainly trying to go into this new set with an open mind and giving it the benefit o the doubt. It's obviouslty the first time (well I guess since Naxx, and then the introduction of Standard, really) that we have had a full game shake-up and revamp. So I'm optimistic - if slightly hesitantly so...
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
How is going from 3 to 2 mana a nerf ? Am I missing something here ?
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
How is going from 3 to 2 mana a nerf ? Am I missing something here ?
Teeeechnically it's a nerf to Odd-Priest? Maybe? Nah, I can't even claim that one... XDDD
The main thing for me is that most classes lost their AOE spells. I'm not happy about that at the moment, but we'll see how things turn out with the new cards in Forged in the Barrens.
Adding 8-9 cost cards that do 8 damage to face isn't exactly busted. I think the mana reduction demon combined with the 8 mana card might be a problem, but as an 8 mana card I don't think it's all that busted.
I think the card probably having rush is kind of unnecessary, but uh, I dunno.
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
How is going from 3 to 2 mana a nerf ? Am I missing something here ?
Teeeechnically it's a nerf to Odd-Priest? Maybe? Nah, I can't even claim that one... XDDD
I think OP is upset that Shadowform doesn't stack anymore. (To deal 3 damage)
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
How is going from 3 to 2 mana a nerf ? Am I missing something here ?
Teeeechnically it's a nerf to Odd-Priest? Maybe? Nah, I can't even claim that one... XDDD
I think OP is upset that Shadowform doesn't stack anymore. (To deal 3 damage)
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
How is going from 3 to 2 mana a nerf ? Am I missing something here ?
Teeeechnically it's a nerf to Odd-Priest? Maybe? Nah, I can't even claim that one... XDDD
I think OP is upset that Shadowform doesn't stack anymore. (To deal 3 damage)
But is it confirmed ?
Would also like to know this as its the first I’ve heard of it.
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I was only mentioning specific archetypes, of which are lacking as a baseline, like almost all of them except Control but alot of the good cards for control decks are rotating out of standard. For all we know Shaman may get a ton of cards to add to current existing strategies after the core set is launched, but that's the problem and always has been for Shaman, and there is not much appeal to the core set for Shaman to want to start building a deck. Like I said, Team 5 will have to deliver in the next expansions to come otherwise Shaman is getting left in the dust once again and only OP when it gets strong expansion cards. Yippie.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I like Shaman but ever since HS's conception Shaman has sucked alot because of it's core set lacking so much with useless cards until they received some good expansion cards. Shaman's core set is an improvement, but not much, I just expected a little more out of Team 5.
Shadowform.
They managed to fuck my favorite card up. Yes it has been unplayable for years, but why say you want to bring back Shadow Priest and nerf its symbolic card? What a bunch of morons.
Take a walk on the wild side...
I wouldn't say 'very unhappy' but I was holding onto some faint hope of seeing defile return and Warlock's core package looks pretty disappointing. Control Warlock is probably a large part of what hooked me into the game and it seems it is getting more of a discard/zoo set which is OK but I'm left hoping it gets some good support in the next expansion.
Overall it's less of a shake up than I had hoped for but I'm aware it's the first rotation and they may not want to take too many risks or chances with all the other changes they are putting together.
Mortal Coil, Hellfire, buffed Drain Soul AND Siphon Soul, Nether, Jaraxxus + the cards from the last 3 sets like the 4-cost corrupt card, the Soul package, Envoy Rustwix, Tickatus if you want to... You must be joking, the deck basically builds itself.
Defile is an awesome design, but it's an insanely powerful card and it shouldn't be in this core set for that reason alone.
On the other hand, I would have loved to see Tess or Espionage, but the highroll potential for Espionage is probably too much and they wanted to replace Edwin, so that's cool too.
So no saps, no eviscerates, no backstabs, and no shadowstep? We might just as well delete the class as a whole while we're at it.
What if you have multiple minions and Inquisitor still goes face?
How is reducing the cost (from 3 to 2) nerfing the card? It may be as unplayable as ever, but how is it worse than before?
It no longer stacks so running 2 in your deck is counter productive. Unless it has a Wild Growth type of effect now where it draws a card if your already in Shadowform, which I doubt.
Not specifically a nerf though as there are positives and negatives to the change.
I wouldn't necessarily take for granted that Shadowform has lost its secondary effect. I know it was spelled out on the original card text, but they have removed a couple of lines of card text here and there, most notably on Jaraxxus (no more "destroy your hero and replace with . . . ")
SO maybe it's still a thing?
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
The only things I actually don't like are:
Jaraxxus (+inbredtus but that's not core so it doesn't count here) means that if you want to play any form of reactive deck you either go warlock or go lose to warlock
Ysera's dream cards...you can see my comment on her page (I think it's the front one on the card's Page)
Felsoul jailer....fk that card
There may be a couple more but I can't think of them right now
There seem to be a number (or at least a couple at a glance) of cards that enable you to deal a large amount of damage directly to the opponent's face (such as the new Alextrasza, or Illidari thingamybob), - well, 8 damage, to be precise, though in some cases more - which I think is concerning, but time will tell, etc.
Dealing such a large amount to face is admittedly a good finisher and my initial thoughts were "Ooh, I love these cards!". But in hindsight, I can then see that from the other side of the board, these are going to very quickly become frustrating, I think. The same way Ragnaros was disliked for a long time.
Thaaaaaaat said, there is still the fact that there are cards which did similar that exist and don't see much play (such as the give your hero +8 attack card for Demon Hunter). But I think the core difference with the Illidari card is that it has a huge body, also has rush, and then hits the opponent's face after clearing a Taunt minion for you. So I think this is much more powerful.
I remember reading a dev comment about replacing infinite value cards with better late game finishers, to give control decks a more old school "big game ending", rather than the grindy random parties we've had. I think you'll be happy about them if you liked classic control warrior :)
Heh - well like I say, when I first saw the cards, I was "Woaaah! That's cool!". But it was only after considering the effect from the receiving end that I wasn't so sure. :-)
And I'm certainly trying to go into this new set with an open mind and giving it the benefit o the doubt. It's obviouslty the first time (well I guess since Naxx, and then the introduction of Standard, really) that we have had a full game shake-up and revamp. So I'm optimistic - if slightly hesitantly so...
How is going from 3 to 2 mana a nerf ? Am I missing something here ?
Teeeechnically it's a nerf to Odd-Priest? Maybe?
Nah, I can't even claim that one... XDDD
The main thing for me is that most classes lost their AOE spells. I'm not happy about that at the moment, but we'll see how things turn out with the new cards in Forged in the Barrens.
Adding 8-9 cost cards that do 8 damage to face isn't exactly busted. I think the mana reduction demon combined with the 8 mana card might be a problem, but as an 8 mana card I don't think it's all that busted.
I think the card probably having rush is kind of unnecessary, but uh, I dunno.
I think OP is upset that Shadowform doesn't stack anymore. (To deal 3 damage)
But is it confirmed ?
Would also like to know this as its the first I’ve heard of it.