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    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    I guess so.

    I'm just going to add that the reason I find inevitabilty to be toxic for HS is that there is NO way to interact with them that isn't limited to "just kill them lol".... this is the part where Dirty Rat and similar cards are mentioned and to that I say...sure...you can also randomly win or lose from those cards...because it feels fun,earned and interesting when you play them, flip a coin and either win or lose on the spot depending on the outcome of the cointoss.

    On the fatigue bit...that's exactly the point...you shouldn't mess with a core part of the gameplan of an archetype unless you want said archetype to burn in hell 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    Ok so

    1)Well fine, I could have worded that one better, still simply "choose another target" would be enough without going into Echo.
    There is quite a lot of wrong with the current version, infinite cards (as in: never end+never fatigue) are ALWAYS bad for HS, same with immense burst dmg (no way to stop burst from hand...why do you think charge rotated out completely?).

    2)The hate towards Ice Block only came from the fact that (as I said earlier) it was mostly played in the fUn decks that force a "you are under extreme pressure to end the game because you know your opponent WILL win whituot you being able to do anything about it if he doesn't die NOW" situation. Also that card can be played by turn 3, THIS one needs a quest to be completed...again, Idk how I'd change the requirement but I believe you are thinking about a "questline requirement" which is stupidly easy to complete...I'm NOT referring to that, it would obviously not be as easy/fast to complete. So from an aggro player's prospective you have the time so you should have killed him earlier (and also...it's not like it's a sure way to survive) and from a "I need to kill him or else his FuN aNd InTeRaCtIvE OTK WILL destroy me" prospective... this card is VERY unlikely to fit in a deck like that if the requirement isn't extremely simple to complete. Maybe Amara, Warden of Hope would have been a more accurate comparison: you build your deck around this defensive thing that isn't going to win you the game BUT it helps you with not losing said game.

    3)Yes it does...again, you are thinking that quest warlock will be built and played exactly the same, obviously that's not the case, you'll need more survivabilty and less self harm, instantly improving your chances vs aggressive decks (and AGAIN, depending on how it goes, it may be changed to be easier to complete, which could mean less self dmg, more healing or something like that). You are NOT going to FINISH the quest with a higher health than your opponent but (news flash) warlocks also have a GREAT deal of healing.
    It's more interactive for both players as BOTH feel the effect of your dmg so YOU have to consider your own health when trying to kill the opponent...and he has to do the same since all dmg he does to you will be reflected at him as well.

    As a (stupid) sidenote, the voiceline goes "All of Stormwind will feel MY pain" and guess what, in order for someone to feel YOUR pain...YOU have to feel it as well...not to mention that a warlock's whole shtick is sacrificing something from himself for the power to hurt someone else and well...you aren't sacrificing shit with the current questline.

    Not many recently I know, but still ANY card that delays fatigue by more than 4/5 cards is a mistake, as it lets you ignore fatigue (or at least...it WAS when fatigue was actually treated for what it is a.k.a. the unquestionably best "end of deck" feature ever created in ANY card game. Now you don't even see past half your deck most of the time)
    Now you may say "well doesn't this guy do the exact same?" well yes, and I still think it's a mistake...just slightly less than the current one since at least it's a symmetrical effect, so in "reactive" mirrors (the only place where it was ever useful) it's no longer an autowin but in OTHER matchups it gains SOME amount of utilty. Don't get me wrong...it STAYS just as much of a meme card as it always was, this change simply makes it less "polarizing".

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    As I already said, I don't agree with these takes:

    1) Who lied to you? the damage would ALWAYS be targeted, yes, it's not as easy to chain as Defile but it can be used to clean some boards (since it's cheap it can be used after another boardclear) AND get some face dmg in (also I made as a "quest mage card" so it benefits from spell dmg quite a lot), I also considered letting it target anything so you can blow up your minions as well if you need to increase the dmg (yea...thinking back at it..that's probably a decent idea)

    (Open the Waygate)
    2)It wouldn't be NEARLY as toxic as the current one, I'd place it into the ballpark of something like Ice Block a.k.a "it's only toxic if you are under extreme pressure to end the game because you know your opponent WILL win without you being able to do anything about it if he doesn't die NOW". The point of the card is exactly to give the player a second chance after knowing what the opponent has at his disposal, still the opponent ALSO knows it's been played so he can strategize on how to win in 2 different ways to "trick" you...WAY more interactive than the current version of this card.
    Your last point is why I said it probably needs a different requirement, one that isn't THAT big of a deckbuilding restriction.

    (The Demon Seed)
    3)Before I argue I'd like to remind you that I DID say "it may need to be easier/harder to complete".
    With this change it would only require you to change playstyle a bit and juggle self harm and healing a bit more (which warlock has TONS of either so not like it's that big of a problem),slowing down the quest a bit for more safety is exactly what can turn the aggro matchup around (to an extent). Also you are ignoring the fact that, if at ANY point after you played the reward, you happen to be higher health than your aggro opponent...they instalose (offset by the fact that it's VERY difficult to make happen) so...NO it would NOT be unplayable vs aggro...quite the opposite actually, I'd argue it may even be better... what ACTUALLY changes is that the card is now something both players can interact with AND it's less polarizing.

    You are underestimating the mayhem that can be caused by this new Archbishop Benedictus, you shut down higlander AND get some of their own synergy cards, you pollute the draw of faster decks (offset by the fact that you played a 7 mana do nothing vs something that wants to kill you by turn 6)...I'm a bit iffy about it as the games would drag on quite a lot but at least this time they aren't decided by the better Archivist Elysiana rolls.
    Also all this was meant to do is let him STAY a meme card, just taking away the toxic "I win fatigue" part

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)
    Quote from FortyDust >>

    The cards in question were already interesting, though. Why not just imagine new cards you personally find interesting instead of tinkering with existing ones?

     well that's what I said in the disclaimer:

    I personally don't find the design/playstyle of any of those cards interesting

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    I don't get the priest quest change but I appreciate the feedback

    <pre id="tw-target-text" class="tw-data-text tw-text-large XcVN5d tw-ta" dir="ltr" data-placeholder="Traduzione"> </pre>
    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    Ok bud

    1) I HIGHLY doubt anyone would ever ignore a Defile that ALSO does face dmg.

    2)that is not true...no one would play the SAME quest warlock that we have now but I believe you missed the "ALL dmg" part of the effect...take a second to think about the implications b4 you start dismissing it as "useless".

    3)just so you know... "no" is NOT an argument, anyway...you can read my reply to the first guy that responded if you want a decent breakdown on why it wouldn't be either useless nor broken.

    4)Well I DID say it was the one change I was iffy about...still...it's a 7 mana do nothing, if you don't want to meme and you just want to tryhard BUT if you (while tryharding with whatever megafast deck you want) let the opponent play it for free then...you kinda deserve to get memed on...bottom right is always there anyway.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    Exept it's not even NEARLY as easy as you think, first of all you need to be confident you are able to kill your opponent in (max) 3 turns AFTER PLAYING A 5 MANA DO NOTHING (you can even up the cost if you really want to) or else you don't get it back in hand and bye bye timeloop, same goes if your opponent manages to stall for A SINGLE TURN more than you expect and then kill you...you got a second life but you aren't looping anyone.
    So this is a strong asset as it kind of forces your opponent to defend himself for a few turns (if you decide to just point face...which you don't have to) or just delay his lethal (aka, if you are defending instead of pointing face...you have a higher chance to survive). You are HEAVILY overestimating the potential to "break" this card...the only real problem to consider would be DEEP fatigue but by that point the turn limit is  more or less already near AND it is still interactable by not attaking or even healing the opponent (and that's assuming the mage wasn't forced to play it earlier)
    Sorry but no, I'd rather NOT keep the old "lol me powerdraw like idiot--> me play some stuff--->me win with the only counterplay is...being killed by the opponent before this step"

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Making some cards more interesting (standard AND wild)

    (please read here first)
    This is:
    1)My personal opinion, so I'd love to hear some feedback AND what other cards you'd change (with how and why if you can/want to).
    2)COMPLETELY UNRELATED to how strong they are.
    3)FAR from all the cards I'd change, I'm just listing the more interesting ideas.

    So (finally) here goes.

    As the title implies this post is a list of card changes aimed at making some cards a bit more interesting and fun for both players while keeping (or sometimes increasing) their power.

    becomes a 2 (or 3, Idk) mana spell that says "Deal 1 damage to an enemy, if it dies recast dealing +1 damage" (yes, it CAN go face, dealing 8 dmg if you kill the entire board with it,potentially even more)
    Not only does this change speak more to the flavour of "igniting something that escalates into a gingantic wildfire" but also stops it from going infinite and being a single minded "point face till it stops glowing" which I'd describe as a monumental improvement in terms of being fun for both players.

    Open the Waygate
    the requirement can stay the same (it may need to be changed though since the reward will fit a different playstyle). The reward, however, becomes Time Warp: still a 5 mana spell, now says "the next time you lose the game, turn back time instead". With "turn back time" meaning you discover the option to go back 1/2/3 (or more) turns. (turn counter still keeps going to avoid softlocks...yes, it does mean that if you die the turn after playing it you get it back in hand)
    The idea was to make it an actually cool and unique card instead of a boring "you have 20/30 mana and minions you play with the first 10/20 have charge" OTK machine...while also keeping the time manipulation flavour.

    The Demon Seed
    everything can stay the same (it may need to be easier/harder to complete) but the reward becomes "ALL damage you take is ALSO dealt to the opponent"
    Even without the "fk fatigue" part of this card (which is its only real glaring design flaw, the rest is a powerlevel issue) the card has shown its incredible power and uninteractiveness, this change would keep the flavour and remove some of the stupidly insane offensive power for some defence as well, it would also make it more interactive as BOTH players have ways to react and play around this effect (though you are obviously at a quite monstrous advantage)

    Archbishop Benedictus
    battlecry "each player shuffles a copy of their opponent's deck into their own"
    With this change it would go from a near useless (exept vs REAL grindy control decks, where it's an autowin) fatigue delay bomb into absolute fking chaos that DOES have some use (namely pollutes the draw of faster decks), YES it would make games way longer so I'm slightly more "iffy" about this one.

    (As a final note I REALLY wanted to say something about Seek Guidance but I couldn't find ANY way to make it actually interesting as opposed to a stupidly cheap "win the game")

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on For those who want Warlock Questline changed/reworked, how would you do it?

    easiest question ever:

    ALL dmg you take is ALSO dealt to the opponent 

    Posted in: General Chat
  • 0

    posted a message on Pure Control is dead and buried, nerfs wont change that

    Questlock is the definition of "ignore fatigue", if possible in an even more toxic way than the other cards I mentioned as it instasbeats anything that focuses on fatigue as a wincon (ik that's not its main problem in terms of balance as of right now, still that's  its problem in terms of design)

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Pure Control is dead and buried, nerfs wont change that

    I've seen numerous takes in this thread, but 1 time of argument that I couldn't stand is using early RoS meta as "proof" that fatigue games are frustrating so I'm simply here to remind people: THAT WAS AN EXEPTION DUE TO THE FACT THAT Archivist Elysiana (one of the biggest desing mistakes of this game, together with any card that allows to increase deck size by more than 4/5 cards) WAS THE ONLY REASON THE META WAS BAD AS THAT CARD ALLOWED GAMES TO IGNORE FATIGUE FORCING THE INFAMOUS 40 MINUTES SHITFESTS.

    As for an actual answer to the OP...
    I enjoy exactly the type of decks the OP described as "pure control", exausting my opponent of all of his resources is HANDS DOWN my favourite playstyle and (despite what some people here said) HS is basically the only game that allows such a playstyle to exist as:
    1)card design has (more or less, the current situation was the last straw for this) allowed such a thing to exist, unlike e.g. LoR where ALL lategame wincons are unreactable (to those that know what I'm talking about..you can't deny that Aurelion/Lissandra/Maokai/(sometimes)Nautilus's LvL up effects may as well be "the opponent surrenders"...and I could go on...similar concepts stand for MtG)
    2)fatigue is a unique mechanic...the only one that allows TRUE reactive decks to exist.

    In conclusion I feel that ignoring such an advantage is 1 of the biggest mistakes this game can make.

    (as a sidenote/conclusion...to whoever wrote "Learn to spell the word "philosophy" correctly and your argument will have more merit."...fk off, form is beyond meaningless and the only truly important part of a discussion is getting your arguments across in a clear and non offensive way)

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on No good control decks in expansion?
    Quote from Baba_Jagga >>
    Quote from TheMightyYogg >>

    If you enjoy control decks you can give wild format a try, there are always plenty of options there and value oriented decks to experiment with

     this. i really dont get why people stick to std. wild is so much more fun, lot of different decks, yeah ofc lot of aggro but with right deck it wont be big problem.

    renolock is still very strong deck and every expansion it gets more tools. different wincons (tick, big demons, nzoth(s), jaraxxus, now fatigue with quest. 

    reno/control mage is another good and fun deck, odd warrior also. 


    This is wrong on SO many LvLs it's absurd:

    First of all, while I only play wild and like the "idea" more than standard (I always found standard a lazy way to refuse to balance properly) and overall I have more fun playing wild, the notion that you have ANY way to play value decks in that sea of aggro/OTK/mill/infinite decks countering you is simply nonsensical

    Even I admit that there are a lot of problems and std. is likely in a healthier spot but I'll leave it at that to avoid derailing.

    Renolock gets further and further from being a control deck with every expantion since

    1)the [REDACTEDTUS] version is a mill deck, not a control deck, stop comparing it to actual decks that have to actually play the game in order to win

     2)the new quest can be considered a fusion of "almost an OTK" and "virtually infinite" due to its nature of being "unfatigueable" and the fact that it singlemindedly powerdraws to get its inevitabile wincon

    3)even the big demons/N'zoth versions are WAY more akin to (super) heavy midrange (like cubelock) since it only aims to survive its first few turns and then the absurd manacheating both defends you AND pressures the opponent (also jaraxxus can fit here too)

    The 1 right part of both these posts is odd Warrior and reno mage being control decks (though reno is often built as an OTK because fk fun)


    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Mutanus the Devourer

    DISCLAIMER: despite the hatred thrown in this post this card is very likely too slow to be realistically included in the refined versions of most decks (talking about the wild shitshow here, where OTKs and similar are almost as fast as aggro decks, standard MAY have a place for it but Idk enough about it anymore to make that call)


    And here I thought that Far Watch Post being printed meant that they had realized just how unfun,unearned,uninteresting and overall shitty it feels to both play AND play against discard style disruption. Honestly that card's effect (opponent's cards cost X more, up to 10) was the best attempt at non-toxic disruption I've seen from this game so far.

    But alas, here we go again with the good ol' cointoss where heads means:

    "gj you sniped the opponent's key combo piece or N'Zoth, the Corruptor like card so...gj you won (or basically won, to a point where it's up to YOU not to mess up regardeless of how the opponent plays)"

    and Tails means:

    "sucks to suck, you randomly hit a useless card, prepare to get OuTpLaYeD by whatever stupid unstoppable BS your opponent is playing because this card was your only hope for counterplay"

    That is SO much fun to have happen to you...just ask anyone that got his key cards randomly dirty ratted, I'm sure he'll agree.

    Anyways, it's not ALL horrendously awful I guess...technically this IS an odd costed disruption card, meaning that odd warrior FINALLY has SOME degree of counterplay vs any BS unreactable deck. Just ignore the fact that said "counterplay" is just as horrendously toxic to the game as the things it is countering and everything will look fine.


    Posted in: Mutanus the Devourer
  • 0

    posted a message on Wildfire
    Quote from Black369Ace >>

    So if I cast this beforeFrost Lich Jaina, would the buff still apply if she was cast afterwards? 

     it should...it did...now (since last patch) it's fking bugged


    Today I randomly found out that it's not a bug, it's 100% intended,the same goes for the (faulty) interaction between Daring Fire-Eater and Reckless Apprentice where the Hero Power should deal the +2 DMG from the Fire Eater to all the targets of Reckless Apprentice but instead it's only on the first one (even though there is NO true "First" seeing as deathrattles and stuff don't trigger inbetween the animations).

    I was initially disappointed but then I realized: this is completely in line with the direction they want the game to go, a.k.a. filling the game with "fk you, I win" cards with NO way to play reactive.  This deck likely seemed slightly too decent for a reactive deck so they gutted it (and honestly, it also had some half-decent offence so it wasn't even a completely reactive deck, making this decision even "stupider" ) 

    One day they will realize the glaring flaw of this logic, i.e. if everything is unreactable the game becomes "whoever draws his BS first is clearly the better player so he wins" ... which is expecially true when applied to HS since player influence during the opponent's turn is kept to a minimum.

    I hope such a day happens b4 the end times of this game so they have time to fix it because I really do love playing HS...and THAT'S the problem... I love PLAYING the game (which implies I also want the opponent to play since it's a 2 player game) while all the new cards head more and more towards  pseudo-exodia solitaries and well...if I wanted to play one I'd download Spider

    Posted in: Wildfire
  • 0

    posted a message on Wrath of Air..!

    I always found it... let's just say... uninspired that you never got to choose the totem, MAYBE the full "Baku effect" where you summon copies may be too much for totem synergy decks but I don't fully buy it.

    There COULD be 1 or 2 instances THROUGH THE GAME'S ENTIRE HISTORY where it could have been too strong, namely with the "if you have spell power" weapon and MAYBE in classic it COULD have been annoying but nothing that couldn't be solved with just the slightest bit of caution when designing/printing (legit 3) cards.

    Now what about justicar/Baku? Well it's actually simple and (imo) more fun and creative, they would let you summon upgraded totems, my ideas being:

    Taunt---> divine shield+taunt

    Healing---->heals 2 and/or also your face

    Spell power--->either+2 or some durabilty buff

    Trash...I mean 1/1---> 2/2 ?

    Now these, as they are, may range from useless to OP but they are just "unpolished" ideas meant to express a possible and easy fix for the worst HP in the game that doesn't involve the shi...strength totem

    Posted in: General Discussion
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