I'm finding the game to be nearly unplayable at the moment. You've read threads like this before, I try not to write them, or to complain for complaining sake, but I'm adding my voice in regards to this dogshit meta.
Evolve shaman is everything wrong with competitive, worthwhile HS. It combines to massive effect both extreme mana cheat, and RNG. Like two months ago Guardian Druid was nerfed, not because it was too strong, but because it was an unfun play experience when it Overgrowthed into Guardian Animals. Evolve Shaman is this exact experience made even worse by being given a tutor. At least when Druid drew poorly they would be left with a heavy brick of a hand and were quickly overwhelmed. Resulting in a normalized winrate.
Not the case with Shaman. I have experienced very few games that Knuckles doesn't come down on five. And then the mana cheating begins. Huge, uncontestable boards that must be dealt with while simultaneously dealing with the weapon. Some decks fair better then others vs this, but overall it's a tyrant of a deck that is choking out many other strategies and basically wasting my collection. Honest to goodness, there are so many interesting cards and potential decks out there.
Yeah, i really hate shaman players too, even when I've put sticky fingers to my deck (because from D5 and above is all just those dicks) i have like 50% against them. It really takes a lot of skill to vomit your hand on board and attack with weapon to make random shitty board.
Also nothing else feels so good like take those weapons twice in one game, when lucky on draw fingers and he is unlucky for mana cheating, but is very occasionally. Lot of the time they play weapon and some crap-making-craps minion in one turn and then you have to deal with board instead of playing one 5mana card.... Personally hope they nerf evolve shaman, so we could have some fun instead of facing army of idiots with same deck spamming emoticons when they're sure they are going to win feeling how good they are.
Btw as most of the time I could build that deck either, but i will never this go deep down.
Shaman is my favorite class, but I don't play evolve shaman because I don't find it very fun and I hate how annoying it can be. I refuse to be apart of that toxic spam. If I am being totally honest, I normally roast people who make threads like this. However, you got me beat here. I hate being the person to complain about something I can't control or the person to encourage this kind of behavior on forum sites, but not even I can disagree. It's being played A LOT up in legend during this meta and I would being lying if I said I wasn't getting pretty tired of it too.
Either way, good luck out there and keep fighting. Best thing you can do is adapt your deck the best you can and think three moves ahead. Don't let it get to you too much.
Exactly!! Yes its frustrating sometimes, but Stickyfingers levels the playing field. You could also try Warrior and Galakrond Warrior at that to beat Evolve shaman fairly consisitently. Armoring up to 30 gives enought time to clear the boards and draw Stickyfingers etc....
However, nerfs and buffs are good for the game and I too would like to see a mixup every month to keep the meta fresh. I grow tired of seeing the same decks over and over again.
How many shaman you face per 10 games to makes this games feel unplayable to you?
All shaman?
I remember my friend when I was a little kid feels soccer is unplayable for him because he can't score a single goal in some game, so he force the other teams to play without a goalie.. fun and simpler times..
Exactly!! Yes its frustrating sometimes, but Stickyfingers levels the playing field. You could also try Warrior and Galakrond Warrior at that to beat Evolve shaman fairly consisitently. Armoring up to 30 gives enought time to clear the boards and draw Stickyfingers etc....
However, nerfs and buffs are good for the game and I too would like to see a mixup every month to keep the meta fresh. I grow tired of seeing the same decks over and over again.
Why does everyone think, Warrior is good against Shaman? In the new Data Reaper Report, it's at best a 50/50 for Control and Bomb Warrior is behind....
Is insane how blizzard struggles to balance shaman, it only can be insanely broken, or insanely bad.
Both Totem shaman in standard and Even shaman in Wild have been fine archetypes which very few complain about, but yes, there have been many examples of the opposite.
Madness at the Darkmoon Faire has been a shitshow of an expansion. None of the big cool new things (the Old Gods coming back!) have made a big impact on the meta, and we've just been flooded with slightly modified Scholomance era Aggro decks. I think the most disappointing thing is it seems like Blizzard has reverted to their old "One set of balance changes halfway through an expansion cycle" philosophy, as opposed to the rapid and constant changes they've been doing for a few sets now. I really don't understand how it's not clear that Evolve Shaman is a problem that needs fixing.
Honestly, I'm sort of annoyed at how good everything about Scholomance was. If it'd been a less fun expansion I probably would've finally pulled the trigger on leaving the game, since I've not really enjoyed a meta since like... Saviors of Uldum? It seems like every time there's a long enough streak of bad expansions they drop one really good one that gets me hooked for a few more years - I was at the verge of leaving right before Un'Goro, and then that brought about the most fun meta since like... vanilla. I just wish they could consistently do things that good, instead of feeding us crap like Darkmoon Faire and Ashes of Outland most of the time.
It's just a problem with the overall design philosophy of Hearthstone these days. The power level of cards and decks is just too high, and this makes balance essentially impossible. The best thing about rotation is that it allows power creep, because it allows the power level to be reset with the rotation shifts. But Hearthstone has forgotten to actually include the power level resets, and everything has just become bullshit. The power level has just gotten too high for the game to be truly fun anymore.
If people struggle against a certain deck i suggest to watch some content of Jarla. He is not my favorite player but he can teach a lot about teching out tier 1 decks.
I am running 2x stickfingers in my priest deck. It is astonishing how few times they have made a difference. I might need to add 2x oozes if i really want to contest shaman.
I am running 2x stickfingers in my priest deck. It is astonishing how few times they have made a difference. I might need to add 2x oozes if i really want to contest shaman.
I've tried running the stickyfinger as well and I'm finding it a bit underwhelming. I mean, yes, ideally, they preload the weapon and then you yoink it, but realistically, they are going to equip weapon, drop 2x zero mana guys, maybe lightning bloom out something else, and swing in the same turn.
Now you have a board of stuff to deal with, and stealing the weapon doesn't really put you ahead...
Maybe the mini set will have some really nice control tools to help fight this nonsense and slow down the meta. Can I dream?
I am running 2x stickfingers in my priest deck. It is astonishing how few times they have made a difference. I might need to add 2x oozes if i really want to contest shaman.
As a priest player I've tried that one. 4 weapons removals. Doesn't work either. You enter a tempo trap. You will have to wait till the target audience is satisfied enough and the pack buying spree is over.
I expect Blizzard have their eye on the deck, since it does seem like a glaring problem, but logically they need to wait to see if players can calculate a (reasonable) way to reduce its power level through deck building and gameplay decisions over the next couple of weeks before rushing to nerf the deck. By reasonable I mean finding a number of lists that have a good matchup against evolve Shaman, not sticking double weapon tech in every deck.
Blizzard are quite well known for this approach. In the early days of Starcraft 2, the Terran Marauder spam build was destroying everything on ladder. Rather than nerf it immediately, they waited for new strategies to evolve and for players to become more proficient at dealing with it. The trend they saw develop over time was that the build maintained a high win rate in bronze, but the higher you looked up the ladder, the lower it’s win rate became. They correctly deduced that the Marauder wasn’t an overpowered unit, it was simply countered by getting better at the game.
Currently this doesn’t look to be the case with Evolve Shaman. It has the highest play rate AND win rate at high legend, so I suspect it will receive a nerf before the end of January.
You are not alone in hating this meta. It is awful. And it's not just shaman. Rogue is completely out of control too. The value they can create is ridiculous. And that stupid card that creates new combo cards is an endless resource generator. Including more copies of Edwin. It's a joke, and the balance team should be ashamed of themselves.
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I'm finding the game to be nearly unplayable at the moment. You've read threads like this before, I try not to write them, or to complain for complaining sake, but I'm adding my voice in regards to this dogshit meta.
Evolve shaman is everything wrong with competitive, worthwhile HS. It combines to massive effect both extreme mana cheat, and RNG. Like two months ago Guardian Druid was nerfed, not because it was too strong, but because it was an unfun play experience when it Overgrowthed into Guardian Animals. Evolve Shaman is this exact experience made even worse by being given a tutor. At least when Druid drew poorly they would be left with a heavy brick of a hand and were quickly overwhelmed. Resulting in a normalized winrate.
Not the case with Shaman. I have experienced very few games that Knuckles doesn't come down on five. And then the mana cheating begins. Huge, uncontestable boards that must be dealt with while simultaneously dealing with the weapon. Some decks fair better then others vs this, but overall it's a tyrant of a deck that is choking out many other strategies and basically wasting my collection. Honest to goodness, there are so many interesting cards and potential decks out there.
I for one am not enjoying this helpless feeling.
Yeah, i really hate shaman players too, even when I've put sticky fingers to my deck (because from D5 and above is all just those dicks) i have like 50% against them. It really takes a lot of skill to vomit your hand on board and attack with weapon to make random shitty board.
Also nothing else feels so good like take those weapons twice in one game, when lucky on draw fingers and he is unlucky for mana cheating, but is very occasionally. Lot of the time they play weapon and some crap-making-craps minion in one turn and then you have to deal with board instead of playing one 5mana card.... Personally hope they nerf evolve shaman, so we could have some fun instead of facing army of idiots with same deck spamming emoticons when they're sure they are going to win feeling how good they are.
Btw as most of the time I could build that deck either, but i will never this go deep down.
Shaman is my favorite class, but I don't play evolve shaman because I don't find it very fun and I hate how annoying it can be. I refuse to be apart of that toxic spam. If I am being totally honest, I normally roast people who make threads like this. However, you got me beat here. I hate being the person to complain about something I can't control or the person to encourage this kind of behavior on forum sites, but not even I can disagree. It's being played A LOT up in legend during this meta and I would being lying if I said I wasn't getting pretty tired of it too.
Either way, good luck out there and keep fighting. Best thing you can do is adapt your deck the best you can and think three moves ahead. Don't let it get to you too much.
Is this about the Standard or Wild?
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
BTW
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
What about the other three?
Exactly!! Yes its frustrating sometimes, but Stickyfingers levels the playing field. You could also try Warrior and Galakrond Warrior at that to beat Evolve shaman fairly consisitently. Armoring up to 30 gives enought time to clear the boards and draw Stickyfingers etc....
However, nerfs and buffs are good for the game and I too would like to see a mixup every month to keep the meta fresh. I grow tired of seeing the same decks over and over again.
How many shaman you face per 10 games to makes this games feel unplayable to you?
All shaman?
I remember my friend when I was a little kid feels soccer is unplayable for him because he can't score a single goal in some game, so he force the other teams to play without a goalie.. fun and simpler times..
Why does everyone think, Warrior is good against Shaman? In the new Data Reaper Report, it's at best a 50/50 for Control and Bomb Warrior is behind....
Agreed. Evolve Shaman is near unbeatable a lot of the time atm.
Is insane how blizzard struggles to balance shaman, it only can be insanely broken, or insanely bad.
Both Totem shaman in standard and Even shaman in Wild have been fine archetypes which very few complain about, but yes, there have been many examples of the opposite.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Madness at the Darkmoon Faire has been a shitshow of an expansion. None of the big cool new things (the Old Gods coming back!) have made a big impact on the meta, and we've just been flooded with slightly modified Scholomance era Aggro decks. I think the most disappointing thing is it seems like Blizzard has reverted to their old "One set of balance changes halfway through an expansion cycle" philosophy, as opposed to the rapid and constant changes they've been doing for a few sets now. I really don't understand how it's not clear that Evolve Shaman is a problem that needs fixing.
Honestly, I'm sort of annoyed at how good everything about Scholomance was. If it'd been a less fun expansion I probably would've finally pulled the trigger on leaving the game, since I've not really enjoyed a meta since like... Saviors of Uldum? It seems like every time there's a long enough streak of bad expansions they drop one really good one that gets me hooked for a few more years - I was at the verge of leaving right before Un'Goro, and then that brought about the most fun meta since like... vanilla. I just wish they could consistently do things that good, instead of feeding us crap like Darkmoon Faire and Ashes of Outland most of the time.
It's just a problem with the overall design philosophy of Hearthstone these days. The power level of cards and decks is just too high, and this makes balance essentially impossible. The best thing about rotation is that it allows power creep, because it allows the power level to be reset with the rotation shifts. But Hearthstone has forgotten to actually include the power level resets, and everything has just become bullshit. The power level has just gotten too high for the game to be truly fun anymore.
If people struggle against a certain deck i suggest to watch some content of Jarla. He is not my favorite player but he can teach a lot about teching out tier 1 decks.
I am running 2x stickfingers in my priest deck. It is astonishing how few times they have made a difference. I might need to add 2x oozes if i really want to contest shaman.
Galavant Animation
I've tried running the stickyfinger as well and I'm finding it a bit underwhelming. I mean, yes, ideally, they preload the weapon and then you yoink it, but realistically, they are going to equip weapon, drop 2x zero mana guys, maybe lightning bloom out something else, and swing in the same turn.
Now you have a board of stuff to deal with, and stealing the weapon doesn't really put you ahead...
Maybe the mini set will have some really nice control tools to help fight this nonsense and slow down the meta. Can I dream?
As a priest player I've tried that one. 4 weapons removals. Doesn't work either. You enter a tempo trap. You will have to wait till the target audience is satisfied enough and the pack buying spree is over.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
I expect Blizzard have their eye on the deck, since it does seem like a glaring problem, but logically they need to wait to see if players can calculate a (reasonable) way to reduce its power level through deck building and gameplay decisions over the next couple of weeks before rushing to nerf the deck. By reasonable I mean finding a number of lists that have a good matchup against evolve Shaman, not sticking double weapon tech in every deck.
Blizzard are quite well known for this approach. In the early days of Starcraft 2, the Terran Marauder spam build was destroying everything on ladder. Rather than nerf it immediately, they waited for new strategies to evolve and for players to become more proficient at dealing with it. The trend they saw develop over time was that the build maintained a high win rate in bronze, but the higher you looked up the ladder, the lower it’s win rate became. They correctly deduced that the Marauder wasn’t an overpowered unit, it was simply countered by getting better at the game.
Currently this doesn’t look to be the case with Evolve Shaman. It has the highest play rate AND win rate at high legend, so I suspect it will receive a nerf before the end of January.
You are not alone in hating this meta. It is awful. And it's not just shaman. Rogue is completely out of control too. The value they can create is ridiculous. And that stupid card that creates new combo cards is an endless resource generator. Including more copies of Edwin. It's a joke, and the balance team should be ashamed of themselves.