Some Magic players call Hearthstone simplistic and repetitive. I defend it but when I see all these Mages these days I think they have a point.
Fill your hand. Play Giant. Play Conjurer's Calling. Boom you're already forcing your opponent to move mountains (literally) to keep you from steamrolling him.
A deck this powerful that wins by repeating the same exact early game gimmick time after time needs to be addressed. Not sure if it's overpowered but it feels terrible to play against.
EDIT: Guys I'm not talking about the minion heavy, dragon, etc. Conjurer Mage. That is trash compared to this deck. HSReplay is calling it "Spell Mage". It shows it as Tier 3, but it's Tier 2 at least right now. The winrate is sub-50% due to it being diluted by a bunch of worse versions of the deck and because it's more skill intensive...and also because people were losing with it more during the experimental phase. It can get rushed down by aggro/tempo but has more tools to deal with it than "Dragon Mage" etc. and is very capable of stabilizing. It's very flexible. It can win against any deck and almost auto-wins when it draws the nuts.
I love the card, but agree that it's a bit too strong with Mountain Giant at the moment. I think it would still be good, but not so silly, without Twinspell. Alternatively, they could just chuck in a couple of crappy 12 mana minions in the next expansion, which would make it significantly worse without a direct nerf.
Feeling bad to play against hardly qualifies it as needing of a nerf. Neither is having only one or two deck strategies. The deck suffers hard against any form of early aggro so is easy to combat. And it's not exactly the first deck to play a repetitive early-game gimmick: Edwin VanCleef (Miracle decks), Mech Hunter, Tempo Mage, Northshire Cleric or Elemental + PW:Shield, etc etc...
I love the card, but agree that it's a bit too strong with Mountain Giant at the moment. I think it would still be good, but not so silly, without Twinspell. Alternatively, they could just chuck in a couple of crappy 12 mana minions in the next expansion, which would make it significantly worse without a direct nerf.
1.0.0.20
Yeah just one understatted 12-drop would probably do the trick but that's a ways off. This deck is about to be cancer.
Feeling bad to play against hardly qualifies it as needing of a nerf. Neither is having only one or two deck strategies.
Tell that to Quest Rogue, or pre-nerfed Malygos Druid or even pre-nerfed Shudderwock Shaman, which wasn't an oppresive deck in terms of winrate but in terms of frustration it caused
It's high time for all giants to move to HOF, being used in so many decks/archetypes all these years. Conjurer's isn't oppressive if you do it on a 5 mana Zilliax or at a 7 mana minion on turn 8.
Feeling bad to play against hardly qualifies it as needing of a nerf. Neither is having only one or two deck strategies. The deck suffers hard against any form of early aggro so is easy to combat. And it's not exactly the first deck to play a repetitive early-game gimmick: Edwin VanCleef (Miracle decks), Mech Hunter, Tempo Mage, Northshire Cleric or Elemental + PW:Shield, etc etc...
Sounds exactly like the complaints about Barnes....... But yet people defend this strat, but hammer Big Priest
A deck having a repetitive game pattern is not a reason to change it. That is how almost every Combo deck operates.
A reason to change it is if it's combos can be played so early in the game that the opponent cannot attempt to handle it.
And by the opponent I don't mean you and your specific deck you want to play, I mean any general opponent that would decide to play a class they wanted, and would realistically never be able to handle the situation due to lack of class and neutral options for it.
In other words, how early and regularly are you facing two Mountain Giants at once?
Don't know why you say 2 at once. You mean after the spell? When playing against this deck I see early Mountain Giant more often than not. Either they mulligan it or draw it with Arcane Intellect or Sandbinder. Then once they get that spell off it's a big problem. Some deck can deal with it better than others but I thing it should be enough to warp the meta pretty soon.
I'm not sure it's time to nerf it quite yet, but it's definately something to watch.
The issue is that Conjure mage is fully relying on a VERY slow meta thanks to warriors that can't even think of winning before fatigue. That creates a very powerful reasoning for being able to do nothing for so many turns on a deck with almost no spells. And warrior is all over the meta because of Rogue.
So without Rogue, faster decks that beat warrior become more common, which makes running a deck with almost no removal that relies on hoarding cards for a late game blast of minions a doomed idea. Anyone who've experienced handlock during an aggro meta knows that mountain giant is NOT a good card to keep during those situations.
So faster decks mean conjure will have to stop dedicating itself fully to abusing that gameplan in order to either be more aggressive or protect against aggression, which means they will be easier to fight even as a slower deck and less common.
Which is why 'control metas' are NOT healthy for a card game. A LOT of deck balance is in stopping greedy or abusive strategies by forcing you to soften your deck in order to fight against different types of attacks. In other words, aggro keeps control decks honest.
Blizzard has already proven willing to revisit a meta if there's further issues. So we don't HAVE to panic and go after mage right away. If they prove to be too much of a mess then we can get to dealing with them too. For now, let's let things actually sink in and see what happens.
Play agro, this deck have no damage spells and will be dead until it can pull out a giant unless he draws like a god
Wouldn't say that. WIth 1 giant in hand, a mage that goes second can play a giant on turn 3 thanks to Book of Specters. And even with just a giant in hand they can play one on turn 4 after playing one or two Firetree Witchdoctors which counter any early game pressure. And then the 8/8 on turn 4 HAS to be dealt with, unless you want to risk facing three 12-mana creatures on turn 5 (since Coin+Conjurer's Calling exists. And there you are, with nothing on board, facing a one-turn or at worst two-turn lethal. And what did the Mage need to do for that? Draw two cards. And this is the problem. As soon as the first Conjurer's Calling is played, players need to deal with the 7/8 and the 8/8 immediately, unless they want to die. Leaving one up is not a solution and putting up a big minion also results in a trade and another two 8/8s. And all this is a general situation, not godly draw. The card itself is alright, the existence of Mountain Giant (and Book of Specters) turn it into a nightmare.
Obviously, anything that can abuse Mana Cheating is powerful.
Equally obviously, Mana Cheating is the source of the problem.
Conjurer's Calling is perfectly fine, nothing more than a powerful card.
Yet, in the case of Giants, they are forced to do nothing for several turns...
This, Conjurer's calling is a great card and perfectly balanced, and Mountain Giant is generally fine too, but the interaction between the two of them makes for a very busted combo. It sets the bar insanely high for what midrange and late game decks can exist.
Two giants is a problem. Two Grave Horrors is a MUCH bigger problem. If they get a Grave Horror off that first early Conj they can stabilize against aggro.
The combo doesn't always go down super early but it's really powerful in the midgame too. Early is bad, but in the midgame they might be able to cast it twice or cast with Khadgar. There aren't a lot of answers to the big Khadgar boards just like there aren't many answers to Nomi.
They don't just draw the combo cards. They can tutor Giant with Sandbinder. They can generate Conj with Cyclone. It's a really powerful deck with lots of options.
Some Magic players call Hearthstone simplistic and repetitive. I defend it but when I see all these Mages these days I think they have a point.
Fill your hand. Play Giant. Play Conjurer's Calling. Boom you're already forcing your opponent to move mountains (literally) to keep you from steamrolling him.
A deck this powerful that wins by repeating the same exact early game gimmick time after time needs to be addressed. Not sure if it's overpowered but it feels terrible to play against.
EDIT: Guys I'm not talking about the minion heavy, dragon, etc. Conjurer Mage. That is trash compared to this deck. HSReplay is calling it "Spell Mage". It shows it as Tier 3, but it's Tier 2 at least right now. The winrate is sub-50% due to it being diluted by a bunch of worse versions of the deck and because it's more skill intensive...and also because people were losing with it more during the experimental phase. It can get rushed down by aggro/tempo but has more tools to deal with it than "Dragon Mage" etc. and is very capable of stabilizing. It's very flexible. It can win against any deck and almost auto-wins when it draws the nuts.
I love the card, but agree that it's a bit too strong with Mountain Giant at the moment. I think it would still be good, but not so silly, without Twinspell. Alternatively, they could just chuck in a couple of crappy 12 mana minions in the next expansion, which would make it significantly worse without a direct nerf.
Play agro, this deck have no damage spells and will be dead until it can pull out a giant unless he draws like a god
--Alfi--
Feeling bad to play against hardly qualifies it as needing of a nerf. Neither is having only one or two deck strategies.
The deck suffers hard against any form of early aggro so is easy to combat.
And it's not exactly the first deck to play a repetitive early-game gimmick:
Edwin VanCleef (Miracle decks), Mech Hunter, Tempo Mage, Northshire Cleric or Elemental + PW:Shield, etc etc...
Obviously, anything that can abuse Mana Cheating is powerful.
Equally obviously, Mana Cheating is the source of the problem.
Conjurer's Calling is perfectly fine, nothing more than a powerful card.
Yet, in the case of Giants, they are forced to do nothing for several turns...
Inb4 Mountain Giant is moved to HOF.
Yeah just one understatted 12-drop would probably do the trick but that's a ways off. This deck is about to be cancer.
Tell that to Quest Rogue, or pre-nerfed Malygos Druid or even pre-nerfed Shudderwock Shaman, which wasn't an oppresive deck in terms of winrate but in terms of frustration it caused
It's high time for all giants to move to HOF, being used in so many decks/archetypes all these years. Conjurer's isn't oppressive if you do it on a 5 mana Zilliax or at a 7 mana minion on turn 8.
4mana, or remove twinspell. If Give twinspell magictrick or powercreation.
Sounds exactly like the complaints about Barnes....... But yet people defend this strat, but hammer Big Priest
Don't know why you say 2 at once. You mean after the spell? When playing against this deck I see early Mountain Giant more often than not. Either they mulligan it or draw it with Arcane Intellect or Sandbinder. Then once they get that spell off it's a big problem. Some deck can deal with it better than others but I thing it should be enough to warp the meta pretty soon.
Nerf all cards in the whole game. God, these threads...
Det är bättre med en fågel i hand, än tiger i träd!
I'm not sure it's time to nerf it quite yet, but it's definately something to watch.
The issue is that Conjure mage is fully relying on a VERY slow meta thanks to warriors that can't even think of winning before fatigue. That creates a very powerful reasoning for being able to do nothing for so many turns on a deck with almost no spells. And warrior is all over the meta because of Rogue.
So without Rogue, faster decks that beat warrior become more common, which makes running a deck with almost no removal that relies on hoarding cards for a late game blast of minions a doomed idea. Anyone who've experienced handlock during an aggro meta knows that mountain giant is NOT a good card to keep during those situations.
So faster decks mean conjure will have to stop dedicating itself fully to abusing that gameplan in order to either be more aggressive or protect against aggression, which means they will be easier to fight even as a slower deck and less common.
Which is why 'control metas' are NOT healthy for a card game. A LOT of deck balance is in stopping greedy or abusive strategies by forcing you to soften your deck in order to fight against different types of attacks. In other words, aggro keeps control decks honest.
Blizzard has already proven willing to revisit a meta if there's further issues. So we don't HAVE to panic and go after mage right away. If they prove to be too much of a mess then we can get to dealing with them too. For now, let's let things actually sink in and see what happens.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Every time I look in the forums and see "Nerf this" threads, I know the world is still spinning. Keep up the good work.
Wouldn't say that. WIth 1 giant in hand, a mage that goes second can play a giant on turn 3 thanks to Book of Specters. And even with just a giant in hand they can play one on turn 4 after playing one or two Firetree Witchdoctors which counter any early game pressure. And then the 8/8 on turn 4 HAS to be dealt with, unless you want to risk facing three 12-mana creatures on turn 5 (since Coin+Conjurer's Calling exists. And there you are, with nothing on board, facing a one-turn or at worst two-turn lethal. And what did the Mage need to do for that? Draw two cards. And this is the problem. As soon as the first Conjurer's Calling is played, players need to deal with the 7/8 and the 8/8 immediately, unless they want to die. Leaving one up is not a solution and putting up a big minion also results in a trade and another two 8/8s. And all this is a general situation, not godly draw. The card itself is alright, the existence of Mountain Giant (and Book of Specters) turn it into a nightmare.
This, Conjurer's calling is a great card and perfectly balanced, and Mountain Giant is generally fine too, but the interaction between the two of them makes for a very busted combo. It sets the bar insanely high for what midrange and late game decks can exist.
Two giants is a problem. Two Grave Horrors is a MUCH bigger problem. If they get a Grave Horror off that first early Conj they can stabilize against aggro.
The combo doesn't always go down super early but it's really powerful in the midgame too. Early is bad, but in the midgame they might be able to cast it twice or cast with Khadgar. There aren't a lot of answers to the big Khadgar boards just like there aren't many answers to Nomi.
They don't just draw the combo cards. They can tutor Giant with Sandbinder. They can generate Conj with Cyclone. It's a really powerful deck with lots of options.
There is already a thread for this kind of stuff, here is the way my friend => https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/212005-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty
newbs already crying for new nerfs. this ppl are cancer. disgusting