This is purely a hypothetical wonder - not a request for change or complaint about how the system currently works.
There are often discussions and complaints about being roped by other players, the rope not giving the proper time, or the rope seeming to never end for the opponent etc.
Which got to me to wondering - what if there was no rope? I don't mean a never ending turn (that would suck / be heavily abused). What I mean is, imagine if you were never given a warning about how much time you had left on your turn. Would you see players desperately finishing their turns as quickly as possible? Do you think it would speed up games? players would have to be very aware of not spending too much time in "Analysis Parallysis" (where you take so long to decide what your options are, that you end up doing nothing because you run out of time).
Obviously this wouldn't stop "ropers" - petulant players will still wait out the whole turn. But it would actually cause them a small problem - since they don't know when the turn is going to end, then it is likely they will trigger the end button automatically. This means that the next turn is shorter, forcing them to have to actually do something quickly next turn.
Also, do you think it would encourage a more aggressive style of play over more control / combo oriented decks? In order to safeguard themselves against the invisible time keeper? Or would players become more accustomed to getting their turns going quickly as soon as they can?
Sure - I can imagine they would use the timers on deck trackers etc. But there would probably be loads that didnt - mobile users (iphone) for example. Of course people could still use a watch or something, but setting the timer off every turn, etc could quickly become an annoyance etc.
I don't know, I generally don't mind too much. The only thing that annoys me are players who play their cards very quickly and then still wait out the turn until the rope is burned up. There could be a feature where your turn automatically is ended when you used up all the mana or have nothing else to play. Though that would not work with 0 mana cards that people could just keep in their hands to rope anyway.
I think it's very important for players to know when their turn is almost done. Otherwise crucial turns that require a lot of thought will just become even more stressful and players will feel really really reeeaaally bad when they've finally figured out the best option only for their turn to end at that exact moment. The rope is essential to prevent these situations from happening by basically saying 'Hey you might still want to think some more but you have to act soon!'.
Not having any indication of when your turn will end is a terrible idea. Obfuscating information this important would be terrible game design and would not benefit the game in any way.
The reason it seems the opponent's rope never ends is because there's a delay between when the card is played and when the opponent sees it happening, while your opponent's turn timer starts on your side as soon as you hit the end turn button. So while it seems like his turn should be over by now, he actually still has a few seconds left. Try playing with a friend with volume only on his side and you'll see what I mean.
I know you said this isn't what you wanted to convey with this post, but I wouldn't mind a mode without time limits, but only in friendly matches and only if both players agree. Would also help during reveal streams, as they can talk about cards without worrying about the timer.
It wouldn't work because they would just play out their turn quickly but refuse to press the end turn button. That's what most deliberate ropers do anyway - they finish playing their turn in the first 15 seconds and then just sit there and wait for the turn to end. Nobody waits for the rope to appear before playing their turn.
I know you said this isn't what you wanted to convey with this post, but I wouldn't mind a mode without time limits, but only in friendly matches and only if both players agree. Would also help during reveal streams, as they can talk about cards without worrying about the timer.
Oh, agreed - I have previously supported the idea of a no-timer friendly mode. My own personal desire for a mode such as that was based around the fact that it is hard to teach my kids about how best to play turns when the time limit is breathing down your neck. My daughter loves this game, but struggles with some of the concepts such as when to remove minions / go face etc. I often have to try and recap for her later down the line.
There are AI modes that have no timer (like the dungeons etc), so there is a precedent for it. And if it's a friendly, you're likely to know the opponent, which makes a huge difference to the emotion of a game.
Not to copy MTGA to much, but i'd prefer 3 times rope is "game-over" quite a bit. This would work with an ingame timer above the endbutton like with trackers already do now, so players need to watch the timers themselves. It's more like with chess, you just need to watch and hit the clock yourself or go bust.
Obviously this wouldn't stop "ropers" - petulant players will still wait out the whole turn. But it would actually cause them a small problem - since they don't know when the turn is going to end, then it is likely they will trigger the end button automatically. This means that the next turn is shorter, forcing them to have to actually do something quickly next turn.
Firstly, the idea in general, horrible idea. You would have an extremely hard time trying to find a single game which has timed mechanics, that doesn't offer a warning to the player telling them the mechanic is about to end. Removing this warning would cause massive backlash for Blizzard.
It is nonsensical, Blizzard were not required to add the Rope in the first place, they had no turn timer at first, and when they decide to limit turn timer, they obviously added the Rope, but this could be any other warning for the player, the important aspect was giving the information to players. You always want to provide as much information to the players as possible so they can use their best judgement, a decision to actively force players into making decision with less information is just absurd.
If you want players to do the best decisions, you provide them the best information possible. Even if that information is just the amount of time they have left for their turn. It allows them to decide what kind of play they can do at that point.
As for the part I quoted, this is just lack of information. When you let the turn end without clicking End Turn, your next turn will start with the Rope present, but that means roughly 10 seconds for you to take action. If you play any card in those 10 seconds, the Rope is no longer active, you are given the rest of the turn as normal. That would mean, for Ropers, they would just play a card and let the turn End on it's own, the following turn they would play in the first 10 seconds, and let the turn end alone again.
Essentially, it wouldn't affect Ropers in any way, but it would heavily impact all other players. It is astounding, I don't want to be rude, but his is likely one of the worst ideas I've read here.
Seems negative.... You're aware this is a "what if...?" hypothetical, not a suggestion for a change to the game, right?
I must admit, I am not bothered by ropers, but I barely ever rope myself (only if tons of animations force me to). Either I use the time to think about future turns, if needed or I just read something or do whatever.
Nobody waits for the rope to appear before playing their turn.
Streamers do this almost all the time. It's how they play - they spend ages talking about the turn or uhmming and ahhing, and then play the turn when the rope is about halfway gone. It's one of the reasons that Savjz used to miss the end of his turn constantly.
If that was the case most deck trackers would include turn timers in them, back in the day when blizzard hadn't implemented a number of cards in your hand feature deck trackers had them, i think it would be the same for turn timers
Seems negative.... You're aware this is a "what if...?" hypothetical, not a suggestion for a change to the game, right?
Not negative, just pointing out the flaws in your hypothesis. I called it one of the worst ideas I've seen because the outcome of the idea would be one of the worst problems. It is not being negative, just qualifying the outcome of the proposition.
Ok - "one of the worst ideas I've seen" comes across a little negative in fairness. ^_^ I'd have to disagree there. I've seen a lot worse than this. There's even a thread about actually wanting to punish players who leave the game early, right now! Lol!
As for the part I quoted, this is just lack of information. When you let the turn end without clicking End Turn, your next turn will start with the Rope present, but that means roughly 10 seconds for you to take action. If you play any card in those 10 seconds, the Rope is no longer active, you are given the rest of the turn as normal. That would mean, for Ropers, they would just play a card and let the turn End on it's own, the following turn they would play in the first 10 seconds, and let the turn end alone again.
That would require the player to actually have a card. In the case of most (not all) ropers, it happens usually near the end when the player is out of options. Sure, they could just play the card in their hand, but if that's not possible (say, with a flanking strike or similar) then they would have to accept the shorter rope time. In which case it succeeds in dealing with the problem.
In any case, ropers are but a small subset of the discussion here. The real point is in musing over how the game would change to accommodate if this was the case.
In particular nobody claimed it was a "good idea" to remove the rope. That's a misunderstanding of the conversation. The actual discussion was with regards to what the game would be like if there was no rope. Instead of getting hung up on the idea as to whether removing it is a good or bad idea (it's neither in this case), focus on the game itself. This is a hypothetical situation, not a suggestion to change the game for the better or worse.
Think of it like asking a question such as: "What if humans could fly? How would that change the way humans live?"
It requires using some imagination to consider how the Hearthstone game would change if a core proponent of it was altered.
I believe knowing how long is your turn and when it is about to end is vital for a game like hearthstone although it is abused a lot sadly. However, there could be a slight modification on this system. They could add timer pool for each player for about 60 or 120 seconds. In each player's turn a counter starts reducing this time pool. When they finish their turn this counter stops. When they consume all of their pool each turn will last for 10 or 15 seconds from that point on. Similiar to what happens to a chess game.
In this way, rope abusers won't be able to act like tards for long.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is purely a hypothetical wonder - not a request for change or complaint about how the system currently works.
There are often discussions and complaints about being roped by other players, the rope not giving the proper time, or the rope seeming to never end for the opponent etc.
Which got to me to wondering - what if there was no rope? I don't mean a never ending turn (that would suck / be heavily abused). What I mean is, imagine if you were never given a warning about how much time you had left on your turn. Would you see players desperately finishing their turns as quickly as possible? Do you think it would speed up games?
players would have to be very aware of not spending too much time in "Analysis Parallysis" (where you take so long to decide what your options are, that you end up doing nothing because you run out of time).
Obviously this wouldn't stop "ropers" - petulant players will still wait out the whole turn. But it would actually cause them a small problem - since they don't know when the turn is going to end, then it is likely they will trigger the end button automatically. This means that the next turn is shorter, forcing them to have to actually do something quickly next turn.
Also, do you think it would encourage a more aggressive style of play over more control / combo oriented decks? In order to safeguard themselves against the invisible time keeper? Or would players become more accustomed to getting their turns going quickly as soon as they can?
An interesting thought for the day. :-)
Most people will use their own timers thrn.
I think it would work, there would definitely be less ropers and the players would be forced to pay attention to when their turn starts :D
Sure - I can imagine they would use the timers on deck trackers etc. But there would probably be loads that didnt - mobile users (iphone) for example.
Of course people could still use a watch or something, but setting the timer off every turn, etc could quickly become an annoyance etc.
I don't know, I generally don't mind too much. The only thing that annoys me are players who play their cards very quickly and then still wait out the turn until the rope is burned up. There could be a feature where your turn automatically is ended when you used up all the mana or have nothing else to play. Though that would not work with 0 mana cards that people could just keep in their hands to rope anyway.
Maybe people would finally play a bit faster - Hearthstone isn't rocket science and People like LifeCoach that use a whole turn is annoying.
I think it's very important for players to know when their turn is almost done. Otherwise crucial turns that require a lot of thought will just become even more stressful and players will feel really really reeeaaally bad when they've finally figured out the best option only for their turn to end at that exact moment. The rope is essential to prevent these situations from happening by basically saying 'Hey you might still want to think some more but you have to act soon!'.
Not having any indication of when your turn will end is a terrible idea. Obfuscating information this important would be terrible game design and would not benefit the game in any way.
The reason it seems the opponent's rope never ends is because there's a delay between when the card is played and when the opponent sees it happening, while your opponent's turn timer starts on your side as soon as you hit the end turn button. So while it seems like his turn should be over by now, he actually still has a few seconds left. Try playing with a friend with volume only on his side and you'll see what I mean.
I know you said this isn't what you wanted to convey with this post, but I wouldn't mind a mode without time limits, but only in friendly matches and only if both players agree. Would also help during reveal streams, as they can talk about cards without worrying about the timer.
It wouldn't work because they would just play out their turn quickly but refuse to press the end turn button. That's what most deliberate ropers do anyway - they finish playing their turn in the first 15 seconds and then just sit there and wait for the turn to end. Nobody waits for the rope to appear before playing their turn.
I'd quit the game because then it would be pressure > fun.
I am usually fast and know in advance what to do, but i regularly end up having to count about lethal or optimal damage, and i am bad under pressure.
Oh, agreed - I have previously supported the idea of a no-timer friendly mode. My own personal desire for a mode such as that was based around the fact that it is hard to teach my kids about how best to play turns when the time limit is breathing down your neck. My daughter loves this game, but struggles with some of the concepts such as when to remove minions / go face etc. I often have to try and recap for her later down the line.
There are AI modes that have no timer (like the dungeons etc), so there is a precedent for it. And if it's a friendly, you're likely to know the opponent, which makes a huge difference to the emotion of a game.
Not to copy MTGA to much, but i'd prefer 3 times rope is "game-over" quite a bit. This would work with an ingame timer above the endbutton like with trackers already do now, so players need to watch the timers themselves. It's more like with chess, you just need to watch and hit the clock yourself or go bust.
Seems negative....
You're aware this is a "what if...?" hypothetical, not a suggestion for a change to the game, right?
I must admit, I am not bothered by ropers, but I barely ever rope myself (only if tons of animations force me to).
Either I use the time to think about future turns, if needed or I just read something or do whatever.
Streamers do this almost all the time. It's how they play - they spend ages talking about the turn or uhmming and ahhing, and then play the turn when the rope is about halfway gone.
It's one of the reasons that Savjz used to miss the end of his turn constantly.
If that was the case most deck trackers would include turn timers in them, back in the day when blizzard hadn't implemented a number of cards in your hand feature deck trackers had them, i think it would be the same for turn timers
Ok - "one of the worst ideas I've seen" comes across a little negative in fairness. ^_^
I'd have to disagree there. I've seen a lot worse than this. There's even a thread about actually wanting to punish players who leave the game early, right now! Lol!
That would require the player to actually have a card. In the case of most (not all) ropers, it happens usually near the end when the player is out of options. Sure, they could just play the card in their hand, but if that's not possible (say, with a flanking strike or similar) then they would have to accept the shorter rope time. In which case it succeeds in dealing with the problem.
In any case, ropers are but a small subset of the discussion here.
The real point is in musing over how the game would change to accommodate if this was the case.
In particular nobody claimed it was a "good idea" to remove the rope. That's a misunderstanding of the conversation. The actual discussion was with regards to what the game would be like if there was no rope.
Instead of getting hung up on the idea as to whether removing it is a good or bad idea (it's neither in this case), focus on the game itself. This is a hypothetical situation, not a suggestion to change the game for the better or worse.
Think of it like asking a question such as: "What if humans could fly? How would that change the way humans live?"
It requires using some imagination to consider how the Hearthstone game would change if a core proponent of it was altered.
I believe knowing how long is your turn and when it is about to end is vital for a game like hearthstone although it is abused a lot sadly. However, there could be a slight modification on this system. They could add timer pool for each player for about 60 or 120 seconds. In each player's turn a counter starts reducing this time pool. When they finish their turn this counter stops. When they consume all of their pool each turn will last for 10 or 15 seconds from that point on. Similiar to what happens to a chess game.
In this way, rope abusers won't be able to act like tards for long.
Believe in potential; the multiverse blesses some beings with extraordinary traits, with the potential to do—to be—great things.