Do you remember when the Patches the Pirate and 2x Southsea Captain package was in every god damned deck, whether it had anything to do with pirates or not?!
Oh, wait.. we're talking about fond memories.
Remember when The Caverns Below was actually good, y'know, before the two nerfs? I remember that pretty fondly. And yes, we can say it's good now, but that's only because of EleGiggle. I'd be fairly willing to lay down a fair bit of money, gold, dust or whatever that says if our favourite little inventor and his robots get nerfed, that deck goes away again.
I've said th folllowing and will keep saying it, the caverns below was never problematic, not even in its first iteration, the problem is that no minion with access to charge should cost less than 3 mana, if boar and southsea face pirate costed 3 mana instead of 1, caverns would have been a decent deck but never a problem deck and would've never gotten nerfed in the first place, so yeah, blame that one to the 1 mana chargers and to support my point blizzard did say that stonetusk was one problematic card that pushed a lot of designs back or even worse forced them to axe cards.
Also: do you remember when almost everyone in this forum thought The Caverns Below would be bad??
I'm not sure about the 3-cost Charge minions, but I can certainly agree that they contributed to the nerf. And eh, I *might* be willing to give them the first nerf. On 4 minions, it was preeeeetty easy to do. I packed TCB when the set dropped, so I was stoked. And it was pretty bananas on its first go. So when they nerfed it, I wasn't happy, but I did expect it. The second one was just stupid.
Remember the Holy Control Trinity? Control Priest,Control Warrior and Handlock? All of them were good against aggro. Handlock looses to CW because CW have better finishers in the matchup, Control Priest was losing against Handlock because 2 Lightbombs were not enough against endless waves of well-stated minions, and Control Warrior was losing to Priest because Priest was able to remove everything(with LoE comming out this matchup was even more hopeless for Warrior because of Entombs)
Remember when "original Hero card" Jaraxxus saw play and was force worth to be recognized with?
Remember when Combo decks were requiring a high skill level gap in order to be really good but were pretty shitty in bad players hand because there were way less stall cards?
I dont know about you, but in most of my druid decks i played at least one naturalize (Jade, Yogg, Token) - because Druid never cared what the opponent has, Druid has the better cards.
@Lephas there was a time before Jades, Yogg and Tokens and Naturalize sat on the shelf for a looooong time before finding a home (...in almost every deck). I'm no saying I have problem with the card - like Nourish I'm glad it's seeing play, it's just crazy to me that the meta changes so much.
I remember Deathlords, these guys were lit. One could reasonably go for fatigue game back then. Maybe next year when DK rotate out we can see this become an actual strategy aswell
In the end, you're still wrong because priest isn't seeing competitive play :P
Just look at HSReplay stats... every single class has an average of winrate between 48 and 51%, except priest at 43%. The winrate of the #8 class is closer to the #1 class than the #9 class. That's how bad priest is right now in an environment without the bans and lineup strategies of tournament play
Firstly of all, your statement "you're still wrong because priest isn't seeing competitive play" is completely bogus. Priest decks are present in almost all competitive tournaments since Witchwood. In HCT Summer, there were more priest archetypes than Mage and Warrior combined and more decks than Warrior. Recently in HCT Buenos Aires, there were 2 priest decks which is more than Mage, equals Shaman and is just shy of Warrior and Paladin.
Secondly I don't care whether, in tournaments there were 10 priest decks or 100, all I said that majority of those decks were and are Control Mindblast Priest. And most Control priest decks run Cabal Shadow Priest + Twilight Acolyte combo, some do run Mind Control but they are in a very small minority.
According to Hsreplay, Control priest has 52.34% average win rate, which is huge compared to other priest decks who are dwindling in low forties. One of core cards in Control Priest listed there is Cabal Shadow Priest, which, according to Hsreplay, has seen more play than Mecha'thun and Lyra the Sunshard in past 7 days in priest.
Finally, let me quote Vicious syndicate "Based on our observations, Control Priest might be the strongest Priest archetype out there [...]" and even they include Cabal Shadow Priest in there Control priest deck list.
TL;DR : Cabal Shadow Priest is one of the strongest priest cards right now and sees consistent play in highest tiered priest decks. Ladder or tournament viability of priest itself is completely irrelevant, because we are comparing it relatively not absolutely.
I never disputed that control priest is the best priest archetype, nor that cabal shadow priest is played in it. Only that the entire class is in the dumpster and being the best deck in a dead class is a poor consolation prize. Saying cabal shadow priest is a competitive card is like saying little Timmy is a competitive football player because he's the best football player from Timbuktu
Comparing things relatively in this context makes no sense. By this logic, Witching hour is not a competitive card because taunt druid is not as popular as Maly, Togwaggle, big and token druid right now. Inversely, you can say alchuani soulpriest is a competitive card because it sees more play in priest than chillwind yeti
As for priest appearances in tournaments, there's a reason I specified "in an environment without the bans and lineup strategies of tournament play". The only reason priest exists in tournaments is because you can ban druid and/or warrior. Is it truly good if it folds in the presence of one of the most popular decks right now?
Comparing things relatively in this context makes no sense. By this logic, Witching hour is not a competitive card because taunt druid is not as popular as Maly, Togwaggle, big and token druid right now. Inversely, you can say alchuani soulpriest is a competitive card because it sees more play in priest than chillwind yeti
Do you even know what the context is ?
My first comment was "Auchenai Soulpriest has lost its relevance but Cabal Shadow Prieststill sees play in every non meme priest deck.". My statement was about relevance of Cabal Shadow Priest in priest not in the whole meta itself. So it perfectly makes sense to compare Cabal Shadow Priest amongst other priest cards.
Your Yeti example makes no sense to me. Yes Auchenai Soulpriest sees more play than Chillwind Yeti but since neither of them sees any competitive play, neither of them is a competitive card.
So let's summarise, we know Cabal Shadow Priest sees competitive play and Auchenai Soulpriest doesn't. We also know that both of these cards were relevant in past but now only one of them is. Hence my statement
I never disputed that control priest is the best priest archetype, nor that cabal shadow priest is played in it. Only that the entire class is in the dumpster and being the best deck in a dead class is a poor consolation prize. Saying cabal shadow priest is a competitive card is like saying little Timmy is a competitive football player because he's the best football player from Timbuktu
If Timmy participates in competitive Football tournaments then yes he is a competitive Football player.
As for priest appearances in tournaments, there's a reason I specified "in an environment without the bans and lineup strategies of tournament play". The only reason priest exists in tournaments is because you can ban druid and/or warrior. Is it truly good if it folds in the presence of one of the most popular decks right now?
Of course Priest is the worst class right now, along with Mage, but it's not so bad that you can't climb ladder with it. Somebody made it to top 25 ladder last week with inner fire mech priest.
Remember when certain minions were considered unplayable because they had more than 7 attack?
I'm not sure about the 3-cost Charge minions, but I can certainly agree that they contributed to the nerf. And eh, I *might* be willing to give them the first nerf. On 4 minions, it was preeeeetty easy to do. I packed TCB when the set dropped, so I was stoked. And it was pretty bananas on its first go. So when they nerfed it, I wasn't happy, but I did expect it. The second one was just stupid.
But yeah, I remember when The Marsh Queen was going to overrun the meta, but The Caverns Below and Fire Plume's Heart were going to be "too slow".
A never-Legend Dad who keeps making rank 2 or 1, but then sliding.
Rumbling around Gurubashi Arena. Shirvallah is the best loa. Go Tigers!
Cabal Shadow Priest steal all eggs now
Remember the Holy Control Trinity? Control Priest,Control Warrior and Handlock? All of them were good against aggro. Handlock looses to CW because CW have better finishers in the matchup, Control Priest was losing against Handlock because 2 Lightbombs were not enough against endless waves of well-stated minions, and Control Warrior was losing to Priest because Priest was able to remove everything(with LoE comming out this matchup was even more hopeless for Warrior because of Entombs)
Remember when "original Hero card" Jaraxxus saw play and was force worth to be recognized with?
Remember when Combo decks were requiring a high skill level gap in order to be really good but were pretty shitty in bad players hand because there were way less stall cards?
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Did you bring some fish?
AHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I dont know about you, but in most of my druid decks i played at least one naturalize (Jade, Yogg, Token) - because Druid never cared what the opponent has, Druid has the better cards.
Lightspawn was a thing
And dragons had no purpose
@Lephas there was a time before Jades, Yogg and Tokens and Naturalize sat on the shelf for a looooong time before finding a home (...in almost every deck). I'm no saying I have problem with the card - like Nourish I'm glad it's seeing play, it's just crazy to me that the meta changes so much.
I remember the "I'm sorry" emote.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
2 mana blade flurry + oil = for insane face & aoe dmg
I remember Deathlords, these guys were lit. One could reasonably go for fatigue game back then. Maybe next year when DK rotate out we can see this become an actual strategy aswell
I never disputed that control priest is the best priest archetype, nor that cabal shadow priest is played in it. Only that the entire class is in the dumpster and being the best deck in a dead class is a poor consolation prize. Saying cabal shadow priest is a competitive card is like saying little Timmy is a competitive football player because he's the best football player from Timbuktu
Comparing things relatively in this context makes no sense. By this logic, Witching hour is not a competitive card because taunt druid is not as popular as Maly, Togwaggle, big and token druid right now. Inversely, you can say alchuani soulpriest is a competitive card because it sees more play in priest than chillwind yeti
As for priest appearances in tournaments, there's a reason I specified "in an environment without the bans and lineup strategies of tournament play". The only reason priest exists in tournaments is because you can ban druid and/or warrior. Is it truly good if it folds in the presence of one of the most popular decks right now?
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Do you even know what the context is ?
My first comment was "Auchenai Soulpriest has lost its relevance but Cabal Shadow Priest still sees play in every non meme priest deck.". My statement was about relevance of Cabal Shadow Priest in priest not in the whole meta itself. So it perfectly makes sense to compare Cabal Shadow Priest amongst other priest cards.
Witching Hour is a competitive card because it sees a fair amount of competitive play, both in tournaments and on ladder. Yes it's less than Malygos or King Toggwaggle but that doesn't matter. Similarly Cabal Shadow Priest sees competitive play both on ladder and in tournaments and Auchenai Soulpriest doesn't, so Cabal Shadow Priest is a competitive card but Auchenai Soulpriest isn't. Got it ?
Your Yeti example makes no sense to me. Yes Auchenai Soulpriest sees more play than Chillwind Yeti but since neither of them sees any competitive play, neither of them is a competitive card.
So let's summarise, we know Cabal Shadow Priest sees competitive play and Auchenai Soulpriest doesn't. We also know that both of these cards were relevant in past but now only one of them is. Hence my statement
is correct.
If Timmy participates in competitive Football tournaments then yes he is a competitive Football player.
Of course Priest is the worst class right now, along with Mage, but it's not so bad that you can't climb ladder with it. Somebody made it to top 25 ladder last week with inner fire mech priest.
Remember Finja, the Flying Star?
Remember playing good old CW and queing into freeze mage am are like, oh, I won!