First of all, let me clarify this one more time I really enjoy playing HS. I think it is a fun game. Different classes give game a dimesion which makes a big difference. Every class has its own identities, pluses and minuses. But I personally feel like Hearthstone is a very simple game, with not much complex strategies or deep thinking required to play the game. I hate people talk about HS like they talk about rocket science.
Almost evey game is won or lost based on mulligan and first four draws. There's not a whole lot of things to think about everytime it's your turn to play:
1. What cards do I have? 2. What cards are on the table? 3. What cards will my opponent have in the next turn? (Usually related to the mana pool of said turn)
There's really not a lot of necessary memorizing going on, since there can only be 2 cards of each in a deck (unless arena), and sometimes overthinking it can cost you games too (Games don't tend to often last longer than 10 turns, so everytime you play too careful because you're afraid your opponent might play a certain card next, or are afraid that that one secret is the one you fear most, you might end up giving your board control away out of fear for something that isn't there).
Decks are also pretty small, meaning shorter games usually.
So it's pretty easy to learn the game and to reach a certain 'skill cap' in my opinion. (Honestly when I watch people in invitationals or championships play there are never really any people that stick out for their cardplay skills, they all just play the smartest moves possible everytime it's their turn with the cards RNG handed them.)
This is not necessarily a bad thing. The fact that it is so simple might be what makes the game more fun perhaps for many people and easy to pick up and play during breaks or whenever.
I think it's much like snooker or golf, anyone can pick it up and play but takes years to actually master it. I reckon you're best off asking someone like StanCifka or Kolento. Ask them how many hours they practice and whether they think it's a hard game... I imagine I know what the answer is.
It has been said before, hs has become a mobile game and it's no where near it's previous self(vanilla hs), which was fairly simple game aswell but it had depth if you wanted to master it.Now is a simple fruit ninja game with cards that people play while they wait for the bus or go in toilet.
The only ones who believe the opposite are the bad players who are also tryhards and want feel good about themselves. They cry when others take their only ''achievement'' away from them and say bs like l2p and idiotic decks take skill a.Just last month i faced a jade druid who missed lethal not once but two turns in a row and a pirate warrior who went face when i had lethal on board and he could easily turn the tables by trading the 3/4 to my 8/3 giant.Do you want to know their ranks?430 legend and 700 something legend respectively.The fact that high legend ranks are filled with terrible players like those should make clear how low is the skill level required in this game.
Long story short,this game is fun joke and should be played like that.Don't ever expect it to become skill intensive again and play it for what it is.Otherwise migrate to my favourite card game of all times gwent :3.I play them both and have fun with both because i know what i seek from each of them.
No. The game actually has an extreme amount of depth to it regarding strategy. It's what seperates solid-good-exceptional players. I can't tell you how many times I have seen legend players make obvious misplays, but then I watch a player like Kolento find lethal with what looks like an impossible play. Sure people like to bring rng up when we talk about skill in HS, but I will rebuttal with the fact that skill effects that area of the game too.
The problem with hearthstone isn't it's simplicity, it's Blizzard. For them, if people aren't playing new cards, then they blame old cards rather than reevaluating how they are balancing new cards. Instead of creating good interesting cards for every class, they force gimmick archtypes on us. Throw in a bunch of unplayable neutral minions. Allow new cards that are broken to stay broken because "they will rotate someday and new cards are exciting". Ancient of Lore nerf is a perfect example of this mentality. A rather fair way to draw or heal is obliterated. Meanwhile UI isn't seens as a problem.
Blizzard can't balance hearthstone and the closest they ever got was with Un'goro. An expansion they admit that they were surprised to see balanced. Until they change how they develop this game, it is doomed to continue on the path it has always been on. An unfair, unfun mess that people keep coming back to out love for the big flashy animations, easy to use interface, new mechanics and occasional fun game they have during the excitement of a new expansion.
Didn't someone mentioned that Amnesiac counted 148 mistakes last DH? Despite the fact we see a lot of similar names on the top,( Muzzy won?) HS ladder can be simple (There have always been very easy to pilot decks out there, so I'm not surprised that you see misplays if this guy only plays such a deck til Legend.
Like u said it's not Rocket Sience ,but stil.. some players put more thought into their plays ( and deckbuilding ofc) and that has to be a factor,otherwise we wouldn't see the same names all the time.
It's time to face the hard truth - Hearthstone won't be anymore complex than this during its lifetime. I appreciate the Kazakus, build-a-beast, highlander decks and the new princes, but it hardly raises the complexity more than a bit. I stopped getting the importance of decision making vibe from it, even the arena is all about curvestone and a few game enders now. Besides, it's really expensive.
Yes and no. Hearthstone has a lot of deck that are very easy to play (examples: Secret Paladin, Aggro Druid)- and master, but it does also have decks that are fairly hard to play and near impossible to play 100% perfectly (examples: Patron Warrior, the new Fatigue Warrior)
(Honestly when I watch people in invitationals or championships play there are never really any people that stick out for their cardplay skills, they all just play the smartest moves possible everytime it's their turn with the cards RNG handed them.)
Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't making best possible moves considered playing with skill? They always have to think of every possible outcome and few turns ahead.
I wouldn't call Hearthstone an easy game. In general hearthstone has a medium difficulty, but difficulty gets decreased because new players netdeck easy decks. Certain decks don't require knowledge of the game. Decks like Pirate Warrior or Token Druid. You can learn those decks in a few hours and they will carry you to rank 15. But let those same players think of their own decks or let them play decks that are harder to master and they will struggle to pass even rank 20.
I think people overrate the skill aspect. When the best players and decks have a 50% win rate how can you say it's anything more than a coin-toss most of the time?
After meta after meta of broken, straightforward decks being top tier, you start ro realise that HS at its core is a game designed for bad players to feel good about themselves. Legend, which is for a lot of people ''the end-goal'' does not require skill, it requires grinding. I don't think anyone will argue it takes skill to go to legend with jade druid, aggro druid, pirate warrior, razakus priest etc.
That's the way Blizzard designed the game and probably wanted it to turn out.
The simplicity of HS is one of the main reasons for it gaining such a wide player base. Making it a very complex game would be a terrible decision that would turn most players off.
Laddering is kinda simple but it takes time to hit legend each season unless you find some adjustments to have a slight better win rate then most net decks.
Now you have a diffrent kind of story that is'nt easy in HS.
Tournaments, you can't just go there with the 5 best net decks, you need to adjust some decks to have the upper hand in the whole tournament. You need to train the decks how to play against other decks, you need to have the awareness of the unexecpted decks, cards.
Tournaments are there in all kind of shapes, not only for the pro's.
It's like poker but without betting. The "hard" part is knowing how to calculate your odds in RNG situations and use that knowledge to make better decisions.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
The game is as hard as you make it. If you find that this game is too easy, play a difficult deck. I'm currently playing exodia Mage in wild and it is a lot harder than most decks.
I think people overrate the skill aspect. When the best players and decks have a 50% win rate how can you say it's anything more than a coin-toss most of the time?
Because they get matched up against the best players and decks? This is basically called a working matchmaking system.
So at all levels of hearthstone the average winrate is 50%. This is not an indicator of game health this is an indicator that when one person wins a game the other person loses it. By the mere fact that the game is competitive the average winrate is 50%. But pros on ladder have a higher winrate than that when they play decks that are half decent. This shows that pros have skill that the average person does not have. The game rewards skill because it is a strategy game. And the simpler the rules of a strategy game the better. Games like othello and chess are incredibly old and still played in large numbers (you may call othello something else it has like 5 different names, including reversi as the other most common one). Hearthstone took card games and simplified them in an attempt to create lasting appeal. And it worked, millions of people, a number of which constantly rage about how bad the game is, play it regularly and have for almost four years.
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Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
People tend to confuse complexity and depth. You can have a really simple game that is really deep. Take Go for example. The game has what, like 6-7 rules, anyone can pick it up very quickly and start playing. You don't need to explain the rules for an hour like some board games. However, just to become a potent player, it takes years. That's the depth of the game: at each move, you have a ton of possibilities.
I am not saying HS is Go and it never will be, but there are decks that give you more depth than others. Exodia mage and Mill Rogue, for example, are hard decks to run and take a few games to grasp how to play it. In order to give players all types of experiences, they have created different levels of depths with the cards they release. I am not saying that the game is perfectly balanced, simple decks being too strong at the moment, but I believe that with their last two expansions, they are going in the right direction.
First of all, let me clarify this one more time I really enjoy playing HS. I think it is a fun game. Different classes give game a dimesion which makes a big difference. Every class has its own identities, pluses and minuses. But I personally feel like Hearthstone is a very simple game, with not much complex strategies or deep thinking required to play the game. I hate people talk about HS like they talk about rocket science.
Almost evey game is won or lost based on mulligan and first four draws. There's not a whole lot of things to think about everytime it's your turn to play:
1. What cards do I have?
2. What cards are on the table?
3. What cards will my opponent have in the next turn? (Usually related to the mana pool of said turn)
There's really not a lot of necessary memorizing going on, since there can only be 2 cards of each in a deck (unless arena), and sometimes overthinking it can cost you games too (Games don't tend to often last longer than 10 turns, so everytime you play too careful because you're afraid your opponent might play a certain card next, or are afraid that that one secret is the one you fear most, you might end up giving your board control away out of fear for something that isn't there).
Decks are also pretty small, meaning shorter games usually.
So it's pretty easy to learn the game and to reach a certain 'skill cap' in my opinion. (Honestly when I watch people in invitationals or championships play there are never really any people that stick out for their cardplay skills, they all just play the smartest moves possible everytime it's their turn with the cards RNG handed them.)
This is not necessarily a bad thing. The fact that it is so simple might be what makes the game more fun perhaps for many people and easy to pick up and play during breaks or whenever.
But what do you think?
Dead but dreaming
I think it's much like snooker or golf, anyone can pick it up and play but takes years to actually master it. I reckon you're best off asking someone like StanCifka or Kolento. Ask them how many hours they practice and whether they think it's a hard game... I imagine I know what the answer is.
It has been said before, hs has become a mobile game and it's no where near it's previous self(vanilla hs), which was fairly simple game aswell but it had depth if you wanted to master it.Now is a simple fruit ninja game with cards that people play while they wait for the bus or go in toilet.
The only ones who believe the opposite are the bad players who are also tryhards and want feel good about themselves. They cry when others take their only ''achievement'' away from them and say bs like l2p and idiotic decks take skill a.Just last month i faced a jade druid who missed lethal not once but two turns in a row and a pirate warrior who went face when i had lethal on board and he could easily turn the tables by trading the 3/4 to my 8/3 giant.Do you want to know their ranks?430 legend and 700 something legend respectively.The fact that high legend ranks are filled with terrible players like those should make clear how low is the skill level required in this game.
Long story short,this game is fun joke and should be played like that.Don't ever expect it to become skill intensive again and play it for what it is.Otherwise migrate to my favourite card game of all times gwent :3.I play them both and have fun with both because i know what i seek from each of them.
No. The game actually has an extreme amount of depth to it regarding strategy. It's what seperates solid-good-exceptional players. I can't tell you how many times I have seen legend players make obvious misplays, but then I watch a player like Kolento find lethal with what looks like an impossible play. Sure people like to bring rng up when we talk about skill in HS, but I will rebuttal with the fact that skill effects that area of the game too.
The problem with hearthstone isn't it's simplicity, it's Blizzard. For them, if people aren't playing new cards, then they blame old cards rather than reevaluating how they are balancing new cards. Instead of creating good interesting cards for every class, they force gimmick archtypes on us. Throw in a bunch of unplayable neutral minions. Allow new cards that are broken to stay broken because "they will rotate someday and new cards are exciting". Ancient of Lore nerf is a perfect example of this mentality. A rather fair way to draw or heal is obliterated. Meanwhile UI isn't seens as a problem.
Blizzard can't balance hearthstone and the closest they ever got was with Un'goro. An expansion they admit that they were surprised to see balanced. Until they change how they develop this game, it is doomed to continue on the path it has always been on. An unfair, unfun mess that people keep coming back to out love for the big flashy animations, easy to use interface, new mechanics and occasional fun game they have during the excitement of a new expansion.
Didn't someone mentioned that Amnesiac counted 148 mistakes last DH? Despite the fact we see a lot of similar names on the top,( Muzzy won?) HS ladder can be simple (There have always been very easy to pilot decks out there, so I'm not surprised that you see misplays if this guy only plays such a deck til Legend.
Like u said it's not Rocket Sience ,but stil.. some players put more thought into their plays ( and deckbuilding ofc) and that has to be a factor,otherwise we wouldn't see the same names all the time.
It's time to face the hard truth - Hearthstone won't be anymore complex than this during its lifetime. I appreciate the Kazakus, build-a-beast, highlander decks and the new princes, but it hardly raises the complexity more than a bit. I stopped getting the importance of decision making vibe from it, even the arena is all about curvestone and a few game enders now. Besides, it's really expensive.
As long as you netdeck it will be a bit more simple :). U can make HS as hard as you want tbh..
Grant me 3 HS wishes and the first one will be:
Delete all decklists from everywhere.
Second will be:
Keep them deleted everywhere forever ^^
Third will be:
Grant me best RNG !!!
Yes and no.
Hearthstone has a lot of deck that are very easy to play (examples: Secret Paladin, Aggro Druid)- and master, but it does also have decks that are fairly hard to play and near impossible to play 100% perfectly (examples: Patron Warrior, the new Fatigue Warrior)
Bitch i'm Willy Wonka!
I think people overrate the skill aspect. When the best players and decks have a 50% win rate how can you say it's anything more than a coin-toss most of the time?
Yep
After meta after meta of broken, straightforward decks being top tier, you start ro realise that HS at its core is a game designed for bad players to feel good about themselves. Legend, which is for a lot of people ''the end-goal'' does not require skill, it requires grinding. I don't think anyone will argue it takes skill to go to legend with jade druid, aggro druid, pirate warrior, razakus priest etc.
That's the way Blizzard designed the game and probably wanted it to turn out.
Fuck cubelock
The simplicity of HS is one of the main reasons for it gaining such a wide player base. Making it a very complex game would be a terrible decision that would turn most players off.
You have diffrent kinds of hearthstone.
Casual is kinda simple
Laddering is kinda simple but it takes time to hit legend each season unless you find some adjustments to have a slight better win rate then most net decks.
Now you have a diffrent kind of story that is'nt easy in HS.
Tournaments, you can't just go there with the 5 best net decks, you need to adjust some decks to have the upper hand in the whole tournament. You need to train the decks how to play against other decks, you need to have the awareness of the unexecpted decks, cards.
Tournaments are there in all kind of shapes, not only for the pro's.
Kind regards,
Michael
AJAX AMSTERDAM
It's like poker but without betting. The "hard" part is knowing how to calculate your odds in RNG situations and use that knowledge to make better decisions.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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The game is as hard as you make it. If you find that this game is too easy, play a difficult deck. I'm currently playing exodia Mage in wild and it is a lot harder than most decks.
So at all levels of hearthstone the average winrate is 50%. This is not an indicator of game health this is an indicator that when one person wins a game the other person loses it. By the mere fact that the game is competitive the average winrate is 50%. But pros on ladder have a higher winrate than that when they play decks that are half decent. This shows that pros have skill that the average person does not have. The game rewards skill because it is a strategy game. And the simpler the rules of a strategy game the better. Games like othello and chess are incredibly old and still played in large numbers (you may call othello something else it has like 5 different names, including reversi as the other most common one). Hearthstone took card games and simplified them in an attempt to create lasting appeal. And it worked, millions of people, a number of which constantly rage about how bad the game is, play it regularly and have for almost four years.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
People tend to confuse complexity and depth. You can have a really simple game that is really deep. Take Go for example. The game has what, like 6-7 rules, anyone can pick it up very quickly and start playing. You don't need to explain the rules for an hour like some board games. However, just to become a potent player, it takes years. That's the depth of the game: at each move, you have a ton of possibilities.
I am not saying HS is Go and it never will be, but there are decks that give you more depth than others. Exodia mage and Mill Rogue, for example, are hard decks to run and take a few games to grasp how to play it. In order to give players all types of experiences, they have created different levels of depths with the cards they release. I am not saying that the game is perfectly balanced, simple decks being too strong at the moment, but I believe that with their last two expansions, they are going in the right direction.
Questions are way stronger than answers in HS, there is almost no punishment for overextending.
well, if it too simple try some tournaments. raise your skillcap