I was inspired by Brian Kibler's Youtube Video about the upcoming standard changes, and I agree splitting formats is a great idea. However, as Kibler points out, keeping around some of the classic cards is problematic from a fresh meta perspective and so Blizzards solution to this is a series of upcoming nerfs to classic/basic cards to encourage a meta shakeup.
The problem with doing this is that nerfing so many cards will destroy a large number of decks in BOTH of the new formats. Kibler's suggestion is to instead simply rotate out the classic set entirely (or at least partially) and replace it with something else. That way people who like their current decks can continue to play them in the Wild format since those cards won't get nerfed, and the Standard format has a very different card pool.
My suggestion is to simply rotate a small number of select cards out of the Classic set altogether. Those cards will still be craftable, but they will a) no longer show up in Classic packs and b) no longer be standard legal (only legal in Wild).
Since we're removing cards from the classic set, they should be replaced in the classic card pool with an equivalent number of cards from GvG / Naxx so those select cards can still be used in standard and purchased in (now classic) packs.
My card choices aren't as relevant as the greater idea here, but if I were doing this swap I would remove the following cards from Classic Packs (read: remove from standard):
I'd replace them with the following. Note replacements are on a rarity and class card basis, thus if a druid epic is removed, it must be replaced with another druid epic for example.
Yes I'm aware that the proposed swaps are "worse" than the cards I'm proposing to remove. However, keep in mind that many of the cards on my "remove" list are very likely on the chopping block to get nerfed anyway, and blizzard feels they must do this to ensure decks are less ubiquitous. By simply removing them from Standard they at least don't get smashed with the nerf bat AND they will still get to see play in the Wild format at their current power level.
Another benefit is design space. Yes removing Tirion sucks for Paladins, but frankly he's so darn good already that Blizzard can't print any new good Pally Legendaries in the same mana slot (ditto Antonidas). By removing them from Standard (but not nerfing them) they are out of the way so Blizzard can replace them with equally cool legendaries in future sets.
Fiinally, by doing this and not nerfing them that means in the future if Blizzard so desires it they can "bring them back" to standard at a future date when the meta can better support the power level. They can simply rotate them back into classic packs at a future date and make them available again. If they are instead nerfed, then this becomes far more complicated to do.
I'm with Kibler on this, instead of nerfing classic cards, just rotate them out altogether so they are preserved for wild. That way standard thrives without wrecking so many existing decks.
I am a big fan of this concept and think it should be a serious consideration for the Dev team. The specific cards to be switched can be worked out and see a number of iterations, but this seems like a wise choice for preserving the Wild format and getting Standard started on the right foot. If a number of these cards are just nerfed outright, it will be a significant disruption and I would not be surprised to see a much larger pool of players drop out of Wild. Some specific nerfs might still be called for, but this sort of preliminary switch could be beneficial to make sure the any nerfs are sufficiently weighed and tested. I don't think anyone wants to see these cards go the way of Warsong Commander.
I understand the excitement from some to remove old archetypes from standard.
However, you are also removing them from wild. Take a second or two to consider that. There are people (myself included) whose interest in HS lies in some of these archetypes (for me specifically handlock and freeze mage). Changing these cards so they can't even exist in wild would make the game completely dead for me.
When you change cards, you don't just change them for standard.
It's nothing like a discussion on MTG legacy versus standard. The standard format in MTG doesn't change cards for the legacy format.
Wrath , Molten Giant , Keeper Of The Grove , Big Game Hunter , Azure Drake and Doomhammer are fairly balanced cards in my opinion.
Knife Juggler , Archmage Antonidas , Sylvannas Windrunner and Alexstrasza are debatable for me.
The suggestions about the removals you are saying are absurd, and some cards are too iconic to be removed, Blizzard wouldn't want to remove them such as Tirion Fordring and Sylvannas Windrunner these arw some cards that attract some of the WoW audience to the game, yes I am serious, I started the game so I can play with cards like alex, sylvannas and ysera.
But hey your riddiculous and destructive suggestions might be reasonable to them, just look at Starving Buzzard and Warsong Commander.
Heh, yeah... let's remove tirion and add muster for battle. That'll give room for future design space. Kappa.
Again the card choices aren't terribly relevant. The point is rotate out OP classic/basic cards and replace them with weaker ones so they don't have to be nerfed in the wild format.
If you don't like the idea of putting Muster back in (again Avenge, Shielded Minibot and Tirion Fordring and Divine Favor are all leaving in my imaginary scenario) then find another paladin rare in naxx/gvg OR don't remove Divine Favor to begin with.
Wrath , Molten Giant , Keeper Of The Grove , Big Game Hunter , Azure Drake and Doomhammer are fairly balanced cards in my opinion.
Knife Juggler , Archmage Antonidas , Sylvannas Windrunner and Alexstrasza are debatable for me.
The suggestions about the removals you are saying are absurd, and some cards are too iconic to be removed, Blizzard wouldn't want to remove them such as Tirion Fordring and Sylvannas Windrunner these arw some cards that attract some of the WoW audience to the game, yes I am serious, I started the game so I can play with cards like alex, sylvannas and ysera.
But hey your riddiculous and destructive suggestions might be reasonable to them, just look at Starving Buzzard and Warsong Commander.
If the choice is nerf card a or rotate it into wild which would you prefer?
I'd prefer they leave the card in tact and legal in wild as opposed to nerfing said card and making them unplayable in either format.
If this happens, I will take the 10 hour flight to Blizzcon next year, run on stage and punch whatever probably innocent Blizzard dev happens to be on stage in the face.
If this happens, I will take the 10 hour flight to Blizzcon next year, run on stage and punch whatever probably innocent Blizzard dev happens to be on stage in the face.
Again, the potential alternative is they nerf Antonidas and make him playable in neither format.
Perhaps they won't touch Antonidas. That would be the most preferable outcome.
Classic cards sucking in Wild is a very short-term problem. There will be oodles of strong expansion cards that slowly accumulate and crowd out even the unnerfed classic ones anyway. Its just not going to make much difference to Wild in the long run, so I don't see how the extra complexity is worth it.
Very very bad idea. Instead of keep some of the cards in standard, even nerfed you suggest to remove them entirely. Perhaps from person who aims to play wild mostly it seems like OK change, to change actually nothing but rotate watermarks. But for me it seems like bad idea.
I was inspired by Brian Kibler's Youtube Video about the upcoming standard changes, and I agree splitting formats is a great idea. However, as Kibler points out, keeping around some of the classic cards is problematic from a fresh meta perspective and so Blizzards solution to this is a series of upcoming nerfs to classic/basic cards to encourage a meta shakeup.
The problem with doing this is that nerfing so many cards will destroy a large number of decks in BOTH of the new formats. Kibler's suggestion is to instead simply rotate out the classic set entirely (or at least partially) and replace it with something else. That way people who like their current decks can continue to play them in the Wild format since those cards won't get nerfed, and the Standard format has a very different card pool.
My suggestion is to simply rotate a small number of select cards out of the Classic set altogether. Those cards will still be craftable, but they will a) no longer show up in Classic packs and b) no longer be standard legal (only legal in Wild).
Since we're removing cards from the classic set, they should be replaced in the classic card pool with an equivalent number of cards from GvG / Naxx so those select cards can still be used in standard and purchased in (now classic) packs.
My card choices aren't as relevant as the greater idea here, but if I were doing this swap I would remove the following cards from Classic Packs (read: remove from standard):
REMOVE:
Ironbeak Owl, Wrath, Keeper of the Grove, Savannah Highmane, Divine Favor, Knife Juggler, Azure Drake, Force of Nature, Big Game Hunter, Doomhammer, Molten Giant, Archmage Antonidas, Tirion Fordring, Sylvanas Windrunner, Alexstrasza
I'd replace them with the following. Note replacements are on a rarity and class card basis, thus if a druid epic is removed, it must be replaced with another druid epic for example.
ADD:
Puddlestomper, Anodized Robo Cub, Grove Tender, King of Beasts, Muster for Battle, Wailing Soul, Bomb Lobber, Shade of Naxxramas, Clockwork Giant, Siltfin Spiritwalker, Tree of Life, Mogor the Ogre, Troggzor the Earthinator, Bolvar Fordragon, Flame Leviathan
Yes I'm aware that the proposed swaps are "worse" than the cards I'm proposing to remove. However, keep in mind that many of the cards on my "remove" list are very likely on the chopping block to get nerfed anyway, and blizzard feels they must do this to ensure decks are less ubiquitous. By simply removing them from Standard they at least don't get smashed with the nerf bat AND they will still get to see play in the Wild format at their current power level.
Another benefit is design space. Yes removing Tirion sucks for Paladins, but frankly he's so darn good already that Blizzard can't print any new good Pally Legendaries in the same mana slot (ditto Antonidas). By removing them from Standard (but not nerfing them) they are out of the way so Blizzard can replace them with equally cool legendaries in future sets.
Fiinally, by doing this and not nerfing them that means in the future if Blizzard so desires it they can "bring them back" to standard at a future date when the meta can better support the power level. They can simply rotate them back into classic packs at a future date and make them available again. If they are instead nerfed, then this becomes far more complicated to do.
I'm with Kibler on this, instead of nerfing classic cards, just rotate them out altogether so they are preserved for wild. That way standard thrives without wrecking so many existing decks.
I am a big fan of this concept and think it should be a serious consideration for the Dev team. The specific cards to be switched can be worked out and see a number of iterations, but this seems like a wise choice for preserving the Wild format and getting Standard started on the right foot. If a number of these cards are just nerfed outright, it will be a significant disruption and I would not be surprised to see a much larger pool of players drop out of Wild. Some specific nerfs might still be called for, but this sort of preliminary switch could be beneficial to make sure the any nerfs are sufficiently weighed and tested. I don't think anyone wants to see these cards go the way of Warsong Commander.
I understand the excitement from some to remove old archetypes from standard.
However, you are also removing them from wild. Take a second or two to consider that. There are people (myself included) whose interest in HS lies in some of these archetypes (for me specifically handlock and freeze mage). Changing these cards so they can't even exist in wild would make the game completely dead for me.
When you change cards, you don't just change them for standard.
It's nothing like a discussion on MTG legacy versus standard. The standard format in MTG doesn't change cards for the legacy format.
Wrath , Molten Giant , Keeper Of The Grove , Big Game Hunter , Azure Drake and Doomhammer are fairly balanced cards in my opinion.
Knife Juggler , Archmage Antonidas , Sylvannas Windrunner and Alexstrasza are debatable for me.
The suggestions about the removals you are saying are absurd, and some cards are too iconic to be removed, Blizzard wouldn't want to remove them such as Tirion Fordring and Sylvannas Windrunner these arw some cards that attract some of the WoW audience to the game, yes I am serious, I started the game so I can play with cards like alex, sylvannas and ysera.
But hey your riddiculous and destructive suggestions might be reasonable to them, just look at Starving Buzzard and Warsong Commander.
Classic cards sucking in Wild is a very short-term problem. There will be oodles of strong expansion cards that slowly accumulate and crowd out even the unnerfed classic ones anyway. Its just not going to make much difference to Wild in the long run, so I don't see how the extra complexity is worth it.
Thanks for destroying handlock smartass, I mean Molten Giant is so op it is used in every deck right?
Very very bad idea. Instead of keep some of the cards in standard, even nerfed you suggest to remove them entirely. Perhaps from person who aims to play wild mostly it seems like OK change, to change actually nothing but rotate watermarks. But for me it seems like bad idea.
This is SO confusing ;_;
But please please please add Wee Spellstopper, don't let my waifu die, I love this girl, pleeeeease