Lady Vashj is by far the weakness designed prime card of ashes of outland. There is many reasons why this is the case:
1: Weakness stats for a prime when it comes back
Every other prime comes back either with the same stats or better. However, Lady Vashj comes back as a 7 mana 5/4 which is really weak compared to her effect. Look at Kargath Bladefist as an example who comes back as a 8 mana 10/10 with rush which can gain you 10 extra life. The theme with most of the primes are they come back with good effects and reasonable stats and Vashj Prime is the only one who comes back much weaker than its original form in compassion to its effect.
2: Only Prime which relies on other cards being in your deck
Look at Kargath Bladefist, Akama, Murgur Murgurgle, Reliquary of Souls etc. They all come back with a strong body and the cards make a threat on the board regardless of what you have left in your deck. Either thats a huge rush card, summoning murlocs or being always Stealth preparing to hit your in the face. However, you have to relie on what spells you have left to make Vashj Prime actually good. If you draw it too late or its dies too late then you will just automatically just have a useless prime.
3: Support cards that were printed are awkward and dont actually support the archetype
Spell Shaman feels like a much weaker elemental shaman, trying to desperately keep the chain of spells going. Apart from Shattered Rumbler [/card] which i think it good enough to fit into decks running certain spells, a spell shaman with [card]Torrent and Marshspawn feel really weak and difficult to pull off. The whole deck relies really on the weapon The Fist of Ra-den more than the other two cards to make spell shaman good and Vashj Prime has zero synergy with the deck as why do you want to make your spells cheaper? you rather keep expensive spells late game in hopes of getting bigger legendaries of the weapon.
4: Spell Shaman has no win condition and Lady Vashj makes the deck weaker
Lady Vashjis a good minion as a 4/3 with spell damage, however Vashj Prime is almost the reason you dont want to put Lady Vashj in your deck. it cant fit into a normal shaman as it needs to really fit into a deck with enough spells to justify running it and that deck currently has no win condition. Vashj Prime is not a win condition and barely a support card. Unlike all the other primes being good in decks that already exist or have been made, Lady Vashj is out of place.
it's because of the restricted card pool and lack of card draw, give it time. The card has huge potential and it will be around for another year or more don't go full "game designer" because you are not one.
it's because of the restricted card pool and lack of card draw, give it time. The card has huge potential and it will be around for another year or more don't go full "game designer" because you are not one.
I think you kind of missed the whole point of the post. i never said it was never going to be good, i just simply stated the fact its the worse designed prime out of 9 of them. You even said restricted card pool and lack of card draw makes the card unplayable almost now, which agrees with nearly everything i said.
but i agree it could all change in the next expansion if they print better spell support.
I do agree with what you’re saying but I would wait for more cards to come out from the other sets this year, shudderwock when it first came out was a good deck for the first few days of witchwood launch then it became bad, then shudderwock became a really big and annoying card when galakrond shaman was a thing.
If you look at the fundamentals vashj is a 3 mana 4/3 with spell damage that shuffles a skull of gul’dan into the deck on a 7 mana 5/4 body that also give 1 spell damage. You’re paying one more mana for stats and spell damage, which can be better as more cards come out
I do agree with what you’re saying but I would wait for more cards to come out from the other sets this year, shudderwock when it first came out was a good deck for the first few days of witchwood launch then it became bad, then shudderwock became a really big and annoying card when galakrond shaman was a thing.
If you look at the fundamentals vashj is a 3 mana 4/3 with spell damage that shuffles a skull of gul’dan into the deck on a 7 mana 5/4 body that also give 1 spell damage. You’re paying one more mana for stats and spell damage, which can be better as more cards come out
thanks, i do agree thinking about it that it could change in the next year or so, but just sucks that out of all the classes it has a really weak effect compared to all the others primes which all seem just alot stronger automatically.
however look at the warlock prime a 2 mana 3/2 which makes your demons cost 1 less and then shuffles a mini bloodreaver Guldan into your deck with a 6 mana 7/6 summon 3 demons that have died. that card is only going to get better and is already played in alot of control warlock decks.
i think it may get better next set if there are some powerful spells
Well since you have a restricted pool of cards, ofc it is probably bad now, wait until new expansions release and then maybe it will be meta. Also dont forget, just because its bad in standard, it doesnt have to be bad in wild with some decks like malygos spell mage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just hanging around, talking in my Morgan Freeman voice :D
In a metagame where all the Primes are Tier 2 cards at best (And I'm probably being a bit generous there), does it really make any sense to single out Vashj?
Eh, maybe but I don't think most of the primes will really start to shine until next expansion. Bad design or not, the effect is too powerful to be disregarded forever
I'm sure someone will figure out some Malygos OTK with the discounted spells.
I already did, as soon as I saw Vashj I made that deck xDDD So, the thing is, you have to be creative because right now, you NEED some sort of AoE to stop DH's barrage, and you want to have specific spells to make the Malygos turn. The trick I found to have enough damage spells to benefit from her and Malygos's spell dmg is using Cobalt Spellkin, because in shaman you will get Lightning Bolt, Frost Shock, Earth Shock, Forked Lightining or Storm's Wrath, and let me tell you, those Frost Shocks are consistent xDDD (Bonus trick, in DH you can use the Spellkin to get a Silence and a Mana Burn, because those are the only two 1-Cost spells xD) The deck works using some Overload synergies and some Spell Dmg, and it kinda works, even with the DH spam xD
Pretty much, they designed a MalyOTK combo card requiring low number of spells for consistency, assumes you don't draw those key cards BEFORE you draw this card twice and requires setup for AT BEST 32 damage (Vashj Prime + Malygos + Lava Burst/Lava Burst/Lightning Bolt).
Pretty much, they designed a MalyOTK combo card requiring low number of spells for consistency, assumes you don't draw those key cards BEFORE you draw this card twice and requires setup for AT BEST 32 damage (Vashj Prime + Malygos + Lava Burst/Lava Burst/Lightning Bolt).
In no reality can that occur
I think you nailed the true nature of the problem. You could probably make the body a 6/8 and discount the cards by (5) and the problems you outline above would still make the card underwhelming.
Pretty much, they designed a MalyOTK combo card requiring low number of spells for consistency, assumes you don't draw those key cards BEFORE you draw this card twice and requires setup for AT BEST 32 damage (Vashj Prime + Malygos + Lava Burst/Lava Burst/Lightning Bolt).
In no reality can that occur
Yeah, that is true, and it happens a lot. Maybe saying OTK deck is not entirely right, and it should be taken as a Burst deck, between Far Sight and Vashj you should be able to get discounts on the spells you have in the deck, or Malygos. And with Spellkin and the new elemental, get more burst or situational spells.
This is the deck I'm using at the moment, and it would be better to name it a Burst deck, kinda like what Krag'wa's deck wanted to be.
Lady Vashj is by far the weakness designed prime card of ashes of outland. There is many reasons why this is the case:
1: Weakness stats for a prime when it comes back
Every other prime comes back either with the same stats or better. However, Lady Vashj comes back as a 7 mana 5/4 which is really weak compared to her effect. Look at Kargath Bladefist as an example who comes back as a 8 mana 10/10 with rush which can gain you 10 extra life. The theme with most of the primes are they come back with good effects and reasonable stats and Vashj Prime is the only one who comes back much weaker than its original form in compassion to its effect.
2: Only Prime which relies on other cards being in your deck
Look at Kargath Bladefist, Akama, Murgur Murgurgle, Reliquary of Souls etc. They all come back with a strong body and the cards make a threat on the board regardless of what you have left in your deck. Either thats a huge rush card, summoning murlocs or being always Stealth preparing to hit your in the face. However, you have to relie on what spells you have left to make Vashj Prime actually good. If you draw it too late or its dies too late then you will just automatically just have a useless prime.
3: Support cards that were printed are awkward and dont actually support the archetype
Spell Shaman feels like a much weaker elemental shaman, trying to desperately keep the chain of spells going. Apart from Shattered Rumbler [/card] which i think it good enough to fit into decks running certain spells, a spell shaman with [card]Torrent and Marshspawn feel really weak and difficult to pull off. The whole deck relies really on the weapon The Fist of Ra-den more than the other two cards to make spell shaman good and Vashj Prime has zero synergy with the deck as why do you want to make your spells cheaper? you rather keep expensive spells late game in hopes of getting bigger legendaries of the weapon.
4: Spell Shaman has no win condition and Lady Vashj makes the deck weaker
Lady Vashj is a good minion as a 4/3 with spell damage, however Vashj Prime is almost the reason you dont want to put Lady Vashj in your deck. it cant fit into a normal shaman as it needs to really fit into a deck with enough spells to justify running it and that deck currently has no win condition. Vashj Prime is not a win condition and barely a support card. Unlike all the other primes being good in decks that already exist or have been made, Lady Vashj is out of place.
Totally agree. Good summary of a crappy card.
I'm sure someone will figure out some Malygos OTK with the discounted spells.
Because it's a shaman card.
It would be crappy because of RNG...
it's because of the restricted card pool and lack of card draw, give it time. The card has huge potential and it will be around for another year or more don't go full "game designer" because you are not one.
I think you kind of missed the whole point of the post. i never said it was never going to be good, i just simply stated the fact its the worse designed prime out of 9 of them. You even said restricted card pool and lack of card draw makes the card unplayable almost now, which agrees with nearly everything i said.
but i agree it could all change in the next expansion if they print better spell support.
Shaman has no win condition other then evolving weapon and that archetype doesnt care about spellpower or cost reduction :<
On the other hand not every card has to be strong now. Im sure they ll print some powerfull spells later on and then its gonna be Ladytime :)
I do agree with what you’re saying but I would wait for more cards to come out from the other sets this year, shudderwock when it first came out was a good deck for the first few days of witchwood launch then it became bad, then shudderwock became a really big and annoying card when galakrond shaman was a thing.
If you look at the fundamentals vashj is a 3 mana 4/3 with spell damage that shuffles a skull of gul’dan into the deck on a 7 mana 5/4 body that also give 1 spell damage. You’re paying one more mana for stats and spell damage, which can be better as more cards come out
𝔅𝔶 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔢𝔩𝔢𝔪𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔰 𝔠𝔬𝔪𝔟𝔦𝔫𝔢𝔡!
thanks, i do agree thinking about it that it could change in the next year or so, but just sucks that out of all the classes it has a really weak effect compared to all the others primes which all seem just alot stronger automatically.
however look at the warlock prime a 2 mana 3/2 which makes your demons cost 1 less and then shuffles a mini bloodreaver Guldan into your deck with a 6 mana 7/6 summon 3 demons that have died. that card is only going to get better and is already played in alot of control warlock decks.
i think it may get better next set if there are some powerful spells
Well since you have a restricted pool of cards, ofc it is probably bad now, wait until new expansions release and then maybe it will be meta. Also dont forget, just because its bad in standard, it doesnt have to be bad in wild with some decks like malygos spell mage.
Just hanging around, talking in my Morgan Freeman voice :D
Yeah, it's pretty bad right now. However, I'm pretty certain spell Shaman will become more of a thing in the next expansion(s).
In a metagame where all the Primes are Tier 2 cards at best (And I'm probably being a bit generous there), does it really make any sense to single out Vashj?
Eh, maybe but I don't think most of the primes will really start to shine until next expansion. Bad design or not, the effect is too powerful to be disregarded forever
I already did, as soon as I saw Vashj I made that deck xDDD
So, the thing is, you have to be creative because right now, you NEED some sort of AoE to stop DH's barrage, and you want to have specific spells to make the Malygos turn. The trick I found to have enough damage spells to benefit from her and Malygos's spell dmg is using Cobalt Spellkin, because in shaman you will get Lightning Bolt, Frost Shock, Earth Shock, Forked Lightining or Storm's Wrath, and let me tell you, those Frost Shocks are consistent xDDD (Bonus trick, in DH you can use the Spellkin to get a Silence and a Mana Burn, because those are the only two 1-Cost spells xD)
The deck works using some Overload synergies and some Spell Dmg, and it kinda works, even with the DH spam xD
Pretty much, they designed a MalyOTK combo card requiring low number of spells for consistency, assumes you don't draw those key cards BEFORE you draw this card twice and requires setup for AT BEST 32 damage (Vashj Prime + Malygos + Lava Burst/Lava Burst/Lightning Bolt).
In no reality can that occur
I think you nailed the true nature of the problem. You could probably make the body a 6/8 and discount the cards by (5) and the problems you outline above would still make the card underwhelming.
Galavant Animation
And of course was the free golden legendary i got with preorder
Yeah, that is true, and it happens a lot. Maybe saying OTK deck is not entirely right, and it should be taken as a Burst deck, between Far Sight and Vashj you should be able to get discounts on the spells you have in the deck, or Malygos. And with Spellkin and the new elemental, get more burst or situational spells.
This is the deck I'm using at the moment, and it would be better to name it a Burst deck, kinda like what Krag'wa's deck wanted to be.
And of course was the free golden legendary i got with preorder
Same! Let's hope it becomes key in the future, because right now I am not impressed!