I said it in the post. The bad, "noncounterable" thing about this card are those stop-points, which you can take on your turn.
Many ppl mentioned the charge minions, I also added spell damage (why not velen as well), into a board impacting expensive drop (baron gedon). You can react to this only when your turn comes.
I also mentioned something as an edit:
[edit] I see that the word "counterplay" can become a very debatable topic. If we look at this as a super Innervate, then in a way you can't really stop the opponent from playing those minions. What you do is after the minion is being played and when you get to play your turn. What happens betwixt and between, well - you can see Zukuu's point.
What if the oponent has no hand and no board... and you have cho, another minion, 10 mana and evolve the other minion 10 times, giving your oponent 10 of this card... does that mean your opponent automatically loses?
lol if your opponent has no board and no hand he lost anyway
+ But how early have you seen people play those cards. I don't play in wild, so fuck those giant decks.
But miracle with their arcane giants, tokens with their sea giants... - those don't get played that early that easily. Some requirements must be fulfilled.
Unstable Defense System - Warrior - 1 mana, gain 1 armor, repeatable this turn.
Unstable Bubble - Paladin - 1 mana, give a minion divine shield, repeatable this turn.
Unstable Spark - Druid - 1 mana, summon a 1/1 spark that gains +1+1 at the start of your turn, repeatable this turn. (need something completely broken to replace Jade in 4 months)
Unstable Weaponry - Rogue - 1 mana, give your weapon +1 attack this turn, repeatable this turn.
Unstable Strength - Hunter, 1 mana, give a beast +1 attack till the end of the turn, repeatable this turn.
If you think this is anywhere close to FFA then you need to think about this card again. FFA is good because you get to PICK, and usually of the three choices there is one that's quite a bit better than the other. Here you have to roll the dice; sure you get to re roll but it's just rng after rng.
Btw by your logic FFA also doesn't have counterplay
Free From Amber costs 8 mana. I'm not sure I follow here. With this you can potentially have a 8 drop on turn 4 - if you want to, since the card has a fuckton of applications at almost all stages of the game. FFA was merely mentioned to show that the card is incredibly versatile.
I said it in the post. The bad, "noncounterable" thing about this card are those stop-points, which you can take on your turn.
Many ppl mentioned the charge minions, I also added spell damage (why not velen as well), into a board impacting expensive drop. You can react to this only when your turn comes.
I also mentioned something as an edit:
[edit] I see that the word "counterplay" can become a very debatable topic. If we look at this as a super Innervate, then in a way you can't really stop the opponent from playing those minions. What you do is after the minion is being played and when you get to play your turn. What happens betwixt and between, well - you can see Zukuu's point.
But the point remains: How are the "noncounterable things" that this card does any different or worse than those done by any deck that cheats out something big early? How is it worse than dopple+evolve, which is what the deck is based around?
The same stuff that kills shaman now will kill shaman going forward - good board clear or beating them on board before they beat you. Shaman has redundant evolves now, which absolutely makes it better - more of the best thing your deck does is always good, and this does it quite well. But the people losing their minds over this are off base.
There are a lot of haters of the evolve archetype, but I love it.
This one belong to a different kind of evolve deck, though. For one, it doesn't synergize so well with Doppelgangster. But it synergizes better with a control built deck. It is more dudsafe and can be broken with the new legendary, since you can build a battlecry centered deck this way. Or you can buff a minion until you get one with charge, then attack, then play Grumble, Worldshaker, to have the charge minion at 1 mana in your hand.
Dunno about using both this and Evolve. Doesn't seem like there's much space for everything else. Looks more like one or another.
This definitely lets Control Shaman run some Moat Lurkers and Bomb Squads.
Play Volcano and clear board, then play the Arcane Tyrant and turn it into a power minion(you can go all the way to 10 with it, or stop when you get Lich King, Tyrion or Ysera)
Edit: Actually playing Arcane Tyrant at 0 wouldnt work would it.....
More RNG-evolving crap. We really need something more, why switching Shaman to some new mechanics or give some tool to allow some efficient archetype (like Elemental, just as exemple)? No, it will be too good. Better stick to a terrible clown fiesta solution.
Anyway the card is absolutly good for its effect and can lead to some crazy outcome.
Absurdly good. Yeah it costs more than regular evolve but it can be used on boards with a single minion and it takes random bad luck out of the equation.
It's also very versatile since you can just use a totem for a pseudo-Free From Amber. You can also stop at any point when you get a good minion, so you aren't fixed on a certain outcome like with Doomsayer or a 1/1. By making it a player-choice, you reduce it's RNG by A LOT.
People misinterpreting this a lot and for some reason concentrate their mind on this one word, excluding everything else from his post.
Inb4 he uses FFA as an example. He calls the effect of the new shaman card a pseudo one - don't overlook this word.
Secondly this card really kinda almost performs like the FFA. With the Evolve you roll once, you get what you paid for.
1) With this you can reroll again and again, only this time you are boosting the value (not a Recombobulator effect). You do this until you get the effect you need. At the end of the day you really make a choice. The between outcomes are random ones, and true, you can't really predict what the next evolve will transform your minions into, but you do decide the end result. If it's a good minion, then you don't want to risk it.
2) You get the value extremely early. If priests had Bloodbloom, then we would have been talking a lot differently. This card has the bad potential to enable unfair tempo swings. Why did Innervate get nerfed? It's not the same card, but there is an edge, which works similarly to that card and that this playing out expensive stuff cheaply.
Just realized this was also tested in the Halloween Brawl with Jaina's ability to cast a spell twice if you have the mana for it. Nicely implemented.
I don't think so. That was automated, wasn't it? This just adds a card back to your hand. I'd say it functions the same as Valeera the Hollow's Shadow Reflection, just that it adds a copy of itself to your hand after you have cast it and then also just disappears at the end of the turn. It might have the same visual effect as well.
Meh... why do they keep supporting the Evolve archetype? Do they actually want Shaman to stay as one-dimensional, thus boring as it is now? Or is it because Shaman is the RNG class by nature? I just don't get it. That's like asking for additional Pirates or Murlocs which have infested the meta for long enough.
Um... so I can drop a 2 cost on turn 2, then triple cast on turn 3 to get a 5 cost minion on board while my opponent is playing a 3 cost minion? Lets Shaman put a LOT of board pressure on early without needing to flood the board. Interesting...
Ok so you can cast this as many times in a turn, as long as you have the mana available ofc and it will leave your hand at the end of the said turn, so here is my stupid question of the day, lets say I get it turn 1 and I don't use it, would it stay on my hand as long as I don't use it{? that's it right?
This seems like a pretty good card, but I don't really see it fitting well in the standard aggro evolve Shaman. Evolve Shaman wants to go wide on the board and evolve or bloodlust all their minions at once. Single target evolve that you can use as many times in a turn as you can afford seems more like a mid-range or control card. If Elemental Shaman is going to be a viable deck, you'll probably have two copies of this in there. With this and the new Shaman legendary minion, that deck is getting there. Too bad the weapon is garbage.
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+ But how early have you seen people play those cards. I don't play in wild, so fuck those giant decks.
But miracle with their arcane giants, tokens with their sea giants... - those don't get played that early that easily. Some requirements must be fulfilled.
Now we just need repeatable "unstable" cards for the other classes.
The same stuff that kills shaman now will kill shaman going forward - good board clear or beating them on board before they beat you. Shaman has redundant evolves now, which absolutely makes it better - more of the best thing your deck does is always good, and this does it quite well. But the people losing their minds over this are off base.
Love it.
There are a lot of haters of the evolve archetype, but I love it.
This one belong to a different kind of evolve deck, though. For one, it doesn't synergize so well with Doppelgangster. But it synergizes better with a control built deck. It is more dudsafe and can be broken with the new legendary, since you can build a battlecry centered deck this way. Or you can buff a minion until you get one with charge, then attack, then play Grumble, Worldshaker, to have the charge minion at 1 mana in your hand.
Dunno about using both this and Evolve. Doesn't seem like there's much space for everything else. Looks more like one or another.
This definitely lets Control Shaman run some Moat Lurkers and Bomb Squads.
Play Volcano and clear board, then play the Arcane Tyrant and turn it into a power minion(you can go all the way to 10 with it, or stop when you get Lich King, Tyrion or Ysera)
Edit: Actually playing Arcane Tyrant at 0 wouldnt work would it.....
More RNG-evolving crap. We really need something more, why switching Shaman to some new mechanics or give some tool to allow some efficient archetype (like Elemental, just as exemple)? No, it will be too good. Better stick to a terrible clown fiesta solution.
Anyway the card is absolutly good for its effect and can lead to some crazy outcome.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
Just realized this was also tested in the Halloween Brawl with Jaina's ability to cast a spell twice if you have the mana for it. Nicely implemented.
Absurdly good. Yeah it costs more than regular evolve but it can be used on boards with a single minion and it takes random bad luck out of the equation.
People misinterpreting this a lot and for some reason concentrate their mind on this one word, excluding everything else from his post.
Inb4 he uses FFA as an example. He calls the effect of the new shaman card a pseudo one - don't overlook this word.
Secondly this card really kinda almost performs like the FFA. With the Evolve you roll once, you get what you paid for.
1) With this you can reroll again and again, only this time you are boosting the value (not a Recombobulator effect). You do this until you get the effect you need. At the end of the day you really make a choice. The between outcomes are random ones, and true, you can't really predict what the next evolve will transform your minions into, but you do decide the end result. If it's a good minion, then you don't want to risk it.
2) You get the value extremely early. If priests had Bloodbloom, then we would have been talking a lot differently. This card has the bad potential to enable unfair tempo swings. Why did Innervate get nerfed? It's not the same card, but there is an edge, which works similarly to that card and that this playing out expensive stuff cheaply.
It will prolly be a staple in Evo-shaman. Especially since it also works in an empty field with top decking.
Favourite card in Hearthstone: Dark Magician :)
whoever said dust it must not play shaman
Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─
Meh... why do they keep supporting the Evolve archetype? Do they actually want Shaman to stay as one-dimensional, thus boring as it is now? Or is it because Shaman is the RNG class by nature? I just don't get it. That's like asking for additional Pirates or Murlocs which have infested the meta for long enough.
Um... so I can drop a 2 cost on turn 2, then triple cast on turn 3 to get a 5 cost minion on board while my opponent is playing a 3 cost minion? Lets Shaman put a LOT of board pressure on early without needing to flood the board. Interesting...
Hope for Sorcerers Apprentice from Kabal Courier.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Ok so you can cast this as many times in a turn, as long as you have the mana available ofc and it will leave your hand at the end of the said turn, so here is my stupid question of the day, lets say I get it turn 1 and I don't use it, would it stay on my hand as long as I don't use it{? that's it right?
This seems like a pretty good card, but I don't really see it fitting well in the standard aggro evolve Shaman.
Evolve Shaman wants to go wide on the board and evolve or bloodlust all their minions at once. Single target evolve that you can use as many times in a turn as you can afford seems more like a mid-range or control card. If Elemental Shaman is going to be a viable deck, you'll probably have two copies of this in there. With this and the new Shaman legendary minion, that deck is getting there. Too bad the weapon is garbage.