The thing I like about Spreading Plague is it is a good anti-aggro tool that punishes BOTH players for playing minions.
That's pretty cool.
While I like the idea, of punishing over-extension, Druid isn't the right class for this card to have been given to or at the very least Spreading Plague is too punishing. Punishing the opponent for trying to beat you with the best strategy against your strategy isn't good for the health of the game. The problem with the card isn't the concept, but the fact that it covers up Druid's main weakness far too well.
The only problem with druid is the crazy amount of ramp they have now that they use nourish for ramp instead of card draw. UI isn't broken itself, it's how fast that they can play it that makes it unfair.
UI is very powerfull, maybe little too much and im talking about playing it at turn 10 without ramp. Playing it earlier breaks the game. Did you guys happened to play double innervate at some early turns? Like some six mana big minion at turn 2? If your opponent had removial, you were done, becouse of lack of cards next turns. It was balanced, but when you can throw all your ramp cards and refill your hands its just stupidly op:
I've been playing jade druid on ladder just to see the flip side of the coin as traditionally I've always loved priest and shaman.
I honestly don't think plague is the card to NERF. I actually dropped it from my list for Bonemares. So often it just sits in your hand and is a dead card or a 5mana 1/5 taunt.
In a Jade druid deck it's super easy to dump a minion and Bonemare, even on an empty board against agro and against warlocks or priests or mirrors it turns small minions into big threats and can push huge damage fast.
I'm interested as to what T5 comes up with because, honestly, ramp in combination with the current card pool is the problem. But, ramp is a core of druid so I don't think it should be touched as it would detract from class identity.
I don't expect a nerf to any of the Jade cards, since all the things people (me included) hate about them have been present since MSG was released and never even named as under consideration for a nerf.
I think what is different about Druid since KFT is that the risk/reward ratio is broken:
Previously, Jade Druid could be countered by killing them quickly, using an aggro deck or even some mid-range decks. Spreading Plague reduced that risk a lot: if the opponent commits all their minions to the board, the plague will delay them significantly. If they don't commit all their minions, they are delaying themselves.
Also extreme ramp always had the risk of ending up at 10 mana with an empty hand. Ultimate Infestation changes that: if you can get to 10 mana, you can not only refill your hand, but do so without falling behind on board.
I expect Blizzard will not just want to fix the current meta, but also try to prevent the same issue from happening again. Innervate has been a problem card for a while, bringing out minions such as Vicious Fledgling or Bittertide Hydra before the opponent can deal with them. Those problems weren't enough to trigger a nerf, but if something is going to be nerfed now, it would make Innervate a more likely target (future design space and all that).
What I would consider a good change is to remove Excess Mana from Wild Growth: this re-instates some of the risk associated with ramping, since it will become a dead card in the late game. Also it limits the amount of cards you can draw using Gadgetzan Auctioneer: since Excess Mana is a spell too, you can currently exchange one Wild Growth for two card draws at the cost of just 2 mana. Excess Mana is an inconsistent (only Wild Growth produces it) and unwritten interaction anyway, but while Blizzard does clean up inconsistencies, it doesn't seem to be their top priority. When it comes to precedent, as far as I know the interaction between Sacrificial Pact and Lord Jaraxxus still exists, but they did nerf Yogg-Saron, Hope's End without changing the card text.
To conclude, I think it's most likely Innervate and Ultimate Infestation will be nerfed.
The biggest disappointment i have about this news is that the TE didn't began the thread with: Great news EVERYONE.
In the end i hope that Ultimate Infestation gets hit with the Nerf-bat pretty hard and maybe a small clap on Spreading Plague too; but rather than Spreading Plague i want to see a nerf on Jade Idol!
UI: 3 of everything OR 8 mana: Choose one: deal 5 damage and summon a 5/5 OR Draw 5 cards and get 5 Armor
I would prefer the second variant, because then you gain the same effect as now if you have Fandral on board.
It needs to be something that nerfs druid as a whole. Aggro druid is also pretty ridiculous at the moment and that's not even because of UI and Spreading Plague. Going to have to be something like Innervate too.
And after they nerf, what are you guys going to do? I will tell you what: you're going to complain about something else like Big Priest or Fatigue Warrior.
I'm not sure that Spreading Plague is the real problem. It's just a weaker AoE clear which is not the strength of the druid class at all. The big problem, is that the longer the game lasts, the more invincible Druid becomes and Plague just buys them extra time.
I don't want a Meta full of aggro (again!) just to counter druid. I'd prefer a slower Meta but with an actual higher chance to beat Druid from time to time outside of a very few counter decks.
I think that that was the mistaken evaluation a lot of us did early on with the card, but this card doesn't just act as soft AoE it also acts as immense health gain and often stalls 1 - 2 turns that the Druid can then use to get even more ahead by ramping instead of responding to the board. A nerf that would maybe make Spreading Plague 4 mana to summon 2 Scarabs would allow the card to remain playable, in some archetypes, but wouldn't punish strategies like Evolve Shaman/Murloc Paladin/Aggro Druid allowing for these decks to be more effective against Jade to the point that maybe Jade Druid becomes bad enough to be run too much (unless we get control meta, which we won't get but obviously in a very slow meta Jade Druid will be the best deck).
I think that for slower decks to have a better chance against Jade Druid there are a couple of Jade cards that need to change, but from what they have said its unlikely they're even considering those. Jade Idol should only be able to shuffle once, making it harder for Druid's to just play the 1st copy as a counter to Skulking Geist, which in turn makes Geist an even better counter and the second change I'd like to see is make Jade Blossom 4 mana, which prevents some early game ramp combos (namely Coin + WG -> JB or Innervate + JB -> JB) and reduces Druid's ramping speed by 1. Doesn't nerf Ramp as much, but also makes Jade Druid much worse further worsening its bad matchups and giving a better fighting chance for other slow decks.
And after they nerf, what are you guys going to do? I will tell you what: you're going to complain about something else like Big Priest or Fatigue Warrior.
Admit it, Jade Druid is not the problem.
The problem with Jade Druid is that it shapes the game around itself. Is your deck good enough to take games from Jade? Yes? Well then you can play your deck in ladder. No? Well sucks to be you. Clearly you must see the problem.
A highroll deck like Big Priest beats itself, whenever it doesn't draw too well (essentially getting Barnes on 4) and Fatigue Warrior isn't even that good of a deck yet. In fact, with most reasonable nerfs I would say Fatigue Warrior still gets dumped on by Jade Druid.
Why do so many people take it as a given that a big druid nerf would introduce the current number 2 class as the new top dog? If the decks, around which the whole meta is built around vanish than the whole meta breaks down and nobody knows which deck will end up being number one. Mage, warrior, priest, warlock have all great chances for being one of the top controll decks + probably a good tempo deck like murloc paladin (with it's explosive starts) will take over..
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who can take your trash out? Stomp it down for you? Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy, too?
guys remember the way blizzard nerf. it can easily be UI reduce draw to 2, or 3/3/3/3, maybe even in addition to spreading plague nerf, and on top of that nerf to innervate. im not saying its ok, but look back - nerfed decks were never playable again. i anticipate nothing different
Meh, UI and spreading plague are fairly interesting (a bit overtuned though) cards that could help bolster or create new druid archetypes. Jade concept on the other hand, does nothing but restrict druid since msog, is universally loathed, is plain uninteresting, requires a specific tech if you're control and bends so many rules of value and tempo that I don't see why they should not just kill those and very slightly nerf UI/plague so that they can still help in creating new druid decks. I don't even care jade is rotating soon, it has far overstayed it's welcome for how meta-bending that deck is.
Nourish is gonna have its option to ramp replaced by something useless Im calling it
That's Incredible!
I've been playing jade druid on ladder just to see the flip side of the coin as traditionally I've always loved priest and shaman.
I honestly don't think plague is the card to NERF. I actually dropped it from my list for Bonemares. So often it just sits in your hand and is a dead card or a 5mana 1/5 taunt.
In a Jade druid deck it's super easy to dump a minion and Bonemare, even on an empty board against agro and against warlocks or priests or mirrors it turns small minions into big threats and can push huge damage fast.
I'm interested as to what T5 comes up with because, honestly, ramp in combination with the current card pool is the problem. But, ramp is a core of druid so I don't think it should be touched as it would detract from class identity.
Great news i can't wait to start losing again on T5 against pirate warriors and murlocs.
I'm so excited!
I don't expect a nerf to any of the Jade cards, since all the things people (me included) hate about them have been present since MSG was released and never even named as under consideration for a nerf.
I think what is different about Druid since KFT is that the risk/reward ratio is broken:
Previously, Jade Druid could be countered by killing them quickly, using an aggro deck or even some mid-range decks. Spreading Plague reduced that risk a lot: if the opponent commits all their minions to the board, the plague will delay them significantly. If they don't commit all their minions, they are delaying themselves.
Also extreme ramp always had the risk of ending up at 10 mana with an empty hand. Ultimate Infestation changes that: if you can get to 10 mana, you can not only refill your hand, but do so without falling behind on board.
I expect Blizzard will not just want to fix the current meta, but also try to prevent the same issue from happening again. Innervate has been a problem card for a while, bringing out minions such as Vicious Fledgling or Bittertide Hydra before the opponent can deal with them. Those problems weren't enough to trigger a nerf, but if something is going to be nerfed now, it would make Innervate a more likely target (future design space and all that).
What I would consider a good change is to remove Excess Mana from Wild Growth: this re-instates some of the risk associated with ramping, since it will become a dead card in the late game. Also it limits the amount of cards you can draw using Gadgetzan Auctioneer: since Excess Mana is a spell too, you can currently exchange one Wild Growth for two card draws at the cost of just 2 mana. Excess Mana is an inconsistent (only Wild Growth produces it) and unwritten interaction anyway, but while Blizzard does clean up inconsistencies, it doesn't seem to be their top priority. When it comes to precedent, as far as I know the interaction between Sacrificial Pact and Lord Jaraxxus still exists, but they did nerf Yogg-Saron, Hope's End without changing the card text.
To conclude, I think it's most likely Innervate and Ultimate Infestation will be nerfed.
Warrior have Protect the King! .. it cost 3 mana and effect is very similar.. So what about plague 1/3 taunts? or idk.. But 1/5 taunt is over the line
The biggest disappointment i have about this news is that the TE didn't began the thread with: Great news EVERYONE.
In the end i hope that Ultimate Infestation gets hit with the Nerf-bat pretty hard and maybe a small clap on Spreading Plague too; but rather than Spreading Plague i want to see a nerf on Jade Idol!
UI: 3 of everything OR 8 mana: Choose one: deal 5 damage and summon a 5/5 OR Draw 5 cards and get 5 Armor
I would prefer the second variant, because then you gain the same effect as now if you have Fandral on board.
Swipe is a fair card tho
It needs to be something that nerfs druid as a whole. Aggro druid is also pretty ridiculous at the moment and that's not even because of UI and Spreading Plague. Going to have to be something like Innervate too.
And after they nerf, what are you guys going to do? I will tell you what: you're going to complain about something else like Big Priest or Fatigue Warrior.
Admit it, Jade Druid is not the problem.
Why do so many people take it as a given that a big druid nerf would introduce the current number 2 class as the new top dog? If the decks, around which the whole meta is built around vanish than the whole meta breaks down and nobody knows which deck will end up being number one. Mage, warrior, priest, warlock have all great chances for being one of the top controll decks + probably a good tempo deck like murloc paladin (with it's explosive starts) will take over..
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
Yeah, nerf Druid but not that Pirate shit... seems legit.
guys remember the way blizzard nerf. it can easily be UI reduce draw to 2, or 3/3/3/3, maybe even in addition to spreading plague nerf, and on top of that nerf to innervate. im not saying its ok, but look back - nerfed decks were never playable again. i anticipate nothing different
Meh, UI and spreading plague are fairly interesting (a bit overtuned though) cards that could help bolster or create new druid archetypes. Jade concept on the other hand, does nothing but restrict druid since msog, is universally loathed, is plain uninteresting, requires a specific tech if you're control and bends so many rules of value and tempo that I don't see why they should not just kill those and very slightly nerf UI/plague so that they can still help in creating new druid decks. I don't even care jade is rotating soon, it has far overstayed it's welcome for how meta-bending that deck is.
Its just a tech card, like claiming the black knight is too strong if suddenly everyone starts playing taunt warrior.
A class should not have irredeemable counters because then a specific meta would render it useless.