First, Druid must play 1 jade idol and choose minion. Then, Warlock must play gnomeferatu before second idol is drawn. Finally, the random card must be exactly jade idol.
Hard countered.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Even when you know your opponent won't play N'Zoth this game, that knowledge is pretty useless. You might use Twisting Nether more liberal and that's it. So even in the best case scenario it's not that great.
(and again, the chance that he won't play N'Zoth is the same whether you play Gnomeferatu or not, you only gain small chance to know it)
First point. That knowledge is useless? Playing around cards, knowing what the opponent can or can't do, is more likely to draw vs. less likely to draw is very good, especially when it's because you actually made them less likely to draw the card or play the card because you straight up destroyed it. Don't act like using Twisting Nether more liberally isn't a huge deal. You could wipe his board and he would have no way to reestablish...what isn't HUGE about that. Instead of using a bunch of other removal or playing minions into a bad board state for trades you can just pop the nether because you don't have to save it anymore. Which makes playing your minions a much stronger tempo play now rather than sacrificial lambs to slow the bleeding. That is HUGE.
You don't have to hit N'zoth either for the card to be useful, you just need to hit something decent. Obviously hitting a Golakka Crawler would suck ass. This is where the card really bites you in the ass. Them drawing Golakka when they wanted something better is good for you, but you milled it, so now they draw something instead. Doesn't even have to be a 'key' card. Just a useful one and now you have kinda screwed yourself cause they will never draw that crawler and instead will draw something likely far more useful to them pretty much every turn.
You seem to not understand that playing this card doesn't decrease the chance for your opponent to draw any specific card.
Knowledge about any specific card in your opponent hand/deck is only useful if you can make different play because of it. People are obsessed with exact probability of drawing a card. it's useless too unless it can change your play. Twisting Nether example is the best case scenario that most players won't benefit from anyway (they would play Twisting the first time they think it's a good play anyway)
You seem to not understand that playing this card doesn't decrease the chance for your opponent to draw any specific card.
Knowledge about any specific card in your opponent hand/deck is only useful if you can make different play because of it. People are obsessed with exact probability of drawing a card. it's useless too unless it can change your play. Twisting Nether example is the best case scenario that most players won't benefit from anyway (they would play Twisting the first time they think it's a good play anyway)
It most certainly does decrease the chance for the them to draw a card. There is no actual deck order in this game. You have a chance to draw a random card from your deck every turn. When you decrease the number of a specific card in a deck, it very VERY much does reduce the chance that they'll draw into it. Further more it reduces the number of times to use that effect in a game, which is important.
...your second point makes no sense to me. The POINT of gaining that knowledge allows you to make plays that you may not have before because you were afraid of a punish or certain outcome. If the player isn't smart enough to take advantage of those plays, that is on the player. Your twisting nether example is actually the perfect example in favor of my point. I know they don't have a way to repopulate the board now so I can just use it. If I didn't burn N'zoth though I would hold on to it for as long as possible. If a player just throws it out willy nilly, that is a problem for that player, not for this card. Knowing what you don't have to play around is pretty huge.
I honestly don't know how good the card will be. It's an effect that we haven't seen before really. So don't mistake what I am saying. The knowledge of the card you burn still isn't water tight. You still have to play the odds and those odds could really screw you over. But the points you bring up aren't all that compelling and just wrong in some cases.
Issues with the card I have are this. It is slow, so playing a 2/3 on two isn't exactly a high tempo play and the dividends may not pay off till quite a bit later, IF they ever do. So you are making a sub par play now for an uncertain pay off. That is tough to justify. You could play it, burn some useless tech card (like Golakka Crawler or ooze) and actually bring them closer to getting cards they actually want. Further more you get no useful knowledge out of a scenario such as this. You just played a lower than average tempo card for what is almost certainly a benefit for you opponent.
The worst case, it's just a 2/3 and you burn a random card. But this won't make you lose the game.
On the other hand, if you burn a specific, needed combo card, maybe an Auctioneer when your opponent was waiting for this top deck with a full hand of spells, then you just win the game. Even if the chance for this to happen is like 3%, it's still possible.
but since this card is warlock only, we won't see it much anyway i guess
Lets say you play 100 games against a deck with 5 very important cards. If your opponent draws fewer of them during a game they have significantly lower chance of winning.
On average games go for 14 turns. Your opponent draws 20 cards including 3.33 important ones on average.
Now imagine you play 100 more games, but this time you put Gnomeferatu into your deck. Let's say you play one Gnomeferatu each game. How many important cards will your opponent draw on average after 20 drawn cards? It was 3.33 when you wasn't playing Gnomeferatu and it's 3.33 per game when you do play it every game. It's not even 1% less, it's exactly the same (unless your opponent goes to fatigue, and he/she doesn't because you play warlock).
Lets say you play 100 games against a deck with 5 very important cards. If your opponent draws fewer of them during a game they have significantly lower chance of winning.
On average games go for 14 turns. Your opponent draws 20 cards including 3.33 important ones on average.
Now imagine you play 100 more games, but this time you put Gnomeferatu into your deck. Let's say you play one Gnomeferatu each game. How many important cards will your opponent draw on average after 20 drawn cards? It was 3.33 when you wasn't playing Gnomeferatu and it's 3.33 per game when you do play it every game. It's not even 1% less, it's exactly the same (unless your opponent goes to fatigue, and he/she doesn't because you play warlock).
/r/magicTCG is joking about you guys who think this card is more than a simple 2/3 for 2 mana. The big amount of 'meta breaking' votings just show, how bad you are in math/logic.
You guys are thinking how bad we are, we however aren't thinking about you at all.
MTG has a 60 card deck minimum, with up to 4 of each card, a 7 card starting hand, and almost half of you deck is mana crystals. Not only that, MTG has a graveyard that you can interact with, so you might as well be giving them an extra card draw. Also, if you go into fatigue you lose instantly. Gnomeferatu isn't the end of the world, but its effect in hearthstone is much greater than it would be in MTG, even if you don't factor in it discarding your opponent's win condition,
Everyone ripping this card, except those who are for some reason butt hurt about it, will play this and laugh their tails every time it works out positively. Also, the rage this will cause will be awesome.
The worst case, it's just a 2/3 and you burn a random card. But this won't make you lose the game.
On the other hand, if you burn a specific, needed combo card, maybe an Auctioneer when your opponent was waiting for this top deck with a full hand of spells, then you just win the game. Even if the chance for this to happen is like 3%, it's still possible.
but since this card is warlock only, we won't see it much anyway i guess
This is incorrect and I don't know why people keep saying it. How is it not a downside if you burn a random card? Every time your opponent burns a random card they go one stop closer to that "needed combo card", such as an Auctioneer.
You could burn their Auctioneer or you could push them one turn closer to it, in fact the latter is more likely.
Lets say you play 100 games against a deck with 5 very important cards. If your opponent draws fewer of them during a game they have significantly lower chance of winning.
On average games go for 14 turns. Your opponent draws 20 cards including 3.33 important ones on average.
Now imagine you play 100 more games, but this time you put Gnomeferatu into your deck. Let's say you play one Gnomeferatu each game. How many important cards will your opponent draw on average after 20 drawn cards? It was 3.33 when you wasn't playing Gnomeferatu and it's 3.33 per game when you do play it every game. It's not even 1% less, it's exactly the same (unless your opponent goes to fatigue, and he/she doesn't because you play warlock).
You are literally, LITERALLY making up statistics. There are so many flaws here besides. It's FINE if he draws 3.33 (made up fucking number) important cards. I know he is short one execute or both now that he has used one. For that specific game that information IS important. Further more it lowers his chance to draw the other execute. Which is valuable information for that specific game. I pointed out the actual issues with this card, but making up numbers and ignoring the specific information you gather and resource you burn for a specific game is really, really amazing mind gymnastics.
But since you are into math lets look at this shall we. 30 cards per deck, opponent starts the round with three and a draw, leaving 26 in his deck. Assuming both of his Frostbolt are in his deck (a middling card so I can't be accused of creating a dream scenario) his chance to draw one on his next draw is 2 in 26 or roughly 7.7%. You coin out Gnomeferatu. You burn a frost bolt. He now has 25 cards in his deck and assuming his other frost bolt is not in hand his chance of drawing that Frostbolt is now 1/25 or 4%. Nearly half of what it was. The nearly half chance lost of drawing that card is pretty much true at any point of the game as long as both cards are in the deck.
I don't think I have to point out that if he uses a Frostbolt and you burn the other that his chance of drawing one is now 0%, You can probably figure that out. It is mage though so it's just as possible for him to random into such, but you can be assured that he isn't drawing any.
The point of the card isn't to remove all his good shit, the point of the card is to destroy a resource and then to gain information from that so you can know how to better fight the rest of that game. Sometimes you get something good, sometimes you get some meh, others you destroy something really bad and screw yourself over. But any information you can gather, especially when it involves what resources your opponent has available can be valuable.
You shouldn't be looking at how many useful cards he drew and how many you destroyed over the course of 100 games. The questions should be how many times did me destroying a resource get information that was useful enough to help me win. A questions whose answer is very much up in the air in my opinion.
The worst case, it's just a 2/3 and you burn a random card. But this won't make you lose the game.
On the other hand, if you burn a specific, needed combo card, maybe an Auctioneer when your opponent was waiting for this top deck with a full hand of spells, then you just win the game. Even if the chance for this to happen is like 3%, it's still possible.
but since this card is warlock only, we won't see it much anyway i guess
This is incorrect and I don't know why people keep saying it. How is it not a downside if you burn a random card? Every time your opponent burns a random card they go one stop closer to that "needed combo card", such as an Auctioneer.
You could burn their Auctioneer or you could push them one turn closer to it, in fact the latter is more likely.
Even if, it doesn't make you lose the game just because your opponent drew the card he needed 1 turn earlier. He still needs to play the card. But losing a key card entirely can make you lose the game. The upside of this card is greater than it's downside. With a neutral tag, this card would have caused a lot of tears.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
You seem to not understand that playing this card doesn't decrease the chance for your opponent to draw any specific card.
Knowledge about any specific card in your opponent hand/deck is only useful if you can make different play because of it. People are obsessed with exact probability of drawing a card. it's useless too unless it can change your play. Twisting Nether example is the best case scenario that most players won't benefit from anyway (they would play Twisting the first time they think it's a good play anyway)
The reason why this card is good:
The worst case, it's just a 2/3 and you burn a random card. But this won't make you lose the game.
On the other hand, if you burn a specific, needed combo card, maybe an Auctioneer when your opponent was waiting for this top deck with a full hand of spells, then you just win the game. Even if the chance for this to happen is like 3%, it's still possible.
but since this card is warlock only, we won't see it much anyway i guess
If only the death hero character will be good.
whishful thinking.
It could be fine in Warlock if it were a demon.
Lets say you play 100 games against a deck with 5 very important cards. If your opponent draws fewer of them during a game they have significantly lower chance of winning.
On average games go for 14 turns. Your opponent draws 20 cards including 3.33 important ones on average.
Now imagine you play 100 more games, but this time you put Gnomeferatu into your deck. Let's say you play one Gnomeferatu each game. How many important cards will your opponent draw on average after 20 drawn cards? It was 3.33 when you wasn't playing Gnomeferatu and it's 3.33 per game when you do play it every game. It's not even 1% less, it's exactly the same (unless your opponent goes to fatigue, and he/she doesn't because you play warlock).
Everyone ripping this card, except those who are for some reason butt hurt about it, will play this and laugh their tails every time it works out positively. Also, the rage this will cause will be awesome.
I don't know about standard, but people are underestimating this one in wild.
I can see a deck in wild running 2 Deathlord, 2 Dirty rat and 2 of these with a bunch of removal, being annoying as hell
Priest ????????