Execute nerf is a really intelligent one. It punishes tempo warrior without affecting control.
I had initially put this as my worst but I hadn't thought about the effect on tempo warrior vs control.
In my mind I was thinking... well if I'm using execute in control warrior who cares if it's 1 mana higher? But I think you're totally right that 1 mana execute is one reason Tempo Warrior was able to thrive.
I think my larger point however is that even Tempo Warrior hasn't really been much of a problem on ladder for me and there seem to be other areas of the game that might need more attention but I certainly don't mind the change and I can see how it is beneficial.
I liked all the nerfs actually I think Blizzard did very well in nerfing those cards..
people complaining about rockbiter don't see how easily shamans deal with your board efficiently with 4 1 mana 3 damage spells.. it was really too much...
at 2 mana it keeps it's burst potential.. but makes shaman less safe early game.
I liked all the nerfs actually I think Blizzard did very well in nerfing those cards..
people complaining about rockbiter don't see how easily shamans deal with your board efficiently with 4 1 mana 3 damage spells.. it was really too much...
at 2 mana it keeps it's burst potential.. but makes shaman less safe early game.
Totally agree. That's always been one of my biggest beefs with Shaman. It's not fair how easily they can lay down huge early threats and effortlessly wipe your board at the same time.
Yogg is for the obvious reasons that it was making HS incredibly not fun and uninteractive to play. Abusive I tend to like as Aggro cards should be balanced compared to higher cost cards and this was a broken card in the evergreen set of all things. Complaining it invalidates aggro is fairly silly. Aggro decks aren't going to stop working because 1 of the incredible variety of early game cards that are under costed got nerfed. Maybe more balanced, but not ineffective. Rather all the abusive nerf is going to change is that Aggro decks may actually use the variety of cheap still under costed aggro cards from future sets, and the meta isn't going to be auto-include abusive till the end of time.
Worst: Charge
Execute I tend to like as it punishes tempo more bordering on aggro warrior decks but doesn't really influence control, and if they had not nerfed charge would have been a nice slight nerf to OTK decks. However, as they've nerfed charge and not kept the 2 attack bonus they've essentially ruined an archetype and the card is still probably trash.
Hope's-End is a fitting name because you can see your win before he drops the rng fest and steals your earned victory, love the nerf.
Rockbitter weapon can't avoid taunt, doesn't benefit from spell damage and can harm your face BUT it was cheap and is ok with windfury, it was never considered broken before shamans started having a aggro deck despite the doomhammer+rockbitter combo being well known, it's a useless nerf, the shaman cards will rotate and will leave shamans with an even weaker classic collection.
Tottaly agree! People that agree with nerf dont know shamans before LOE/WOG...
I'd be curious to look at those 20 Yogg replays posted by Strife and see how many would have been aborted by Yogg's death/transformation and when it actually happens in the sequence. Would have yielded wildly different results i'm sure!
Rockbiter for the reasons many have listed throughout this thread, and Charge because I feel it was overnerfed. Simply adding the "can't attack heroes" would've been enough and allowed Charge to still be a useful tool for trading up.
Best: Execute and Tuskarr
Again, for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
Then there's Yogg. As I said in the Yogg nerf thread they should've increased Yogg's health to 7 so that it could survive most direct damage spells it cast on itself. Maybe even make it a 5/7 like N'zoth. Also, the fact that the overload is now going to carry over to the player. That's just bullshit. If Yogg stops casting when it dies/etc then that means Yogg is definitely casting the spells and the overload shouldn't affect the player at all. I also saw someone suggest making it where Yogg couldn't cast non-targeted spells (secrets, Flamestrike, CotW) and that seems like it could've kept Yogg from being a win condition while still allowing it to exist in fun and somewhat competitive decks. Or they could've just banned it in tournaments. No matter what the case is there are a lot of superior choices they could've made imo.
IMHO: all the nerf were right. But while the most of the cards have been depowered, two have turn into crap: yogg and charge.
I think that yogg was impossibile to be nerfed into a FAIR card. Before could be or really good or really bad. Of course a card that could literally steal a win wasnt nice. Now why on earth should i play a 10 mana card that it could cast polymorph on itself as first spell and and my turn? Yes, some lucky guy will still steal victory with yogg, but most of the times will be played and will make you die faster. It just should have never been printed. It's been fun for sure (somehow i remember more the crazy yogg that made me win rather than the ones of my opponents who killed me).
The second card that turned into shit is charge, that since i started playing HS this june i saw only in worgen OTK deck (deck that i even used for a while,btw). Ok, it wasnt the strongest deck ever, but OTK decks are not a good thing in any tcg (and i used to play YGO, where 80% of decks were otk). Also, who knows, maybe it would have create a problem with some of the future cards in the next expansion.
In conclusion: im glad of all nerfs (even if rock bitter weapon and tuskarr are both Staples of my witch totem deck...i'll find a way to keep playing it). Hope we're gonna move into a meta of control and skilled decks :)
nerf to rockbiter is really bad. cus it's a buff and thats the downside of the card that makes it 1 mana. just look at freaking frost bolt it's a nuke that also freeze the target. nerfing rockbiter is just plain stupid
Yeah, except with Al Akir & Doomhammer it does double dmg - that was the whole point of why the card needed nerf in the first place.
Absolutely! This card is a now a worse darkbomb but that's ok because it can be paired with windfury! And Windfury cards are everywheeere! Look at all those windfury cards that people play atm: Doomhammer.
Huh... well doomhammer is everywhere, surely that must warrant a nerf to rockbiter, right?
Frankly, I think a doomhammer nerf would've been fine. If you remember pre-WotOG, shaman was complete trash, and even now it still has the worst basic set. Now one of shaman's best basic cards has been nerfed badly and after the rotation shaman will be trash all over again. Rockbiter was used in a lot of shaman archetypes, and was one of its only good sources of early game removal. Meanwhile, doomhammer is being used in all of one archetype, the aggressive one. The reasoning behind this nerf seems off for some reason.
I was initially upset about the execute nerf, being a long term control warrior player, but in control warrior, that extra one mana is nothing. This is a perfect way to stop the quick removal of dragon and tempo warriors, while still leaving a powerful tool for control. I have to say, the abusive nerf is poorly done. The problem with abusive has always been the ability to give another minion +2 attack, allowing 1 drops to trade into 4 or 5 drops, not the stats. This nerf does almost nothing to solve the problem abusive poses. Finally, the yogg nerf makes me really sad. I lose games to yogg a lot, and rarely win with him, but this nerf makes him unplayable, and I am going to miss him for sure. I think he should have just been banned from tournaments and left unchanged. He'll take a lot of fun with him as he crawls back into the pool of bad, unplayable legendaries.
Charge is the next worst. It just completely kills OTK decks.
It's almost as if they don't want OTK in the game, or something?!
I don't think OTK warrior was ever a problem deck. You can tech in a few taunts and just play them at the right times to counter any face push. Sure, when games go long, you will likely lose, but with all the aggro decks right now, I don't think that's a concern. They need to pull the game away from it's aggro-heavy state before OTK potential should be nerfed.
Best: CotW. It should be 10. How Tuskarr even got printed is beyond me but I've stopped trying to understand blizzard lately.
Worst: Execute, Rockbiter.
Execute comes with a disadvantage and this makes absolutley no sense to me. The increase will make tons of difference in the early game but blizzard obviously want ppl to go face and give up on control warrior. Either that or they want ppl to buy new expansions that replaces this staple card.
Rockbiter wasn't the problem. Doomhammer IS the problem.
It's obvious you never played warrior
The nerf to execute doesn't affect much, they almost always have spare mana to use it.
This is a nerf to tempo warrior (dragon, etc) they needed it to keep their board and they often don't have the extra mana
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Execute nerf is a really intelligent one. It punishes tempo warrior without affecting control.
I liked all the nerfs actually I think Blizzard did very well in nerfing those cards..
people complaining about rockbiter don't see how easily shamans deal with your board efficiently with 4 1 mana 3 damage spells.. it was really too much...
at 2 mana it keeps it's burst potential.. but makes shaman less safe early game.
Best: Yogg, and tuskarr totemic due to the randomness of the effects.
Worse: abusive sergeant due to it being an iconic card that was useful for trading up.
Best: Yogg-Saron, Abusive Sergeant
Yogg is for the obvious reasons that it was making HS incredibly not fun and uninteractive to play. Abusive I tend to like as Aggro cards should be balanced compared to higher cost cards and this was a broken card in the evergreen set of all things. Complaining it invalidates aggro is fairly silly. Aggro decks aren't going to stop working because 1 of the incredible variety of early game cards that are under costed got nerfed. Maybe more balanced, but not ineffective. Rather all the abusive nerf is going to change is that Aggro decks may actually use the variety of cheap still under costed aggro cards from future sets, and the meta isn't going to be auto-include abusive till the end of time.
Worst: Charge
Execute I tend to like as it punishes tempo more bordering on aggro warrior decks but doesn't really influence control, and if they had not nerfed charge would have been a nice slight nerf to OTK decks. However, as they've nerfed charge and not kept the 2 attack bonus they've essentially ruined an archetype and the card is still probably trash.
I'd be curious to look at those 20 Yogg replays posted by Strife and see how many would have been aborted by Yogg's death/transformation and when it actually happens in the sequence. Would have yielded wildly different results i'm sure!
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Best: All of them.
Worst: None. Card nerfs give breathing room for other cards to be printed and more decks to be played. The more nerfs, the better.
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Worst: Rockbiter and Charge
Rockbiter for the reasons many have listed throughout this thread, and Charge because I feel it was overnerfed. Simply adding the "can't attack heroes" would've been enough and allowed Charge to still be a useful tool for trading up.
Best: Execute and Tuskarr
Again, for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
Then there's Yogg. As I said in the Yogg nerf thread they should've increased Yogg's health to 7 so that it could survive most direct damage spells it cast on itself. Maybe even make it a 5/7 like N'zoth. Also, the fact that the overload is now going to carry over to the player. That's just bullshit. If Yogg stops casting when it dies/etc then that means Yogg is definitely casting the spells and the overload shouldn't affect the player at all. I also saw someone suggest making it where Yogg couldn't cast non-targeted spells (secrets, Flamestrike, CotW) and that seems like it could've kept Yogg from being a win condition while still allowing it to exist in fun and somewhat competitive decks. Or they could've just banned it in tournaments. No matter what the case is there are a lot of superior choices they could've made imo.
IMHO: all the nerf were right. But while the most of the cards have been depowered, two have turn into crap: yogg and charge.
I think that yogg was impossibile to be nerfed into a FAIR card. Before could be or really good or really bad. Of course a card that could literally steal a win wasnt nice. Now why on earth should i play a 10 mana card that it could cast polymorph on itself as first spell and and my turn? Yes, some lucky guy will still steal victory with yogg, but most of the times will be played and will make you die faster. It just should have never been printed. It's been fun for sure (somehow i remember more the crazy yogg that made me win rather than the ones of my opponents who killed me).
The second card that turned into shit is charge, that since i started playing HS this june i saw only in worgen OTK deck (deck that i even used for a while,btw). Ok, it wasnt the strongest deck ever, but OTK decks are not a good thing in any tcg (and i used to play YGO, where 80% of decks were otk). Also, who knows, maybe it would have create a problem with some of the future cards in the next expansion.
In conclusion: im glad of all nerfs (even if rock bitter weapon and tuskarr are both Staples of my witch totem deck...i'll find a way to keep playing it). Hope we're gonna move into a meta of control and skilled decks :)
Best: Yogg-Saron. Hate playing against this card every time, regardless of whether or not it wins/loses the game.
Worst: Don't really have one. The rest seem fine to me.
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Best: CotW, for 8 manas is broken as hell, for 9 still very strong but ok.
Worst: Rockbiter, after rotation shaman will sink in suck tier again, your classic set never was the problem.
Best- Tuskarr Totemic, Charge, Abusive Sergeant
Worst-Yogg
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Least Favorite Cards of All Time: Jade Idol , Divine Favor , Counterspell , Resurrect ,Mecha'thun , Eternal Servitude ,
Best: Tuskarr, CotW, Rockbiter, Execute.
Worst: Yogg
I was initially upset about the execute nerf, being a long term control warrior player, but in control warrior, that extra one mana is nothing. This is a perfect way to stop the quick removal of dragon and tempo warriors, while still leaving a powerful tool for control. I have to say, the abusive nerf is poorly done. The problem with abusive has always been the ability to give another minion +2 attack, allowing 1 drops to trade into 4 or 5 drops, not the stats. This nerf does almost nothing to solve the problem abusive poses. Finally, the yogg nerf makes me really sad. I lose games to yogg a lot, and rarely win with him, but this nerf makes him unplayable, and I am going to miss him for sure. I think he should have just been banned from tournaments and left unchanged. He'll take a lot of fun with him as he crawls back into the pool of bad, unplayable legendaries.