So I know that Rogue, Paladin, Warlock, and Druid are all on radar of being hated for having decks that all have really high winrates, but honestly, I feel like the current meta is absurdly healthy. Out of 9 classes, 7 of them have a deck that currently has a winrate that is above 55%. Not only that, but in HCT Buenos Aires, all 9 classes saw some play with atleast 1 deck. Just going off of the Hearthpwn Top Decks thing, there are 8 decks with a unique name (didn't check the lists but I'm going to assume that they are different enough). This leads me to my question, is this meta truly balanced? Like sure there is no strong priest or warrior deck right now (atleast that has a 55%+ winrate, I guess because control decks have a lower winrate?), but the rest of the classes feel like they are mostly balanced.
Opinions?
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I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Im having a really high winrate with mecha'thun priest, so I would add that to your list aswell. I like this developing meta!
Not doubting that you have a high winrate, but it's definitely possible to have a deck with a bad winrate yet still have people be successful with it. I guess in my original post I should specify that people are seeing success with all sorts of decks that the "off meta" classes have too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I think everything this meta has shown so far was good, except for a good Priest deck. Priest really needs some love, whereas people just need to find the right deck for Warrior, good expansion in my oppinion
The problem I have is that Boomsday literally changed nothing. lol, It's still all the same decks we had before basically with EleGiggle (giggling inventor) added to them, that's what happens when blizzard release ridiculously overpowered sets like kobolds and frozen throne, the following sets can't compete, I was hoping the Boomsday set would have had more impact by now but it really hasn't, so far.....and I hate to say this but seems even worse than witchwood was. lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
early days of expansion are still going on, and we can expect that only a handful of decks survive the perfecting process. while this diversity and all is fine, once we see what counters who and how successful on a good scale I expect most of the 'fresh' decks to disappear. there's also the problem of a lot of decks using a minimum number of Boomsday cards.
I'm more worried that we're entering a Gadgetzan 2.0 of rock paper scissors again. for example, they gave Warlock the Demonic Project card, and they gave Druid everything they could ever want for OTK or Togwaggle, and they talk of this in an interview. it's the horrible idea of a self-correcting and easy (for them) to control meta, in my opinion a very unhealthy way to run things.
I'm afraid we're heading into the "I either have a 10% or 90% to win match" experience again because of this philosophy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
I do agree that this is a really healthy meta, there are tons of viable options and even some meme decks have some viable ladder use. I remember sometime in witchwood when an HCT tournament first had 100% class participation, and that was an amazing sight. Now that almost every HCT tournament is having 100% class participation, it's truly an amazing sight (although I think some people are getting used to that fact by now). I just feel like that druid needs to be toned down because there's right now an unofficial rule that you need a druid deck in your line up.
Although for my own opinion, I'm just not a huge fan of the meta, and that's only in my opinion. I think what Blizzard has done is pretty good, I just don't like combo decks being meta. I'm currently rank 5, and there are so many OTK decks. Although it has been dying down a bit, I still find a lot of combo decks... and I like being able to play control and value decks... which can't exist when stuff like mecha'thun meme decks exist in these rank floors. Also druids are basically combo decks in disguise as control decks.
Basically I think it's a great meta, just not my favorite personal meta.
I don't think we really need that though. Sure combo decks can beat a lot of control decks because it's locked to warlock only, but plenty of decks don't struggle against these decks. Giving control decks too many ways to counter combo decks would only eliminate them from the meta.
In my opinion the issue is not how little control decks have to combat combo decks and more so in that control decks lack actual win conditions other than taking other decks to fatigue. Right now the only dominant control deck in my opinion is Evenlock because it actually plays minions with the goal of actually killing the enemy. Sure the super defensive control decks win against aggro decks, but you can't expect decks like this to be a deck that beats all types of decks since that would just imbalance the game more. Traditionally, aggro beats combo, combo beats control and control beats aggro and I think it's fine if some decks have "unwinnable match ups" due to how the deck is made.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
i liked witchwood meta a little bit better because there weren't 3 mana 8/8s running around but i don't mind this meta, every meta that has a healthy mix of different archetypes is good in my book, and so far we've got control(shudderwock shamman is control !!! not a combo deck you are playing a linearly progressive win condition, not doing a combo. fffs guys stop complaining that there are no control decks just because you can't torture your opponent until he loses to fatigue damage and have no other backup plan or win condition other than complaining at a forum !!!!!) , aggro and combo.
Unpopular opinion but this meta is way better than un'goro, because un'goro would have sucked monkey balls if it wasn't for the release of Tar Creeper and Primordial Drake, yes un'goro had a so called 17 decks meta paradise but around 90% of those decks were aggro decks, like during those times i even had a friend that never complained about aggro ever since beta times tell me "don't you think this meta is too much aggro??
and i honestly get a smile on my face every time i'm playing against an evenlock a togwaggle druid, a hadronox druid, or one of the many different builds of non-zoo warlock because you know what? i can't remember the last time where more than one non-aggro-non-reno decks were strong, because there isn't, sure we had Jade druid. cubelock, and razakus priest dominated metas but they were pretty much the only good non-aggro decks during their respective primes.
I started my grind to 5 yesterday, and it seems that almost everyone is playing control/combo now. In 15 games I only saw two aggro decks! At first it was boring, but then I switched to Deathtrattle Hunter to punish Druid. Pretty fun meta if you can counter it
People complain about aggro but it is needed, otherwise we would be living in a mecha'thun/ apm priest hell. There are still too many match ups that feel completely unwinnable thanks to Blizzard just leaving every control class without hand disruption except for warlock. Other than that I think it is still a good meta. The really cancerous decks are bad enough to where they don't ruin the entire meta. We need more disruption though. Fatigue is the only avenue warrior has, and yet Blizzard left them stranded again. Maybe they are afraid of odd warrior being too strong with out things like Mecha'thun and Togwaggle around but almost 0% chance to win when you are playing warrior feels miserable. It's not a good way to balance it imo. It just leads to autoconcede and wasted time.
I don't want a control meta by any means, but a meta where playing control and being able to have a fighting chance against the entire field would be nice. Unfavorable matches are healthy, but not so unfavorable that you can't win. That is just poor design.
I started my grind to 5 yesterday, and it seems that almost everyone is playing control/combo now. In 15 games I only saw two aggro decks! At first it was boring, but then I switched to Deathtrattle Hunter to punish Druid. Pretty fun meta if you can counter it
Would you mind me asking what rank you are right now? Last couple of days I've gone from 9-5 and literally half the decks I faced were aggro, and as soon as I hit 5 I faced a metric ton of combo decks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
in my opinion, we need a card like Dirty Rat and Loatheb permanently added to classic. I don't mean literally those two cards as they're basically too good, but a weaker version for sure. if this happened, then we could still have Freeze Mage, Raging Worgen and possibly old Grim Patron survive without nerfs. by only giving Warlock a card that achieves such disruption, you risk the same problem we had when Kazakus was introduced ; why play a control deck when you can't run Demonic Project?
as for the meta, at lower ranks I just encounter aggros, at high ranks all I see is Druids and Warlocks that are hunting those Druids. I am not seeing something like Control Mage or Control Priest because they can't respond to Druid and they're not that amazing vs Warlock anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
It's in a great state. Every archetype gets its love. You can play everything from aggro to fatigue. Sadly people still complain about aggro or decks that they don't enjoy but at least everyone can play whatever they want and have success with it.
I'm not having much fun with it to be honest. Mecha'thun was fun to try for first couple days as well as some mechs but now it's just turned into an aggro fest.
I would go so far as to say that the meta isn't anywhere close to being settled. And I think that once it does, we'll see some weekly rotation like we did last meta.
There are a handful of decks that look like they should always be around the top tiers: - Even Warlock - Zoo Warlock - Combo Druid (Maly and/or Tog and/or both) - Deathrattle Hunter - Odd Paladin - Quest Rogue - Odd Rogue
There's a lot of experimentation going on in the rest of the classes/decktypes and I'm not sure where they'll end up. Control Warrior is still figuring itself out. Priest has room to experiment. Shaman isn't sure what direction of the many it has is best. There is room for a lot of Tempo decks out there like Spiteful Druid. Control Paladin is a thing that's starting to happen. Token Druid is going through some reinvention. Control Warlock has some positive ideas.
The only class that I am worried for is Mage. Burn Mage needs Quest Rogue to be offender #1, which means we will see another balance patch. Big Mage just can't get it done against too many midrange and control decks.
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So I know that Rogue, Paladin, Warlock, and Druid are all on radar of being hated for having decks that all have really high winrates, but honestly, I feel like the current meta is absurdly healthy. Out of 9 classes, 7 of them have a deck that currently has a winrate that is above 55%. Not only that, but in HCT Buenos Aires, all 9 classes saw some play with atleast 1 deck. Just going off of the Hearthpwn Top Decks thing, there are 8 decks with a unique name (didn't check the lists but I'm going to assume that they are different enough). This leads me to my question, is this meta truly balanced? Like sure there is no strong priest or warrior deck right now (atleast that has a 55%+ winrate, I guess because control decks have a lower winrate?), but the rest of the classes feel like they are mostly balanced.
Opinions?
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I preferred meta before this expansion, now its all infested with aggro again...
Im having a really high winrate with mecha'thun priest, so I would add that to your list aswell. I like this developing meta!
Not doubting that you have a high winrate, but it's definitely possible to have a deck with a bad winrate yet still have people be successful with it. I guess in my original post I should specify that people are seeing success with all sorts of decks that the "off meta" classes have too.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I think everything this meta has shown so far was good, except for a good Priest deck. Priest really needs some love, whereas people just need to find the right deck for Warrior, good expansion in my oppinion
T-SERIES IS GOING DOWN
Just kidding, i am having a ton of fun. For now at least.
The problem I have is that Boomsday literally changed nothing. lol, It's still all the same decks we had before basically with EleGiggle (giggling inventor) added to them, that's what happens when blizzard release ridiculously overpowered sets like kobolds and frozen throne, the following sets can't compete, I was hoping the Boomsday set would have had more impact by now but it really hasn't, so far.....and I hate to say this but seems even worse than witchwood was. lol
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
early days of expansion are still going on, and we can expect that only a handful of decks survive the perfecting process. while this diversity and all is fine, once we see what counters who and how successful on a good scale I expect most of the 'fresh' decks to disappear. there's also the problem of a lot of decks using a minimum number of Boomsday cards.
I'm more worried that we're entering a Gadgetzan 2.0 of rock paper scissors again. for example, they gave Warlock the Demonic Project card, and they gave Druid everything they could ever want for OTK or Togwaggle, and they talk of this in an interview. it's the horrible idea of a self-correcting and easy (for them) to control meta, in my opinion a very unhealthy way to run things.
I'm afraid we're heading into the "I either have a 10% or 90% to win match" experience again because of this philosophy.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
I do agree that this is a really healthy meta, there are tons of viable options and even some meme decks have some viable ladder use. I remember sometime in witchwood when an HCT tournament first had 100% class participation, and that was an amazing sight. Now that almost every HCT tournament is having 100% class participation, it's truly an amazing sight (although I think some people are getting used to that fact by now). I just feel like that druid needs to be toned down because there's right now an unofficial rule that you need a druid deck in your line up.
Although for my own opinion, I'm just not a huge fan of the meta, and that's only in my opinion. I think what Blizzard has done is pretty good, I just don't like combo decks being meta. I'm currently rank 5, and there are so many OTK decks. Although it has been dying down a bit, I still find a lot of combo decks... and I like being able to play control and value decks... which can't exist when stuff like mecha'thun meme decks exist in these rank floors. Also druids are basically combo decks in disguise as control decks.
Basically I think it's a great meta, just not my favorite personal meta.
meta would be good if a Demonic Project as neutral existed.
I don't think we really need that though. Sure combo decks can beat a lot of control decks because it's locked to warlock only, but plenty of decks don't struggle against these decks. Giving control decks too many ways to counter combo decks would only eliminate them from the meta.
In my opinion the issue is not how little control decks have to combat combo decks and more so in that control decks lack actual win conditions other than taking other decks to fatigue. Right now the only dominant control deck in my opinion is Evenlock because it actually plays minions with the goal of actually killing the enemy. Sure the super defensive control decks win against aggro decks, but you can't expect decks like this to be a deck that beats all types of decks since that would just imbalance the game more. Traditionally, aggro beats combo, combo beats control and control beats aggro and I think it's fine if some decks have "unwinnable match ups" due to how the deck is made.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
i liked witchwood meta a little bit better because there weren't 3 mana 8/8s running around but i don't mind this meta, every meta that has a healthy mix of different archetypes is good in my book, and so far we've got control(shudderwock shamman is control !!! not a combo deck you are playing a linearly progressive win condition, not doing a combo. fffs guys stop complaining that there are no control decks just because you can't torture your opponent until he loses to fatigue damage and have no other backup plan or win condition other than complaining at a forum !!!!!) , aggro and combo.
Unpopular opinion but this meta is way better than un'goro, because un'goro would have sucked monkey balls if it wasn't for the release of Tar Creeper and Primordial Drake, yes un'goro had a so called 17 decks meta paradise but around 90% of those decks were aggro decks, like during those times i even had a friend that never complained about aggro ever since beta times tell me "don't you think this meta is too much aggro??
and i honestly get a smile on my face every time i'm playing against an evenlock a togwaggle druid, a hadronox druid, or one of the many different builds of non-zoo warlock because you know what? i can't remember the last time where more than one non-aggro-non-reno decks were strong, because there isn't, sure we had Jade druid. cubelock, and razakus priest dominated metas but they were pretty much the only good non-aggro decks during their respective primes.
I started my grind to 5 yesterday, and it seems that almost everyone is playing control/combo now. In 15 games I only saw two aggro decks! At first it was boring, but then I switched to Deathtrattle Hunter to punish Druid. Pretty fun meta if you can counter it
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
People complain about aggro but it is needed, otherwise we would be living in a mecha'thun/ apm priest hell. There are still too many match ups that feel completely unwinnable thanks to Blizzard just leaving every control class without hand disruption except for warlock. Other than that I think it is still a good meta. The really cancerous decks are bad enough to where they don't ruin the entire meta. We need more disruption though. Fatigue is the only avenue warrior has, and yet Blizzard left them stranded again. Maybe they are afraid of odd warrior being too strong with out things like Mecha'thun and Togwaggle around but almost 0% chance to win when you are playing warrior feels miserable. It's not a good way to balance it imo. It just leads to autoconcede and wasted time.
I don't want a control meta by any means, but a meta where playing control and being able to have a fighting chance against the entire field would be nice. Unfavorable matches are healthy, but not so unfavorable that you can't win. That is just poor design.
Would you mind me asking what rank you are right now? Last couple of days I've gone from 9-5 and literally half the decks I faced were aggro, and as soon as I hit 5 I faced a metric ton of combo decks.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
in my opinion, we need a card like Dirty Rat and Loatheb permanently added to classic. I don't mean literally those two cards as they're basically too good, but a weaker version for sure. if this happened, then we could still have Freeze Mage, Raging Worgen and possibly old Grim Patron survive without nerfs. by only giving Warlock a card that achieves such disruption, you risk the same problem we had when Kazakus was introduced ; why play a control deck when you can't run Demonic Project?
as for the meta, at lower ranks I just encounter aggros, at high ranks all I see is Druids and Warlocks that are hunting those Druids. I am not seeing something like Control Mage or Control Priest because they can't respond to Druid and they're not that amazing vs Warlock anyway.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
It's in a great state. Every archetype gets its love. You can play everything from aggro to fatigue. Sadly people still complain about aggro or decks that they don't enjoy but at least everyone can play whatever they want and have success with it.
Warlock and druid need to be massively nerfed (10 cards minimum) and maybe more cards will have a chance to see play.
Hard to new cards compete with the absolute broken power of UI, DK's, spellstone, defile, etc...
I'm not having much fun with it to be honest. Mecha'thun was fun to try for first couple days as well as some mechs but now it's just turned into an aggro fest.
I would go so far as to say that the meta isn't anywhere close to being settled. And I think that once it does, we'll see some weekly rotation like we did last meta.
There are a handful of decks that look like they should always be around the top tiers:
- Even Warlock
- Zoo Warlock
- Combo Druid (Maly and/or Tog and/or both)
- Deathrattle Hunter
- Odd Paladin
- Quest Rogue
- Odd Rogue
There's a lot of experimentation going on in the rest of the classes/decktypes and I'm not sure where they'll end up. Control Warrior is still figuring itself out. Priest has room to experiment. Shaman isn't sure what direction of the many it has is best. There is room for a lot of Tempo decks out there like Spiteful Druid. Control Paladin is a thing that's starting to happen. Token Druid is going through some reinvention. Control Warlock has some positive ideas.
The only class that I am worried for is Mage. Burn Mage needs Quest Rogue to be offender #1, which means we will see another balance patch. Big Mage just can't get it done against too many midrange and control decks.