Hearthpwn

Quote from SvizacCRO >>

You people don't understand that some players (me included) don't like control decks. I don't want to play 15-minute chess-Hearthstone games. I just want to win as fast as possible.

Those are all legitimate opinions. There are people who enjoy fast style of playing, some enjoy the opposite. It's all good.

After all that stuff about 'limiting design space' them printing a card like jade idol is hard to take!! I don't want this card rotated to wild, I want it gone. I don't care if it dominates the meta or not, it's a terrible terrible design. I'll be very sad if because if this card they kill miracle rogue, and other possible future miracles decks. I will be sad if they print more soft nerfs like TCB because of this unbelievably stupid card. Printing insane 1 and 2 drops is not on either, they've done that plenty already - just kill jade idol and move on.

I love Jade Druid.  Have since the start and will til it rotates out.  Haven't played much cause I got tired of the all mage/midrange (pally, huntard) but f it's doing well  I may play it again!

I like Jade Druid, and i think infinite Jade is an interesting design.

However, i've been playing a homemade Tempo Jade Rogue in Wild for a while now. And seeing how fast a Druid can build Jades, compared to me, made me think:

Problem with Jade Druid is not even infinite. Real threat is on how efficiently Jade Druid can lead the midgame.

Maybe a (2) cost Idol would slow the Jade building, while still being a threat for lategame.

But then again, there are other cards with potential to ruin the game that need even more attention...

Jade Idol is fine. It doesn't limit design space in any way. 

You know what does? Card draw engines, especially neutral ones. 

Quote from Rusery >>

Jade Idol is fine. It doesn't limit design space in any way. 

You know what does? Card draw engines, especially neutral ones. 

Quote from dW2005 >>

Quote from Rusery >>

Jade Idol is fine. It doesn't limit design space in any way. 

You know what does? Card draw engines, especially neutral ones. 

 1 mana 9/9 or more  played even a couple times a turn is fine? Mmkay.

Quote from GrandPatzer >>

I only see problem in the decks ability to playJade Idol multiple times withGadgetzan Auctioneer in the fatigue phases of the match. Rotating auctioneer to HOF could be a good option.

From a control warrior POW (mostly taunt this days), I personally never had too much concern about quest rogue, yeah I had a negative winrate against them, but you could still beat them with the rights removals at the right time. The problem with jade druid is that it's almost impossible to pull out a single win (I had a very few because I was extremely lucky, hero power targeting always face and rats pulling both auctioneers) even if you curve perfectly. It's unbelievable how jade druid manage to come from behind now even if your far ahead by turn 6 (in fact your only chance with taunt war is to rush sulfuras and pray), they still manage to create a bigger board than you made 7 f**** turn to create in one turn.

If you want to gain time just concede when you see one. I never had a problem with toughs matchups and it's part of the game, but here we are talking about a complete one sided match up that left you hopeless and I don't think that it's a good idea to punish that hard a deck choice. I mean against every others decks in the game, I have wins and losses, sometimes i'm favorite sometimes underdog, but anyway you still try to play the game. For this exact reason Jade druids should be nerfed: as their popularity increase they destroy the incentive to play control decks.

The only time where I recall such a bad match up (and so a wrong design in game mechanics imo) was with freeze mage against CW, even playing CW I just didn't like at all the fact that they had almost 0% chance to win against me, the game should not be designed like this

The worst part is people are bringing their 100% Standard lists to Wild, and having success. Yeah Quest Priest is good in Wild, but it still can't deal with endless growing minions.

Waiting until the card rotates is not a fix, they need to change the card. This coming from a Druid (and Rogue) main who absolutely hates where they've taken Druid since MSoG. Just the presence/existence of Jade Idol invalidates so many deck types, it's insane. Playing with the deck is no fun either imo.

Quote from Tn1_Seven >>

It's not the Jade mechanic in general that's the issue, it's Jade Idol - it still eludes me today how this card has escaped balancing changes repeatedly.

It killed any sort of tactful fatigue plays

It gave druid infinite minions

It has stupidly overpowered synergy with Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Nourish

It basically ruined any sort of 'fun' when facing against it with another slow deck... unless you get super lucky.

All that said, the only conclusion I can come up with as to why this card has repeatedly escaped nerfs is because one of the top devs plays it (and yes, I know how that sounds)

Quote from AbusingKel >>

Quote from Rusery >>

Jade Idol is fine. It doesn't limit design space in any way. 

You know what does? Card draw engines, especially neutral ones. 

I agree the problem truly lies in the ability to quickly cycle and play multiple, high-stat minions in one turn. However, this is exactly the issue I think of when I consider the phrase "limiting design space" because this one card (Jade Idol) limits the ability to ever design card draw into the class and neutral sets. It's literally the exact definition limiting design space, in my mind, at least. 

 

 

Just remove Auctioneer and give rogue new class card draw engine. Like 5 mana minion "draw a card each time your spell deal damage", and it will be ok.

Quote from AbusingKel >>

Quote from Rusery >>

Jade Idol is fine. It doesn't limit design space in any way. 

You know what does? Card draw engines, especially neutral ones. 

I agree the problem truly lies in the ability to quickly cycle and play multiple, high-stat minions in one turn. However, this is exactly the issue I think of when I consider the phrase "limiting design space" because this one card (Jade Idol) limits the ability to ever design card draw into the class and neutral sets. It's literally the exact definition limiting design space, in my mind, at least. 

 

 

Quote from Tn1_Seven >>

Quote from nocontrol1111 >>

Quote from Tn1_Seven >>

It's not the Jade mechanic in general that's the issue, it's Jade Idol - it still eludes me today how this card has escaped balancing changes repeatedly.

It killed any sort of tactful fatigue plays

It gave druid infinite minions

It has stupidly overpowered synergy with Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Nourish

It basically ruined any sort of 'fun' when facing against it with another slow deck... unless you get super lucky.

All that said, the only conclusion I can come up with as to why this card has repeatedly escaped nerfs is because one of the top devs plays it (and yes, I know how that sounds)

 Nope, Auctioneer is the only issue. I've played Jade Druid a lot and the consistency is given by Auctioneer. If it wasn't there, I wouldn't be winning half the games I've been playing because I wouldn't be drawing the answers I need. It also helps power up my Yogg, which also contributes to quite a few wins. You're too focused on a single card, but it turns out if you can't draw it over and over again it's pretty ok.

 I can see that. I've even suggested Gadgetzan Auctioneer be considered for the Hall of Fame, I don't think it's the ultimate culprit though, remove Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Druid will still find a way to make Jade Idol work, I wouldn't care its so easily fixed, all Blizzard has to do is change it so the spells that are shuffled cannot be reshuffled further and reduce the shuffle amount by 1, it would give them 2 extra Jades total as opposed to an infinite amount they can just mindlessly spam the board with. With a limited amount of Jades they'd actually have to think for a change.

Quote from AbusingKel >>

Quote from Rusery >>

Quote from AbusingKel >>

Quote from Rusery >>

Jade Idol is fine. It doesn't limit design space in any way. 

You know what does? Card draw engines, especially neutral ones. 

I agree the problem truly lies in the ability to quickly cycle and play multiple, high-stat minions in one turn. However, this is exactly the issue I think of when I consider the phrase "limiting design space" because this one card (Jade Idol) limits the ability to ever design card draw into the class and neutral sets. It's literally the exact definition limiting design space, in my mind, at least. 

 

 

 Druid never had or will have (decent) cycle for a good reason, so putting Jade Idolinto Druids arsenal was never going to be a problem for team5 designers going into the future. But who knows for sure.

Though, with that said, Neutral cards should never (IMO) reinforce an archetype so strongly that the decks win-condition is based around drawing/playing them. Its hard to root for Auctioneer when hes been abused constantly in a number of decks aiming to super-cycle cards since launch either.

If Auctioneer is sent off to Siberia, it wouldn't be the end of Jade Idol in the slightest. Its a good, well rounded deck thats got its niche spot against control and if curving well, can defeat great mid-range decks. 

The issue remains as long as Jade Idel remains, and that's the problem with the design of Idol. As long as it exists in it's current form, card draw for Malfy will be limited in how it works. Over time there WILL be more card draw added for druid. As long as idol exists as is, the card draw added for druid could make it broken again. 

they just have to remove Auctioneer from standart thats it 

Quote from madness69 >>

they just have to remove Auctioneer from standart thats it