Rogue is really good right now though I don't expect most players to see it. Rogue has always been the hardest class to play and with the resurgence of miracle, the games hardest deck, it seems even harder. As some one who has been playing Miracle Rogue on and off since it first appeared in vanilla hearthstone (even played it when it sucked after gadget nerf) I have been loving standard because Miracle Rogue is back in a big way and feels really good. That being said the nature of ladder right now makes most of the kinds of miracle decks that I would normally play (southsea faceless, and malygos) hard to play because they are just a little to slow to keep up with shaman and don't have quite enough board and removal to play the longer game either in most cases. This deck though fights for board a little more and looks more for tempo and finishes with cold bloods. It dominates zoo, warrior, control decks, and puts up a good fight against shaman though it still isn't a great matchup
Miracle does feel a little broken right now, especially with the right toxins in hand. I have faced soooo many miracle rogues that are able to draw their entire decks, remove all the enemy minons and stealth 2 buffed auctioneer and a 12/12 van cleef.... if more people played this deck, I think there would be more crying on the forums....
To be clear I am not calling for nerfs I just think that miracle rogue is one of the best decks around right now.
The thing is that most players try out miracle rogue and get their asses handed to them and go "this is terrible" and never play it again. Watching someone play it might seem like "oh this deck is broke" but its kind of like patron. If you know how to do it, it can be absolutely nuts but most people don't so its win rate stays fairly low and it never really seems extremely dominate.
I'm currently on my 10th straight win. I've ran into 6 aggro decks: 2 zoo, 3 shaman, and 1 weird hunter. The crazy thing is that I've won all 6 of them before turn 5. From concedes..
Vs. aggro you just all-in mulligan for Edwin. If you have coin + Edwin the game is over man. Aggro decks have 0 way to deal with a big Van Cleef with no silence, no bgh, easily removable taunts. It's an auto-win. Backstab, prep, cold blood, coin, so many things to combo him with. The first time it happened I thought I was just insanely lucky (I had the perfect hand and made an 18/18 van cleef on turn 4). But it turned out that it's pretty easy to throw-down at least an 8/8 before turn 5, which has won me the game vs. all these aggro decks that have no removal.
ATM not many face Shaman's are running hex; virtually none more than one. Hunter's mark (and hunter aggro in general) is a thing of the past, and ofc zoo never ran hard removal to begin with.
I really didn't want to post this information, but my mind is just so blown I had to share it. Did not expect this from miracle rogue.
Van Cleef is an auto win early on against most decks with the exception of priest witch calmly shadow word deaths.
That being said what the fuck was in your hand at turn 4 that you had a 18/18 van cleef??????????
I think the biggest I ever got a van cleef was like 16/16 late in the game.
I'm happy where Rogue's ended up. The Blade Flurry nerf was a tough pill to swallow, but now I have 5-6 Rogue decks that I'm having a blast playing and I feel a few of them are really strong. Was watching Ryzen take legend on stream earlier with Miracle Rogue and his winrate was in the 85% region, even with bad shaman matchups.
Did something similar to great success. Curious whats with the gang up and shadowstep? They seem uneeded.
I would put a huckster in there also another violet teacher because it makes good tempo. I would also put a tomb pillager in there. Other than that looks ok.
I'm happy where Rogue's ended up. The Blade Flurry nerf was a tough pill to swallow, but now I have 5-6 Rogue decks that I'm having a blast playing and I feel a few of them are really strong. Was watching Ryzen take legend on stream earlier with Miracle Rogue and his winrate was in the 85% region, even with bad shaman matchups.
I agree for the most part, though I still think blade flurry could have been nerfed in a more reasonable manner. The fact it doesn't hit face anymore doesn't bother me, but the mana cost is simply too restrictive to play at all. They could have kept the mana cost at two and I think it would be fine. Perhaps it would have seen play at 3 mana as well, but 4 is just way too high.
bladeflurry nerf.. Oil rogue was a tournament deck and well oil rotated out of standard so they shouldn't care because they statted they only balanced for standard but without oil nerfing blade flurry is pretty much pointless, if they wanted to nerf burst ehy could have easily just removed the face dmaage from it and allow it to be a board clear, you do have to have enough attack in your weapon for it to be efficient anyways so it usually burns 2 cards as a minimum weapon+flurry or Poison+flurry, Malygos rogue saw some success but it wasn't anything to write home about . thanks to this nerf rogue is now completely useless against aggro.
Master of disguise nerf..then again the only abuse i can see from older cards was Master of disguise+malganis but Mal'ganis rotated out and they are from different classes anyways, try to consistently get those two cards and see how it isn't possible to do it consistently or maybe hiding a questing adventurer, and well Mal'ganis rotated out, hiding the questing adventurer takes 7 mana because there's no way you can turn 3 adventurer and have it survive. and from the new cards the onyl ones worth hiding are Y'sharl and ragnaron lightlord but rogue has a hard tme reaching turn 10 and her cards are super anti-synergistic with Ysaarl due to the combo mechanic and Ragnaros the lighlord is the same deal as Mal'ganis..try to get a Paladin card in a rogue deck when not playing against paladin. Tbh i was waiting the day when master of disguise finally became viable but meeeh blizard just killed a card that wasn't used at all.
Master of Disguise is just stupid card design. Cards that don't have permanent Stealth shouldn't have permanent Stealth, just like how cards that don't have Charge shouldn't have Charge.
Blade Flurry shouldn't have hit face, that nerf seems fair to me. It should, however, have remained at 2-mana as Rogue needs the AoE. And therein lies Rogue's problem right now. Master of Disguise I'm pretty sure was only nerved so that they didn't have to worry about balancing around a card that's never used in the future.
Blade Flurry shouldn't have hit face, that nerf seems fair to me. It should, however, have remained at 2-mana as Rogue needs the AoE. And therein lies Rogue's problem right now. Master of Disguise I'm pretty sure was only nerved so that they didn't have to worry about balancing around a card that's never used in the future.
Yeah, this is the biggest issue with Rogue. Not only do a lot of Rogue cards play underwhelmingly unless you combo them (meaning you can't play them on curve most of the time), but other cards (like Blade Flurry or Raptor) only work if you have something to work with already, either in hand or on the board. Now, raising this cost up to 4-mana means that a Dagger Mastery + Deadly Poison + Blade Flurry is a 7-mana 3-damage AoE that also costs your 2nd attack from your weapon... maybe even the first, too.
Thanks for the feedback! I have been doing pretty great with the deck so far. Originally the Shadowstep's were in there to allow me to re-use my SI:Agent, but has show limited usefulness. I have taken out 1 Deadly Poison, both Defias Ringleader's, the Gang Up, and both Cutpurse 's for 2 Journey Below, another Violet Teacher, an Assassinate for C'Thun, and finally two Undercity Huckster's. Since adding this I have been winning more.
Blade Flurry shouldn't have hit face, that nerf seems fair to me. It should, however, have remained at 2-mana as Rogue needs the AoE. And therein lies Rogue's problem right now. Master of Disguise I'm pretty sure was only nerved so that they didn't have to worry about balancing around a card that's never used in the future.
Blade Flurry was stupid before. A 2-mana card with the same power as a Flamestrike most of the time, while also hitting face for stupid damage bursts that clears a boards... yeah..... I mostly play midrange decks, and Blade Flurry was just the bane of slower decks that relied on board presence (shaman, paladin, priest), so I think the nerf is perfect. The mana cast is big enough that it acts as a board clear like most classes have - with a condition, of course, but it also gives the card a bunch of potential that no other card has.
The funny thing is that Blade Flurry isn't a card that we miss.
I am actually running it in my deck as a replacement for a second Fan of Knives. As a former Warlock exclusive player, 4 Mana is perfectly reasonable for this type of conditional board clear - see Shadowflame. After Preparation it is 1 Mana!!! I totally agree with you - anyone complaining about the new Blade Flurry has no concept of how absolutely broken the old one was.
Rogue is top tier again because all the Gadgetzan Auctioneer answers have rotated out and Tomb Pillager is one of the best 4-drops in the game that synergizes with this broken card draw machine. Miracle rogue is top tier at the moment, and I'm honestly surprised about this. Blizzard tried to push a deathrattle style of deck for rogue and nerfed the class' second most broken card (Prep being the other) - but because of the lack of answers to a stealthed Auctioneer and the slower meta-game, rogue is dominating.
:)
Miracle being a top-tier deck scares me. I guess a positive thing is that rogue is actually viable again and those of us who do not have a golden Valeera should get to work :)
Yep, I was at 45 wins at launch. Now sitting at 86 ;) I am so happy I have switched to Rogue!
Rogue is really good right now though I don't expect most players to see it. Rogue has always been the hardest class to play and with the resurgence of miracle, the games hardest deck, it seems even harder. As some one who has been playing Miracle Rogue on and off since it first appeared in vanilla hearthstone (even played it when it sucked after gadget nerf) I have been loving standard because Miracle Rogue is back in a big way and feels really good. That being said the nature of ladder right now makes most of the kinds of miracle decks that I would normally play (southsea faceless, and malygos) hard to play because they are just a little to slow to keep up with shaman and don't have quite enough board and removal to play the longer game either in most cases. This deck though fights for board a little more and looks more for tempo and finishes with cold bloods. It dominates zoo, warrior, control decks, and puts up a good fight against shaman though it still isn't a great matchup
The thing is that most players try out miracle rogue and get their asses handed to them and go "this is terrible" and never play it again. Watching someone play it might seem like "oh this deck is broke" but its kind of like patron. If you know how to do it, it can be absolutely nuts but most people don't so its win rate stays fairly low and it never really seems extremely dominate.
I'm happy where Rogue's ended up. The Blade Flurry nerf was a tough pill to swallow, but now I have 5-6 Rogue decks that I'm having a blast playing and I feel a few of them are really strong. Was watching Ryzen take legend on stream earlier with Miracle Rogue and his winrate was in the 85% region, even with bad shaman matchups.
i still don't get the nerfs
bladeflurry nerf.. Oil rogue was a tournament deck and well oil rotated out of standard so they shouldn't care because they statted they only balanced for standard but without oil nerfing blade flurry is pretty much pointless, if they wanted to nerf burst ehy could have easily just removed the face dmaage from it and allow it to be a board clear, you do have to have enough attack in your weapon for it to be efficient anyways so it usually burns 2 cards as a minimum weapon+flurry or Poison+flurry, Malygos rogue saw some success but it wasn't anything to write home about . thanks to this nerf rogue is now completely useless against aggro.
Master of disguise nerf..then again the only abuse i can see from older cards was Master of disguise+malganis but Mal'ganis rotated out and they are from different classes anyways, try to consistently get those two cards and see how it isn't possible to do it consistently or maybe hiding a questing adventurer, and well Mal'ganis rotated out, hiding the questing adventurer takes 7 mana because there's no way you can turn 3 adventurer and have it survive. and from the new cards the onyl ones worth hiding are Y'sharl and ragnaron lightlord but rogue has a hard tme reaching turn 10 and her cards are super anti-synergistic with Ysaarl due to the combo mechanic and Ragnaros the lighlord is the same deal as Mal'ganis..try to get a Paladin card in a rogue deck when not playing against paladin. Tbh i was waiting the day when master of disguise finally became viable but meeeh blizard just killed a card that wasn't used at all.
Master of Disguise is just stupid card design. Cards that don't have permanent Stealth shouldn't have permanent Stealth, just like how cards that don't have Charge shouldn't have Charge.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Blade Flurry shouldn't have hit face, that nerf seems fair to me. It should, however, have remained at 2-mana as Rogue needs the AoE. And therein lies Rogue's problem right now. Master of Disguise I'm pretty sure was only nerved so that they didn't have to worry about balancing around a card that's never used in the future.
Thanks for the feedback! I have been doing pretty great with the deck so far. Originally the Shadowstep's were in there to allow me to re-use my SI:Agent, but has show limited usefulness. I have taken out 1 Deadly Poison, both Defias Ringleader's, the Gang Up, and both Cutpurse 's for 2 Journey Below, another Violet Teacher, an Assassinate for C'Thun, and finally two Undercity Huckster's. Since adding this I have been winning more.
Shadowcaster
"Shadow casting since 2016."
R.I.P Mill rogue.