⚙
Learn More
Cosmetics
Related Cards
Card Pools
✕
×
PopCard Settings
Click on the buttons to change the PopCard background.
Elements settings
Click on the button to hide or unhide popcard elements.
Click on the buttons to change the PopCard background.
Click on the button to hide or unhide popcard elements.
finally someone with their foots on the ground, this nerf is an advise "if you want your combo go off you need a new engine" in other games that is fair easy because of a masive draw engines, and rouge have it just need better tools for getting tempo.
the thing is after they killed the 3 card combo SS+SS+ leeroy, miracle wasn' a real combo deck, then people just use gadgetzan to gain CA over the enemy and win by burst you down with spells.
looking at future there is a new 3 card combo in the expasion who can exploit the conceal mecanic and draw nature of rogue you just need give them a body may be control minion based + card draw in form of minions
I liked to play Miracle, but I will trust Blizzard on this one. I prefer much more the actual meta ("omg hunter plz nerf undertaker") than the miracle meta from season 3 (not sure if was season 3, but was like "omg miracle solo play plz staph"). If this nerf is supose to prevent miracle everywhere in the new season, I'm fine with that.
Now say this nerf Killed rogue is a bit exagerated, considering we have no idea how the meta will be in the next couple of months.
The voice of reason.
I don't think Miracle is dead at all. The combo just goes off a little bit later. This means more time to collect spells. Combine this with Spare Parts and make your "Miracle" deck more minion heavy and not so reliable on the Auctioneer. Weak speels like Shiv can be removed and 1-ofs of the two new Spells help. They have more value. No need to draw 5 shitty cards from Auctioneer when you are happy with the same board effect with just 3 cards.
This is my idea on the new "Miracle", but actually you can't really call it Miracle anymore, it's more Control. The idea is to add minions and board presence that give you Spare Parts (Clockwork Gnome and Mechanical Yeti [also helps tremendously as a 4-drop]) so you have more minions and still spells. Remove some of the weaker spells (Shiv) and add more valuable ones (Sabotage and Tinker's Sharpsword Oil). Trade Prince Gallywix also helps to collect spells. Troggzor the Earthinator prevents the enemy from using spells (even Gallywix's Coin). Trade Prince Gallywix into Troggzor the Earthinator just sounds awesome. It's still work in progress though. Any feedback appreciated.
Other nice new cards:
- senti
Well the patch is here and Gadgetzan now costs one extra mana... How do you feel right now that you had time to try this new and unimproved version?
EDIT : had the time to play a couple of games, i just wanted to throw up. This extra turn is really what makes the difference. By the time you can play Gadgetzan and conceal it you're so low in life it's ridiculous. Most of the time you can't save the coin so late in game so you better pray to have a Prep to get a few draws from Gadgetzan.
And so far by turn 6 or 7 you had to spend most of your spells to control the board so it's not even relevant anymore if Gadgetzan survives. They really **** us good on that one!
I really hope the GvG cards will set things right a bit because right now i'll put Rogue aside until the release.
It is what I thought it sucks for aggro match ups but it really does not make the biggest difference against control. In fact it might be better when you play against priest/warrior because you get to draw a spell or 2 more, to get bigger draws. I kept my Gadgetzan in hand on mulligan with a prep against a Priest, with coin and waited til turn 6, drew about 8 cards and concealed.
I am Ozymandias, King of Kings
Miracle will never exist in the same way again, that's for sure. I think tempo is a very real possibility, we also get some nice stealth cards to buff up with cb and other things.
Yeah the Control match up didn't really changed, you would never always play Gadgetzan asap before so it didn't changed anything here.
They just have one extra turn to get Loatheb or a combo like Auchenai + Circle but you also have the opportunity to stack more spells in your hand so it pretty much balances out.
It's still terrible against Aggro though and since that's about 60-70% of the games that's very hard on us.
People fail to look at the bigger picture and see how this card limits printing cheap rouge spells in the future and how it will come into play with spare parts
Gadgetzan Auctioneer at (5) would be borderline broken with Spare Parts.
It's a fair "adjustment", Miracle will live!
- senti
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Card Design ChampionMeh, I hate Miracle rogue so I can only hope it actually is gone this time. I hate playing it, I hate playing against it and I don't find any aspect about that deck any fun whatsoever.
However, I've seen this exact same thread about miracle rogue more than once and unfortunately it always seems to slime it's way back into top tier. When we have a major tournament where miracle is nowhere to be seen, only then will I actually believe that it is no longer a viable rogue deck. Until then, I can't shake the feeling that miracle will still be around after GvG and probably beyond.
Nearly every deck relies mostly on neutral cards to carry it. What is a Handlock without giants or a zoo deck without its core value minions?
I agree with you. Let's see the archetypes :
- Aggro Rogue : why would I play it over Warlock or Hunter aggro decks ? Even Pally is stronger.
- Control : Druid, Priest, Warrior, Pally are all stronger
- Deathrattle Rogue : let's look at Priest or Hunter ...
- Secret Rogue : well, that one is not possible
- Mech Rogue : almost every other class got better cards for this
- Pirate Rogue and Mill Rogue : can be fun, will never be strong
- Miracle Rogue : and there we are, the only viable deck where Rogue is strong ... until now.
Blizzard nerfing Miracle would be OK if the enabled another archetype for Rogue. Look at the new cards : all lame but Galliwyx ... which is a Miracle card.
When Buzzard and UTH were nerfed, Hunter got compensation indirect buffs (Undertaker, Webspinner and Mad Scientist. Rogue got Anubar Ambusher can't play Undertaker/Mad Scientist properly).
If we start filling up the deck with legendaries in it won't it look like any Warrior Deck, a very good but rather expensive deck to be crafted. So far, Warrior is the only Class that not everybody can play right away because of it's steep cost and that's not "really" a problem. If it goes the same way with Rogue and it's the only efficient deck for the Class that would hurt the F2P status of the game real bad.
And we have 0 card draw from GvG, drawing has always been a problem with Rogue, Shiv, Fan of Knives are not enough. But playing Loot and Azure might be hard on the board presence with minions easily disposable or that trade badly for their cost.
I still believe that limiting the number of draws each turn with Gadgetzan was the correct move. Increasing the cost was a poor decision that has hurt the whole Rogue Class more than they might thought.
I would bet my bottom dollar that we're going to see spare parts miracle decks, across many classes.
And what does it has to do with Miracle?
The question here isn't what new deck will come out on top with GvG but rather can we still play Miracle with a 6 mana Gadgetzan in what will probably become a more full aggro meta than what it is right now...
By now we know all the cards, from that we can speculate a lot and saying that the Gadgetzan nerf has killed the only tier 1 archetype we had for Rogue class. Spare parts are interesting but you still rely on that 6 turn mana minion, that's very late in game. I would rather play Prep into Sprint right now than wait for Gadgetzan + Coin + Stealth (conceal or spare part that stealth).
No the fact is that i don't want to sound definitive or like the ultimate Rogue player on Earth (which i'm not) so people might argue with me (in a constructive way, which you're not doing btw).
Look at the new cards again, come back and if you still think its dead you have will never be good at this game. Miracle just got a ton of new cards that has synergy and some of them will be even more broken then auctioneer was.
Top 5 Legend every season. Twitch.tv/vbsof
Yes i believe it's dead in the current form.
There will probably be opportunities to build a Mech / Mimiron's Head that will work with some sort of Spare Part engine to feed Gazlowe.
Van Cleef is still scary strong in aggro builds. Turn 2 coin, backstab, Cleif is a 6/6. Turn 3 it gets even sillier. I dont think any other class can do that without some silly degree of randomness.
Preparation is not well positioned right now unless your planning on building a rouge that really wants to play sprint, but that may become a possibility in the future.