Hearthpwn

True there are a lot out there, I just haven't been getting matched against many of them recently.  Maybe lil' exorcist will be a must play from now on?

Quote from evazetv »

Quote from AsurHS »

miracle was the most broken deck and i wont miss it,hopefully its truly unviable now :)

do you like fighting hunter zoo people that don't have any choices to make and win by rng / what  cards they draw instead?

It's funny how many more decisions you have to actually make in zoo compared to miracle, at least when played at a high level.

Quote from darthjaeden »

Quote from protoaddict »

Van Cleef is still scary strong in aggro builds. Turn 2 coin, backstab, Cleif is a 6/6. Turn 3 it gets even sillier. I dont think any other class can do that without some silly degree of randomness.

Preparation is not well positioned right now unless your planning on building a rouge that really wants to play sprint, but that may become a possibility in the future.

Alright, lets prove you're wrong as hell. Chances of getting coin is 1/2, vancleef is 4/30 and backstab if u are running two is 1/5. So there is your silly degree of randomness :) U get a 6/6 VanCleef and do 6 dmg turn 3. And you are left with empty hand! Than u get silenced, SW:D, hunters marked and so on.

And thats a legendary card.. lets see what hunter can do with coin and common cards.

Turn one Undertaker into Leper Gnome, turn two second Leper Gnome and Webspinner (4/5 undertaker atack, first Gnome atack) =6 dmg, Turn three 2x Gnome, Undertaker and webspinner atack = 9 dmg

Summed up thats 15dmg turn 2+3.. unfortunately your play dont have turn 1, turn 2 is just make VanCleef. Turn three atack. U could kill an Gnome with backstab, still geting 2 dmg. Or u can kill webspinner -1.. So 14 dmg.

"I dont think any other class can do that..." I  agree with you on that... other classed do better. And just to remind you VanCleef is a freaking legendary.

So you took my situation, Misrepresented the statistics (Van Cleef is 1/5 not counting mulligans if you have the coin and you draw up till turn 2) and then posted an even more hyperbolic one.

A hunter needs to have 1 undertaker (2/30), 2 leper gnomes (I don't even know the odds at that point) and web spinner to have a 4/5 and the turn you play it, it is vulnerable to way more removal. The undertaker play isn't even limited to hunter anymore, as GvG gave us clockwork gnome.

Van Cleef works exactly as he should and he is still damn good in aggro rouge. If you play one spell that turn he's a 4/4 for 3, which typically are stats that come with a downside, anything more and he is way over scale. Yea it's less than impressive if he is just a 4/4, but rouge can consistently do it and consistency wins games.

Miracles is what it is now. Buzzard hunter went away only for everyone to realize that the glass cannon that is death rattle hunter was better in most cases anyways, i full suspect with all the new toys that just came out if you cant make rouge work your doing it wrong.

Quote from darthjaeden »

Quote from protoaddict »

Quote from darthjaeden »

Quote from protoaddict »

Van Cleef is still scary strong in aggro builds. Turn 2 coin, backstab, Cleif is a 6/6. Turn 3 it gets even sillier. I dont think any other class can do that without some silly degree of randomness.

Preparation is not well positioned right now unless your planning on building a rouge that really wants to play sprint, but that may become a possibility in the future.

Alright, lets prove you're wrong as hell. Chances of getting coin is 1/2, vancleef is 4/30 and backstab if u are running two is 1/5. So there is your silly degree of randomness :) U get a 6/6 VanCleef and do 6 dmg turn 3. And you are left with empty hand! Than u get silenced, SW:D, hunters marked and so on.

And thats a legendary card.. lets see what hunter can do with coin and common cards.

Turn one Undertaker into Leper Gnome, turn two second Leper Gnome and Webspinner (4/5 undertaker atack, first Gnome atack) =6 dmg, Turn three 2x Gnome, Undertaker and webspinner atack = 9 dmg

Summed up thats 15dmg turn 2+3.. unfortunately your play dont have turn 1, turn 2 is just make VanCleef. Turn three atack. U could kill an Gnome with backstab, still geting 2 dmg. Or u can kill webspinner -1.. So 14 dmg.

"I dont think any other class can do that..." I  agree with you on that... other classed do better. And just to remind you VanCleef is a freaking legendary.

So you took my situation, Misrepresented the statistics (Van Cleef is 1/5 not counting mulligans if you have the coin and you draw up till turn 2) and then posted an even more hyperbolic one.

A hunter needs to have 1 undertaker (2/30), 2 leper gnomes (I don't even know the odds at that point) and web spinner to have a 4/5 and the turn you play it, it is vulnerable to way more removal. The undertaker play isn't even limited to hunter anymore, as GvG gave us clockwork gnome.

Van Cleef works exactly as he should and he is still damn good in aggro rouge. If you play one spell that turn he's a 4/4 for 3, which typically are stats that come with a downside, anything more and he is way over scale. Yea it's less than impressive if he is just a 4/4, but rouge can consistently do it and consistency wins games.

Miracles is what it is now. Buzzard hunter went away only for everyone to realize that the glass cannon that is death rattle hunter was better in most cases anyways, i full suspect with all the new toys that just came out if you cant make rouge work your doing it wrong.

 

All i wanted to do with this "misrepresented statistics" was point out that your "Van Cleef is scary strong" is bulsh** a hunter with common cards can do more dmg.. and he can! In most cases it is NOT worth coining out Van Cleef in miracle rogue.. its bad play.

So you didnt take anything from my post and just keep talking about aggro rogue.. This thread is about miracle. I am miracle rougue player and we try to discuss here, ways to bring it back. No doubt there will be more good rogue decks, i know there will be and there are with all those GvG cards but i dont like zoo rogue :D. So dont tell me how bad i am that im playing miracle rogue... and how i am doing it wrong not playing your super zoo rogue.. i can play zoo lock, zoo hunter.. i want something different!

 

Right and you seem to think that the card is useless because it cannot be played in the deck you like, hence you saying you want full dust back for it. It is far from useless and you don't deserve your dust back for it.If anything with miracle being a less viable deck its stock has only increased for the class.

GvG has some good tempo and mill rogue Cards: Clockwork Giant, Goblin Autobarber, Goblin Sapper etc.

what about miracle with gazlowe+auctioneer+mimiron's head? the free mechs will be there to build easy voltron finisher..  you throw in gallywix and stuff and it might turn out pretty sick

Quote from EtherEnd »

I don't see how rogue is dead.  I'm sure one or two new successful deck types can be  made once this expansion drops.  I suppose blizzard's policy is to make the game "fun",  while miracle rogue was fun for the person playing it, it wasn't fun for the opponent.  But yea I felt like the measures against miracle were in a good place after naxx, the nerf to gadgettan probably wasn't necessary.

Because playing against hunter is so fucking fun...

Talking about miracle rogue, so not entirely relevant to the convo.  True, most of the time playing against hunter isn't fun,  but if it's a close game or I end up winning it can be.

Miracle has been dead for ages, it was a cheap build that sucked to play against and made the game less fun.