Recently I have replaced Knife Juggler with Argent Protector and have had much more consistent results. Turn 1 Zombie Chow, Turn 2 Argent Protector, just wins games in a way Knife Juggler rarely does. Knife Jugglers only purpose usually is to eat a darkbomb, frostbolt, etc. And very seldom does the combo between that and muster really worth more than the divine shield you get from protector.
interesting point, i was just having a conversation with my friend about taking knife juggler out of the deck and replacing him with something - this flew under the radar, and in my opinion is a great idea. Will test and get back to you, thanks
I think of Knife Juggler as a 2 cost "Remove one frostbolt from your opponent's hand" card. He goes well in decks where I have lots of minions that fall into that same range, such as Mechwarper, Hobgoblin, Shadowboxer, Sorcerer's Apprentice, and so forth. He doesn't do so well in decks where the frostbolt type card isn't the go-to play for several other minions. I bet you'll see better overall performance with the change you've made, as the paladin decks these days tend to lack in high priority 2 cost minions.
I would tend to agree that Knife Juggler is removal bait. In the scenarios where it actually combos into Muster it's a super tempo play, but when it doesn't, it's just a 1:1 trade (your card for his card most of the time). The only downside to protector is that he isn't a turn 2 play himself if you don't already have board presence. (You feel bad if you play him without a target to protect, and even using his battlecry on a 1/1 feels a little bad.) The upside is that protector is great if you've got a good curve with a few high value targets which makes him more relevant in late game with high damage targets.
Just be aware that swapping juggler out for protector is going to technically slow your deck down in most situations.
I wouldn't run Knife Juggler if I was only running Muster for Token Generation. But my deck runs Echoing Ooze; Haunted Creeper; Muster for Battle; Onyxia...
Knife Juggler has it's place in tokenheavy paladin decks; but I wouldn't run it if you are only running Muster or your curve dosen't let you Hero Power often.
Turn 5 Juggler + Muster is a great tempo play that can win you the game against aggro decks, and add Equality into the mix on turn 7 or later and you have a board clear. Pretty useful i would say. Early game is not the time where Juggler shines because it usually gets answered immediately.
Turn 7 if you haven't stabilized against aggro you are likely going to lose anyways. And I have been testing both and have found much more consistency running one protector over juggler. Just last game I got to trade my loatheb into a 5/5 because I gave it divine shield. Huge swing that you have to get lucky on knife juggler to even do. Also Zoo and Hunter are the most common aggro decks and juggler isn't that great against either. Zoo has imp gang boss as well as nerubian egg. And Hunter has sticky minions such as haunted creeper. Just rarely ever does it really live up to the theory why its suppossed to be good from my testing.
You can't harass members who play Face Hunter, nor are they compelled to make preemptive apologies or justifications for playing it. They don't hack or crack their opponents' game, they simply play existing cards that form a specific deck. If you suck at countering Face Hunter, you should blame the designers, not the community.
I've always loved Knife Juggler in my mid-range paladin deck. The obvious combo for him typically involves Muster for Battle, which is pretty devastating to early-midgame board transitional period. He synergizes with every creature your deck plays and synergizes with your hero power in a way most cards (especially early-game plays) don't.
I've seen the arguments against Knife Juggler and, while compelling, I'm still not sold. For every story about Argent Protector synergizing a divine shield minion into another for a nice play, you have stories of knife juggler using his ability to either wipe a board, kill a single high-octane minion, foster a kill-shot on the opposing heroes face, or drop an opposing minion's health low enough to offer a more compelling trade. Knife Juggler also gets value over a span of turns versus Argent Protector's value being used up for a single divine shield. If your opponent cannot deal with Knife Juggler within a single turn, he becomes a major problem your opponent must deal with.
As stated above, he also acts as a removal magnet. If someone wastes a Frostbolt or a Rockbiter Weapon on him, I consider that a win every single time. These are cards with high mid-late game value that they're forced to burn on a 2-drop, which I think everyone can agree is a trade you take every single game.
Practically speaking, a 3/2 body for 2 is already a pretty sweet deal. His ability already works well, but the extra tick of damage helps to give him extra value if he dies by weapon or needs to get launched into a 3-health creature (I'm looking at you, Piloted Shredder).
I can see the biggest weakness argument that I'm going to address now: Absolutely garbage card in the face of most warrior decks. His ability up against Grim Patron, Armorsmith, or Frothing Berserker is basically signing your death wish. To that I say: it's a numbers game. How many variations of decks will you find on the ladder? Are you really not going to run this high-value card-- which synergizes perfectly with your hero power and bring insane 2-drop value to the board-- because it's weak against a single deck? I don't see it.
I have debated with myself for a long while on Juggler vs protector. I have come to the conclusion that divine shield is ridiculously powerful, but not enough to warrant the risk of having a dead card in hand with sub par stats on 2.
So I kept knife juggler which is a solid 2 drop regardless and added coghammer to my deck. Which has given spectacular results.
Juggler is an exceptionally mediocre 2 drop in today's meta because you count yourself lucky if it trades 1 for 1. Minibot, scientist, buffed creeper/nerubian egg, fiery war axe, glaivezooka are all very common turn 2 plays from other classes that leave you behind on tempo on having played a turn 2 juggler. I never feel particularly good about playing a turn 2 juggler because it is punished almost every single time.
Unfortunately, there aren't many other good alternatives. In dragon paladin, I replaced them to fit in blackwing technicians as a solid 3 drop since regular midrange runs 4x 2 drops and only muster as its turn 3 play.
Since Knife Juggler synergizes so well with both your hero power and muster for battle -> Quatermaster, i think its one of the best 2 drops you can have right now. Besides Argent protector is super nice suprise for trading, he is useless on empty board which doenst allow you to take initative. If im looking at my deck below, i would rather not put argent in right now.
This is my thoughts exactly. Hes still a base 3/2 with an extra added bonus of potentially lots of damage when paired with a Snake Trap, Hounds or in a Pally, Muster. I actually find myself holding him for too long waiting to intentionally combo when I could just play him turn 2 and usually get a 3shot to their face without anything else.
It really comes down to what you are trying to accomplish. I prefer to play aggressively so I will take almost any 3/2 2drop and the bonus is just sweeter.
Knife Juggler is broken and over power curve, they forgot about him when adding muster and implosion. Atm he's the only option for neutral 2 drop, aside from Mad Scientist in specific decks.
In Agro pally I tended to run both. I'd coin or 2nd turn the Juggler then if it lives throw down the protector and shield up the Juggler. Used to work pretty nicely.
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Play then Control pally. No juggler, no mustards...It's my favourite deck at the moment, running pretty good in current meta, although I'm currently stuck at rank 5 for 2 days (Bad variance I suppose, really unlucky games).
I have thought plenty of times about removing it, but it is arguably the 2 mana drop which better fits a midrange paladin style. Even if you play it late game, it is a huge boost. You can normally play it + deal at least 2 damage (whichever minion + token). I just had a concede by a zoo-demonlock at turn 3. I had the option of playing a Shielded Minibot or a Knife Juggler and this is what happened:
He has also a great synergy with Dr. Balanced, and as before, if you manage to put 2 on board the enemy has either to use a board clear or continue eating damage and seeing their minions removed.
That said, I have tested Argent Protector in a Divine Shield deck, it is good but I see it has more value in the late game than in the early stages (unless it can help you clean the board by removing an enemy minion for free). That means you need board control in late game, or at least a strong position to take advantage of the battlecry.
If you don't have board control, it does not help. Yet at the same time, Knife Juggler can help you regain board control directly from your hand.
Recently I have replaced Knife Juggler with Argent Protector and have had much more consistent results. Turn 1 Zombie Chow, Turn 2 Argent Protector, just wins games in a way Knife Juggler rarely does. Knife Jugglers only purpose usually is to eat a darkbomb, frostbolt, etc. And very seldom does the combo between that and muster really worth more than the divine shield you get from protector.
interesting point, i was just having a conversation with my friend about taking knife juggler out of the deck and replacing him with something - this flew under the radar, and in my opinion is a great idea. Will test and get back to you, thanks
all your base.
I think of Knife Juggler as a 2 cost "Remove one frostbolt from your opponent's hand" card. He goes well in decks where I have lots of minions that fall into that same range, such as Mechwarper, Hobgoblin, Shadowboxer, Sorcerer's Apprentice, and so forth. He doesn't do so well in decks where the frostbolt type card isn't the go-to play for several other minions. I bet you'll see better overall performance with the change you've made, as the paladin decks these days tend to lack in high priority 2 cost minions.
I would tend to agree that Knife Juggler is removal bait. In the scenarios where it actually combos into Muster it's a super tempo play, but when it doesn't, it's just a 1:1 trade (your card for his card most of the time). The only downside to protector is that he isn't a turn 2 play himself if you don't already have board presence. (You feel bad if you play him without a target to protect, and even using his battlecry on a 1/1 feels a little bad.) The upside is that protector is great if you've got a good curve with a few high value targets which makes him more relevant in late game with high damage targets.
Just be aware that swapping juggler out for protector is going to technically slow your deck down in most situations.
I'm also not a huge fan of knife juggler in midrange. I've essentially replaced them with Dark Irons. I still love the jugglers in aggro pally though!
Fan Made sets for Rogue, Shaman, and Paladin
Not a Protector Fan. On an empty board he's a dead card.
Rarely ever does that happen. Unless its played turn 2 without a 1 drop. Because of the Paladin hero power you at least can guarantee it on a 1/1.
I wouldn't run Knife Juggler if I was only running Muster for Token Generation. But my deck runs Echoing Ooze; Haunted Creeper; Muster for Battle; Onyxia...
Knife Juggler has it's place in tokenheavy paladin decks; but I wouldn't run it if you are only running Muster or your curve dosen't let you Hero Power often.
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
Turn 7 if you haven't stabilized against aggro you are likely going to lose anyways. And I have been testing both and have found much more consistency running one protector over juggler. Just last game I got to trade my loatheb into a 5/5 because I gave it divine shield. Huge swing that you have to get lucky on knife juggler to even do. Also Zoo and Hunter are the most common aggro decks and juggler isn't that great against either. Zoo has imp gang boss as well as nerubian egg. And Hunter has sticky minions such as haunted creeper. Just rarely ever does it really live up to the theory why its suppossed to be good from my testing.
I did replace one Knife Juggler with a Faerie Dragon and been having astonishing results.
You can't harass members who play Face Hunter, nor are they compelled to make preemptive apologies or justifications for playing it. They don't hack or crack their opponents' game, they simply play existing cards that form a specific deck. If you suck at countering Face Hunter, you should blame the designers, not the community.
I've always loved Knife Juggler in my mid-range paladin deck. The obvious combo for him typically involves Muster for Battle, which is pretty devastating to early-midgame board transitional period. He synergizes with every creature your deck plays and synergizes with your hero power in a way most cards (especially early-game plays) don't.
I've seen the arguments against Knife Juggler and, while compelling, I'm still not sold. For every story about Argent Protector synergizing a divine shield minion into another for a nice play, you have stories of knife juggler using his ability to either wipe a board, kill a single high-octane minion, foster a kill-shot on the opposing heroes face, or drop an opposing minion's health low enough to offer a more compelling trade. Knife Juggler also gets value over a span of turns versus Argent Protector's value being used up for a single divine shield. If your opponent cannot deal with Knife Juggler within a single turn, he becomes a major problem your opponent must deal with.
As stated above, he also acts as a removal magnet. If someone wastes a Frostbolt or a Rockbiter Weapon on him, I consider that a win every single time. These are cards with high mid-late game value that they're forced to burn on a 2-drop, which I think everyone can agree is a trade you take every single game.
Practically speaking, a 3/2 body for 2 is already a pretty sweet deal. His ability already works well, but the extra tick of damage helps to give him extra value if he dies by weapon or needs to get launched into a 3-health creature (I'm looking at you, Piloted Shredder).
I can see the biggest weakness argument that I'm going to address now: Absolutely garbage card in the face of most warrior decks. His ability up against Grim Patron, Armorsmith, or Frothing Berserker is basically signing your death wish. To that I say: it's a numbers game. How many variations of decks will you find on the ladder? Are you really not going to run this high-value card-- which synergizes perfectly with your hero power and bring insane 2-drop value to the board-- because it's weak against a single deck? I don't see it.
One last point: Knife Juggler+Equality= GG.
I have debated with myself for a long while on Juggler vs protector. I have come to the conclusion that divine shield is ridiculously powerful, but not enough to warrant the risk of having a dead card in hand with sub par stats on 2.
So I kept knife juggler which is a solid 2 drop regardless and added coghammer to my deck. Which has given spectacular results.
Juggler is an exceptionally mediocre 2 drop in today's meta because you count yourself lucky if it trades 1 for 1. Minibot, scientist, buffed creeper/nerubian egg, fiery war axe, glaivezooka are all very common turn 2 plays from other classes that leave you behind on tempo on having played a turn 2 juggler. I never feel particularly good about playing a turn 2 juggler because it is punished almost every single time.
Unfortunately, there aren't many other good alternatives. In dragon paladin, I replaced them to fit in blackwing technicians as a solid 3 drop since regular midrange runs 4x 2 drops and only muster as its turn 3 play.
Since Knife Juggler synergizes so well with both your hero power and muster for battle -> Quatermaster, i think its one of the best 2 drops you can have right now. Besides Argent protector is super nice suprise for trading, he is useless on empty board which doenst allow you to take initative. If im looking at my deck below, i would rather not put argent in right now.
only those with Straw in their heads fear the Spark of Truth
Juggler turn 2 guaranties a removal from the opponent, if not he can be punished with a muster turn 3
also turn 5 Knife Juggler + muster
turn 7 equality Knife Juggler Muster for Battle
turn 9 Knife Juggler dr boom
This is my thoughts exactly. Hes still a base 3/2 with an extra added bonus of potentially lots of damage when paired with a Snake Trap, Hounds or in a Pally, Muster. I actually find myself holding him for too long waiting to intentionally combo when I could just play him turn 2 and usually get a 3shot to their face without anything else.
It really comes down to what you are trying to accomplish. I prefer to play aggressively so I will take almost any 3/2 2drop and the bonus is just sweeter.
I love wizard poker!!
Knife Juggler is broken and over power curve, they forgot about him when adding muster and implosion.
Atm he's the only option for neutral 2 drop, aside from Mad Scientist in specific decks.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
In Agro pally I tended to run both. I'd coin or 2nd turn the Juggler then if it lives throw down the protector and shield up the Juggler. Used to work pretty nicely.
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I am not a huge fan of 2x Muster for Battle in the deck, prefer to have just 1, so consequently I use only 1 Knife Juggler. However, I agree, he is better than Argent Protector.
Like...dog sh!t.
I have thought plenty of times about removing it, but it is arguably the 2 mana drop which better fits a midrange paladin style. Even if you play it late game, it is a huge boost. You can normally play it + deal at least 2 damage (whichever minion + token). I just had a concede by a zoo-demonlock at turn 3. I had the option of playing a Shielded Minibot or a Knife Juggler and this is what happened:
Turn 1 (opp): Voidwalker
Turn 1 (me): The Coin + Knife Juggler
Turn 2 (opp): Life Tap (loses 2 hp) + attack face for 1
Turn 2 (me): Kill Voidwalker + second Knife Juggler (hits face for 1)
Turn 3 (opp): Void Terror
Turn 3 (me): Muster for Battle kills Void Terror and hit face for 10 dmg
Opponent concedes.
He has also a great synergy with Dr. Balanced, and as before, if you manage to put 2 on board the enemy has either to use a board clear or continue eating damage and seeing their minions removed.
That said, I have tested Argent Protector in a Divine Shield deck, it is good but I see it has more value in the late game than in the early stages (unless it can help you clean the board by removing an enemy minion for free). That means you need board control in late game, or at least a strong position to take advantage of the battlecry.
If you don't have board control, it does not help. Yet at the same time, Knife Juggler can help you regain board control directly from your hand.
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