I was looking over Aggro Paladin lists on HSReplay to get a sense of what they're running, and a lot of the most popular deck lists seem to be running Val'anyr. I assume it's a tech card in those decks (maybe against other aggro decks), but does anyone here have a good idea as to why?
It seems like a terrible card in those decks; choosing to play Val'anyr over Truesilver Champion means you expect to get the extra deathrattle value, which means you expect to go to turn 7 or 8 before the game ends. But that's kind of ridiculous, since aggro decks want to have won the game by turn 6 or 7. The data seems to support the conclusion that this card is bad in aggro - these decks average 7 turns, and it's the lowest or second lowest win rate play in the aggro lists on HSReplay (when second, the worst played card is Patches the Pirate).
So why not run Truesilver Champion instead, or even something like Spellbreaker to get through big taunts like Voidlord? Is there an actual compelling reason to run Val'anyr as a tech card that I'm not seeing?
I think the point of it is to increase the amount of answers the opponent needs to empty your board, as it makes your ordinary minions rather scary and forces a response at awkward times. It also guarantees a degree of constant weapon damage.
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Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
I considered the Southsea Deckhand example (because hitting Leeroy Jenkins consistently seems too hard to do fast enough to make it matter), but your weapon has to die to get the bonus attack, and Val'anyr won't come back until your charger dies, so getting the extra Southsea Deckhand burst means a late-game three card combo (set up with Val'anyr, buff Southsea Deckhand, equip one of the four other weapons you probably should have already played earlier in the game).
You are absolutely correct, the card is pretty good but too slow for an aggro deck, yes there will be games where the 8 overall damage may help and maybe you hit the deathrattle on Leeroy and blow your opponent back to kindergarten but overall is slow enough to actually suck in that very particular deck. You are also correct in the replacement, I think in the current meta any aggro or highly tempo oriented deck running at least, AT LEAST, 1 spell breaker is a must, with so many warlocks on ladder is just impossible for a fast deck to get through 9 health to then have to get through it again but now spread into 3 different bodies, and with both the skull weapon and the Lackeys is just so easy to cheat Void Lord turn 6 rn, so my Tempo Rogue, Aggro Paladin both have 2x Spell Breaker and my winrate against Warlock has improved significantly and even on Aggro druid I managed to fit 1 breaker and it helps a lot, just cut the weapon, put in a breaker and cut some other subpar card (Like 1 Jailor, I still don't get why people play 2 of that garbage card, even 1 is like questionable) and see how your winrate goes miles up.
Reached legend for the first time using an aggro deck with Val'anyr. I honestly started thinking about the card in much the same way as you: "Really? A 4/2 for 6? Sounds neat, but WAY too slow". But boy, was i wrong. Imagine this: Go face for 4 damage, give the buff to leeroy, bam, you just did 14 damage in 1 turn to face.
It definitely won some games for me, would have severely impacted my win-rate without it.
it's good for keeping back stuff like dopplegangster and saronite chain gang, getting umbra on the board then getting the double buffs on them immediately.
it's a bit of a meme, but the guy who as far as I know created the combo, has some screens of some seriously buffed up minions using just umbra+weapon on dopple and saronite.
This is more of a tempo deck that can go into late game though, so it gets more value than with a full on aggro deck.
I think the others have pretty much stated why it's good in aggro. I run it in my aggro pally deck. I removed the useless maul weapons though to tech in spellbreakers.
I was looking over Aggro Paladin lists on HSReplay to get a sense of what they're running, and a lot of the most popular deck lists seem to be running Val'anyr. I assume it's a tech card in those decks (maybe against other aggro decks), but does anyone here have a good idea as to why?
It seems like a terrible card in those decks; choosing to play Val'anyr over Truesilver Champion means you expect to get the extra deathrattle value, which means you expect to go to turn 7 or 8 before the game ends. But that's kind of ridiculous, since aggro decks want to have won the game by turn 6 or 7. The data seems to support the conclusion that this card is bad in aggro - these decks average 7 turns, and it's the lowest or second lowest win rate play in the aggro lists on HSReplay (when second, the worst played card is Patches the Pirate).
So why not run Truesilver Champion instead, or even something like Spellbreaker to get through big taunts like Voidlord? Is there an actual compelling reason to run Val'anyr as a tech card that I'm not seeing?
Thanks in advance.
I fully agree. Val'anyr is not what an aggro deck wants.
It's good with Charge minions, but I suppose it's mainly to make those 9-7 Corridor Creeper.
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I think the point of it is to increase the amount of answers the opponent needs to empty your board, as it makes your ordinary minions rather scary and forces a response at awkward times. It also guarantees a degree of constant weapon damage.
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
It's 14 damage burst if it hits Leeroy Jenkins and 10 damage burst when it hits a Southsea Deckhand.
Add me up if you're looking for someone to play friendly matches with! I play on EU. LuckyScrub#2745
I remember a game where i got lethal'd from 20+ hp with valanyr, leeroy and 1 minion on board
I considered the Southsea Deckhand example (because hitting Leeroy Jenkins consistently seems too hard to do fast enough to make it matter), but your weapon has to die to get the bonus attack, and Val'anyr won't come back until your charger dies, so getting the extra Southsea Deckhand burst means a late-game three card combo (set up with Val'anyr, buff Southsea Deckhand, equip one of the four other weapons you probably should have already played earlier in the game).
You are absolutely correct, the card is pretty good but too slow for an aggro deck, yes there will be games where the 8 overall damage may help and maybe you hit the deathrattle on Leeroy and blow your opponent back to kindergarten but overall is slow enough to actually suck in that very particular deck. You are also correct in the replacement, I think in the current meta any aggro or highly tempo oriented deck running at least, AT LEAST, 1 spell breaker is a must, with so many warlocks on ladder is just impossible for a fast deck to get through 9 health to then have to get through it again but now spread into 3 different bodies, and with both the skull weapon and the Lackeys is just so easy to cheat Void Lord turn 6 rn, so my Tempo Rogue, Aggro Paladin both have 2x Spell Breaker and my winrate against Warlock has improved significantly and even on Aggro druid I managed to fit 1 breaker and it helps a lot, just cut the weapon, put in a breaker and cut some other subpar card (Like 1 Jailor, I still don't get why people play 2 of that garbage card, even 1 is like questionable) and see how your winrate goes miles up.
The timing of Val'Anyr is amazing. The only minion that can stick in your hand is Deckhand and Leeroy. And it's amazing with both.
Also, it's a recurring source of damage.
Reached legend for the first time using an aggro deck with Val'anyr. I honestly started thinking about the card in much the same way as you: "Really? A 4/2 for 6? Sounds neat, but WAY too slow". But boy, was i wrong. Imagine this: Go face for 4 damage, give the buff to leeroy, bam, you just did 14 damage in 1 turn to face.
It definitely won some games for me, would have severely impacted my win-rate without it.
it's good for keeping back stuff like dopplegangster and saronite chain gang, getting umbra on the board then getting the double buffs on them immediately.
it's a bit of a meme, but the guy who as far as I know created the combo, has some screens of some seriously buffed up minions using just umbra+weapon on dopple and saronite.
This is more of a tempo deck that can go into late game though, so it gets more value than with a full on aggro deck.
I think the others have pretty much stated why it's good in aggro. I run it in my aggro pally deck. I removed the useless maul weapons though to tech in spellbreakers.
The thing is on stats Valanir is better than truesilver which i dont wont to play anymore on 4 since thats call to arms turn.
And if i dont run truesilver/valanir what would you put on that slot?
You could use Vinecleaver instead, if it's a weapon you want. More damage and puts recruits on the board for only 1 mana more.