It was actually expected. Evolve shaman was already very strong, but the DH nerfs made it insane.
They are aware, as they have the numbers, but unless an archetype has 60+% winrate at legend, which it doesn't, they won't nerf for a few weeks to see if counter decks emerge.
I played against an evolve shaman running Kobold Stickyfinger today, which should be a clear sign a nerf is incoming. The counter decks are too few (mostly face aggro) and too weak in general.
They nerfed HL hunter preemptively because DH nerfs would make this deck get out of control and dominate the meta and they did a good job, HL is still played, not as much as before but still remains a strong deck. It's funny cuz they knew shaman will be the next meta defining archetype, they had the numbers, they knew it was weak against aggro DH and HL hunter and yet they didn't nerf it preemptively. Maybe they thought it wouldn't highroll like crazy. I remember cube warlock receiving the same treatment. They didn't nerf it in KnC when it came out even thought it was stupid broken, instead they nerfed it in witchwood when silence and weapon removal were present in literally every deck. Now everyone has to run Kobold Stickyfinger for a chance to win against evolve shaman which means this deck will definitely be nerfed, hopefully before the next big expansion.
They nerfed HL hunter preemptively because DH nerfs would make this deck get out of control and dominate the meta and they did a good job, HL is still played, not as much as before but still remains a strong deck. It's funny cuz they knew shaman will be the next meta defining archetype, they had the numbers, they knew it was weak against aggro DH and HL hunter and yet they didn't nerf it preemptively. Maybe they thought it wouldn't highroll like crazy. I remember cube warlock receiving the same treatment. They didn't nerf it in KnC when it came out even thought it was stupid broken, instead they nerfed it in witchwood when silence and weapon removal were present in literally every deck. Now everyone has to run Kobold Stickyfinger for a chance to win against evolve shaman which means this deck will definitely be nerfed, hopefully before the next big expansion.
I don't run Stickyfinger in most decks and I dont have much trouble against it.
I mean it's not a whole lot of fun to play against and limits deck space so I am down with nerfs but
As long as you aggressively board clear then you win. Once they're out of Knuckles they just run out of steam in a second and are just fodder.
I'm going out on a limb here but I do not think it's broken at all. It can easily hi roll but also draw dead and is an easily countered deck.
I climbed to d5 using control warrior pegging most Ws against evolve shaman.
I then proceeded to play evolve shaman to see what the huff is all about. I did manage a 14 game WS. But then I also went on a 10 game losing streak to due not drawing weapon or even worse GASP my opponent had weapon removal!
People are saying OP but the deck is just frustrating when it hits. Think big priest of ol'.
It's on of those decks that's no fun to play against or to play for the matter.
It’s too consistent and too relentless for a format where aggro is weak. 4 copies of the weapon to mulligan for and up to 8 charges is too tenacious for most control decks to handle without heavy, heavy weapon tech. If there was more in the way of viable aggro to keep it honest, it wouldn’t be so problematic, just a midrange control killer with an exploitable weakness like it should be. Unfortunately the most reliable aggro deck we have at our disposal now is zoolock, which feeds the fleshshaper/giant engine and is a 50/50 at best, making it ultra safe to ladder with Shaman.
As I’ve said before, if the best ladder strategy is to run double Stickyfinger in every deck, there is a problem with the meta.
It’s too consistent and too relentless for a format where aggro is weak. 4 copies of the weapon to mulligan for and up to 8 charges is too tenacious for most control decks to handle without heavy, heavy weapon tech. If there was more in the way of viable aggro to keep it honest, it wouldn’t be so problematic, just a midrange control killer with an exploitable weakness like it should be. Unfortunately the most reliable aggro deck we have at our disposal now is zoolock, which feeds the fleshshaper/giant engine and is a 50/50 at best, making it ultra safe to ladder with Shaman.
As I’ve said before, if the best ladder strategy is to run double Stickyfinger in every deck, there is a problem with the meta.
Except the reason you run Stickyfinger is because the top FIVE classes in the meta are all weapon classes rn. After Shaman comes Pally with Truesilver, Hunter who has a legend weapon rn, Rogue who most are running quest, and DH who run multiple weaps.
Just curious. I am not demanding them to do anything though cause I know they need to make enough profit off of packs before they make another nerfs.
It shows not for the first time the utter disdain and contempt Blizzard has for the player base as long as the target audience gets their skill free win rush. And still people are defending and accepting it as a normality. This game is a reflection of day and age we live. Being abhorrent seems to be perfectly ok.
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It’s too consistent and too relentless for a format where aggro is weak. 4 copies of the weapon to mulligan for and up to 8 charges is too tenacious for most control decks to handle without heavy, heavy weapon tech. If there was more in the way of viable aggro to keep it honest, it wouldn’t be so problematic, just a midrange control killer with an exploitable weakness like it should be. Unfortunately the most reliable aggro deck we have at our disposal now is zoolock, which feeds the fleshshaper/giant engine and is a 50/50 at best, making it ultra safe to ladder with Shaman.
As I’ve said before, if the best ladder strategy is to run double Stickyfinger in every deck, there is a problem with the meta.
Except the reason you run Stickyfinger is because the top FIVE classes in the meta are all weapon classes rn. After Shaman comes Pally with Truesilver, Hunter who has a legend weapon rn, Rogue who most are running quest, and DH who run multiple weaps.
6/10 classes have good stealable weapons rn.
Let’s not pretend we are running Stickyfingers to steal a Truesilver Champion. We run them because Boggspine is the Evolve Shaman win condition, and stealing it can also deny their hoard pillager. While I do agree that weapons in general are a touch overpowered right now, weapon tech isn’t required to beat these other classes like it is Shaman. I don’t know where on earth you’re running into quest Rogues right now either?
It got me to legend. It's a beast deck right now. I have no idea what the overall winrates are, but I know I hit legend last week with it and landed somewhere in the 9,000's, and I'm now in the 4,000's with hardly any losses. You lose through terrible draw of not getting your weapons, or rarely through low rolls on the evolves. That's it. If your weapons come online by turn 3, 4, or 5, then you most likely have it in the bag.
Vicious Syndicate also agrees that Shaman is broken right now and they have their data to support it. (They consider Shaman tier S). The deck that contained Shaman was DH, and with that out of the way, no real counter to Shaman outside of tech cards.
The VS podcast is a good listen for those interested.
It got me to legend. It's a beast deck right now. I have no idea what the overall winrates are, but I know I hit legend last week with it and landed somewhere in the 9,000's, and I'm now in the 4,000's with hardly any losses. You lose through terrible draw of not getting your weapons, or rarely through low rolls on the evolves. That's it. If your weapons come online by turn 3, 4, or 5, then you most likely have it in the bag.
I farmed evolve shaman with control warrior. Over 90% wr over 50+ matches.
This deck is not that good. It just counters alot of popular decks on the ladder of which control warrior is not.
The problem with the deck is it requires zero thought and feels bad to play or play against. Thusly the hatred it seems players have towards it.
Highlander decks in general do very well against it too in my experience. Mage, priest and hunter HL all have tools to clear and pressure.
It got me to legend. It's a beast deck right now. I have no idea what the overall winrates are, but I know I hit legend last week with it and landed somewhere in the 9,000's, and I'm now in the 4,000's with hardly any losses. You lose through terrible draw of not getting your weapons, or rarely through low rolls on the evolves. That's it. If your weapons come online by turn 3, 4, or 5, then you most likely have it in the bag.
I farmed evolve shaman with control warrior. Over 90% wr over 50+ matches.
This deck is not that good. It just counters alot of popular decks on the ladder of which control warrior is not.
The problem with the deck is it requires zero thought and feels bad to play or play against. Thusly the hatred it seems players have towards it.
Highlander decks in general do very well against it too in my experience. Mage, priest and hunter HL all have tools to clear and pressure.
Regardless GG.
It literally has a positive win rate against every single deck bar Aggro DH and 2 or 3 coin flip match ups. This is based on a data sample of the deck being queued approx 81,700 times (including mirror matches, so roughly 66,200 games total. Its win rates are slightly higher than this at legend where people don’t bloom out the weapon on 3 and swing with just a 2 drop on the board.
Just curious. I am not demanding them to do anything though cause I know they need to make enough profit off of packs before they make another nerfs.
I would say there is always a chance they dont draw the weapon.. but wait shaman also got tutor for that :D
Played a lot of those matchups. 100% of them had it on turn 5.
It was actually expected. Evolve shaman was already very strong, but the DH nerfs made it insane.
They are aware, as they have the numbers, but unless an archetype has 60+% winrate at legend, which it doesn't, they won't nerf for a few weeks to see if counter decks emerge.
I played against an evolve shaman running Kobold Stickyfinger today, which should be a clear sign a nerf is incoming. The counter decks are too few (mostly face aggro) and too weak in general.
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They nerfed HL hunter preemptively because DH nerfs would make this deck get out of control and dominate the meta and they did a good job, HL is still played, not as much as before but still remains a strong deck. It's funny cuz they knew shaman will be the next meta defining archetype, they had the numbers, they knew it was weak against aggro DH and HL hunter and yet they didn't nerf it preemptively. Maybe they thought it wouldn't highroll like crazy. I remember cube warlock receiving the same treatment. They didn't nerf it in KnC when it came out even thought it was stupid broken, instead they nerfed it in witchwood when silence and weapon removal were present in literally every deck. Now everyone has to run Kobold Stickyfinger for a chance to win against evolve shaman which means this deck will definitely be nerfed, hopefully before the next big expansion.
I been farming shamans at legend with my galakrond warlock with 2 kobold sticky fingers.
I don't run Stickyfinger in most decks and I dont have much trouble against it.
I mean it's not a whole lot of fun to play against and limits deck space so I am down with nerfs but
As long as you aggressively board clear then you win. Once they're out of Knuckles they just run out of steam in a second and are just fodder.
Groan. Stfu whiney child
I'm going out on a limb here but I do not think it's broken at all. It can easily hi roll but also draw dead and is an easily countered deck.
I climbed to d5 using control warrior pegging most Ws against evolve shaman.
I then proceeded to play evolve shaman to see what the huff is all about. I did manage a 14 game WS. But then I also went on a 10 game losing streak to due not drawing weapon or even worse GASP my opponent had weapon removal!
People are saying OP but the deck is just frustrating when it hits. Think big priest of ol'.
It's on of those decks that's no fun to play against or to play for the matter.
It’s too consistent and too relentless for a format where aggro is weak. 4 copies of the weapon to mulligan for and up to 8 charges is too tenacious for most control decks to handle without heavy, heavy weapon tech. If there was more in the way of viable aggro to keep it honest, it wouldn’t be so problematic, just a midrange control killer with an exploitable weakness like it should be. Unfortunately the most reliable aggro deck we have at our disposal now is zoolock, which feeds the fleshshaper/giant engine and is a 50/50 at best, making it ultra safe to ladder with Shaman.
As I’ve said before, if the best ladder strategy is to run double Stickyfinger in every deck, there is a problem with the meta.
Except the reason you run Stickyfinger is because the top FIVE classes in the meta are all weapon classes rn. After Shaman comes Pally with Truesilver, Hunter who has a legend weapon rn, Rogue who most are running quest, and DH who run multiple weaps.
6/10 classes have good stealable weapons rn.
Groan you're wrong gtfo
typical low iq, op deck abuser response.
It shows not for the first time the utter disdain and contempt Blizzard has for the player base as long as the target audience gets their skill free win rush. And still people are defending and accepting it as a normality. This game is a reflection of day and age we live. Being abhorrent seems to be perfectly ok.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Let’s not pretend we are running Stickyfingers to steal a Truesilver Champion. We run them because Boggspine is the Evolve Shaman win condition, and stealing it can also deny their hoard pillager. While I do agree that weapons in general are a touch overpowered right now, weapon tech isn’t required to beat these other classes like it is Shaman. I don’t know where on earth you’re running into quest Rogues right now either?
It got me to legend. It's a beast deck right now. I have no idea what the overall winrates are, but I know I hit legend last week with it and landed somewhere in the 9,000's, and I'm now in the 4,000's with hardly any losses. You lose through terrible draw of not getting your weapons, or rarely through low rolls on the evolves. That's it. If your weapons come online by turn 3, 4, or 5, then you most likely have it in the bag.
Vicious Syndicate also agrees that Shaman is broken right now and they have their data to support it. (They consider Shaman tier S). The deck that contained Shaman was DH, and with that out of the way, no real counter to Shaman outside of tech cards.
The VS podcast is a good listen for those interested.
I farmed evolve shaman with control warrior. Over 90% wr over 50+ matches.
This deck is not that good. It just counters alot of popular decks on the ladder of which control warrior is not.
The problem with the deck is it requires zero thought and feels bad to play or play against. Thusly the hatred it seems players have towards it.
Highlander decks in general do very well against it too in my experience. Mage, priest and hunter HL all have tools to clear and pressure.
Regardless GG.
It literally has a positive win rate against every single deck bar Aggro DH and 2 or 3 coin flip match ups. This is based on a data sample of the deck being queued approx 81,700 times (including mirror matches, so roughly 66,200 games total. Its win rates are slightly higher than this at legend where people don’t bloom out the weapon on 3 and swing with just a 2 drop on the board.
Thank you for complimenting my skill then on managing my control warrior deck!
Just a sign alot of players don't know how to player control.