I've been tinkering with an Even Mage deck for fun and had the idea of adding C'Thun, the Shattered as a way to work in a few odd cards into the deck. Most of the time, Genn Greymane activates then C'Thun shatters. Every so often, Genn doesn't discount my hero power. The interaction seems bugged, but I can't figure out the pattern. Has anyone else tried this and experienced something similar?
Maybe it’s where they end up in the shuffled deck? Like, sometimes c’thun is sooner, so he goes first, then glen tries and fails? Just a theory. Maybe someone smart will have an actual answer soon.
My first thought would be it wouldn't activate at all like ever cause C'thun shatters only after you mulligan and Genn and Baku can be active if you manage to draw you non even/odd cards in the mulligan as your deck technically would only have even/odd cards at that point but that's not the case with C'thun. I can test it myself so I'll take your word for it but I guess at that point it comes down to who activates first, maybe (?). Is it consistent? I mean does C'thun always activate first and then Genn pops or does Genn ever activate and pops out before C'thun? Cause that could be the thing. If whoever activates first is chosen at random then that would explain the whole situation. If Genn is always supposed to activate first then there should never be an issue cause you get your discounted HP and then C'thun shatters into your deck. But if it's at random then that means C'thun can shatter first and then, when Genn checks your deck you no longer have even cards only.
My first thought would be it wouldn't activate at all like ever cause C'thun shatters only after you mulligan and Genn and Baku can be active if you manage to draw you non even/odd cards in the mulligan as your deck technically would only have even/odd cards at that point but that's not the case with C'thun. I can test it myself so I'll take your word for it but I guess at that point it comes down to who activates first, maybe (?). Is it consistent? I mean does C'thun always activate first and then Genn pops or does Genn ever activate and pops out before C'thun? Cause that could be the thing. If whoever activates first is chosen at random then that would explain the whole situation. If Genn is always supposed to activate first then there should never be an issue cause you get your discounted HP and then C'thun shatters into your deck. But if it's at random then that means C'thun can shatter first and then, when Genn checks your deck you no longer have even cards only.
The weird things is it isn't consistent. I could see Genn never triggering cause there's 5-cost spells after C'Thun shatters OR Genn always triggers cause C'Thun is a 10-cost card. I feel like 85-90% of the time Genn works. Haven't played enough to have a large sample, so I'm really guessing at percentages, but 100% there is inconsistency.
My first thought would be it wouldn't activate at all like ever cause C'thun shatters only after you mulligan and Genn and Baku can be active if you manage to draw you non even/odd cards in the mulligan as your deck technically would only have even/odd cards at that point but that's not the case with C'thun. I can test it myself so I'll take your word for it but I guess at that point it comes down to who activates first, maybe (?). Is it consistent? I mean does C'thun always activate first and then Genn pops or does Genn ever activate and pops out before C'thun? Cause that could be the thing. If whoever activates first is chosen at random then that would explain the whole situation. If Genn is always supposed to activate first then there should never be an issue cause you get your discounted HP and then C'thun shatters into your deck. But if it's at random then that means C'thun can shatter first and then, when Genn checks your deck you no longer have even cards only.
The weird things is it isn't consistent. I could see Genn never triggering cause there's 5-cost spells after C'Thun shatters OR Genn always triggers cause C'Thun is a 10-cost card. I feel like 85-90% of the time Genn works. Haven't played enough to have a large sample, so I'm really guessing at percentages, but 100% there is inconsistency.
Well that's what I'm saying. Both C'thun and Genn are shown at the start of the game as they activate their respective ability. Genn shows up if after the mulligar your deck has only even cards. You can run odd cards on an even deck but if you draw them on the mulligan stage then when Genn checks your deck then you don't have odd cards. This has been tested with cards like quests for example, cause you're guaranteed to draw them on your opening hand 100% of the times.
My question is the following. You say that Genn works around 80-90% of the times, give or take, so the quetion is if WHEN GENN ACTIVATES he always pops out on your screen before C'thun or if C'thun has activated first and then from time to time Genn will still be active. Cause that might be the difference between a random chance on the order of activation or a bug.
I've been tinkering with an Even Mage deck for fun and had the idea of adding C'Thun, the Shattered as a way to work in a few odd cards into the deck. Most of the time, Genn Greymane activates then C'Thun shatters. Every so often, Genn doesn't discount my hero power. The interaction seems bugged, but I can't figure out the pattern. Has anyone else tried this and experienced something similar?
This is not a bug, it's how the game works (and has been confirmed). Both Genn's and C'thun's powers are "Start of Game" triggers. They both get put into a "queue" and will trigger in the order that they are stacked (by the game). So, If Genn triggers first, then it thinks C'thun is a 10-mana card. If C'thun triggers first, then it will put the 5-mana cards in the deck and then you won't get the HP upgrade.
I've been tinkering with an Even Mage deck for fun and had the idea of adding C'Thun, the Shattered as a way to work in a few odd cards into the deck. Most of the time, Genn Greymane activates then C'Thun shatters. Every so often, Genn doesn't discount my hero power. The interaction seems bugged, but I can't figure out the pattern. Has anyone else tried this and experienced something similar?
This is not a bug, it's how the game works (and has been confirmed). Both Genn's and C'thun's powers are "Start of Game" triggers. They both get put into a "queue" and will trigger in the order that they are stacked (by the game). So, If Genn triggers first, then it thinks C'thun is a 10-mana card. If C'thun triggers first, then it will put the 5-mana cards in the deck and then you won't get the HP upgrade.
Thanks for the comment. I understand that each would get put into a queue and trigger in order. I've done enough programing to grasp the mechanics behind that. What I can't figure is why this would be randomized (especially since there's impact based on that order)? Just feels like sloppy programing. (I know I sound biased since I clearly want my Genn to always trigger, but) I think there should be a conditional for Genn that parses for deck state before any 'start of game' effects are triggered otherwise it doesn't feel like an actual 'start of game' effect. It's more of a 'before the game begins but after other things have happened' trigger.
Maybe it was designed to allow C'thun the Shattered to work in either odd or even decks, but is either bugged or intentionally random (not sure why it would be random, but maybe they programmed based on order in the deck)?
Edit: There are a few apparent inconsistencies here if - Prince Malzechar apparently works consistently with Genn, the actual wording "start of game" wording is the same, and also apparently Baku never activates with C'thun the Shattered?
I've been tinkering with an Even Mage deck for fun and had the idea of adding C'Thun, the Shattered as a way to work in a few odd cards into the deck. Most of the time, Genn Greymane activates then C'Thun shatters. Every so often, Genn doesn't discount my hero power. The interaction seems bugged, but I can't figure out the pattern. Has anyone else tried this and experienced something similar?
This is not a bug, it's how the game works (and has been confirmed). Both Genn's and C'thun's powers are "Start of Game" triggers. They both get put into a "queue" and will trigger in the order that they are stacked (by the game). So, If Genn triggers first, then it thinks C'thun is a 10-mana card. If C'thun triggers first, then it will put the 5-mana cards in the deck and then you won't get the HP upgrade.
Thanks for the comment. I understand that each would get put into a queue and trigger in order. I've done enough programing to grasp the mechanics behind that. What I can't figure is why this would be randomized (especially since there's impact based on that order)? Just feels like sloppy programing. (I know I sound biased since I clearly want my Genn to always trigger, but) I think there should be a conditional for Genn that parses for deck state before any 'start of game' effects are triggered otherwise it doesn't feel like an actual 'start of game' effect. It's more of a 'before the game begins but after other things have happened' trigger.
Hey! My comment was intended as purely factual with no intended condescension or anything to that effect. (in case it was misconstrued - I could have perhaps stated it a little more explanatorily maybe) The reason for randomisation (in my opinion as a Software Engineer - I don't have any knowledge of the actual code design) would be to help prevent manipulation of the game. If you know the exact ordering of how events will come off the queue, then you can manipulate how it works to your advantage. Whereas Hearthstone is all about the randomisation so I suppose it makes more sense from their side to keep it as such. Of course, that's all speculation - and it could just be lazy / sloppy coding, or a side effect of the way the system works; which isn't technically a bug, but is more just the way it plays out from a code perspective.
Hey! My comment was intended as purely factual with no intended condescension or anything to that effect. (in case it was misconstrued - I could have perhaps stated it a little more explanatorily maybe) The reason for randomisation (in my opinion as a Software Engineer - I don't have any knowledge of the actual code design) would be to help prevent manipulation of the game. If you know the exact ordering of how events will come off the queue, then you can manipulate how it works to your advantage. Whereas Hearthstone is all about the randomisation so I suppose it makes more sense from their side to keep it as such. Of course, that's all speculation - and it could just be lazy / sloppy coding, or a side effect of the way the system works; which isn't technically a bug, but is more just the way it plays out from a code perspective.
No condescension taken (or intended from me either)! Just speculating on my part as well. I hear you on the 'randomize all the things' ;) That does seem to be their MO. It's just my opinion, but that sees problematic with something like this. I should be able to know when I'm building my deck: either my deck will have the discount or not. It either it is manipulation by adding C'Thun, the Shattered or it's not. While I do think (and even like) that many thing could/should be be up to a flip of the coin (or random number generator), I do not think this is one of them.
PS - I'm appreciative of being able to have back and forth on a forum without being called a whiner or a troll :)
Hey! My comment was intended as purely factual with no intended condescension or anything to that effect. (in case it was misconstrued - I could have perhaps stated it a little more explanatorily maybe) The reason for randomisation (in my opinion as a Software Engineer - I don't have any knowledge of the actual code design) would be to help prevent manipulation of the game. If you know the exact ordering of how events will come off the queue, then you can manipulate how it works to your advantage. Whereas Hearthstone is all about the randomisation so I suppose it makes more sense from their side to keep it as such. Of course, that's all speculation - and it could just be lazy / sloppy coding, or a side effect of the way the system works; which isn't technically a bug, but is more just the way it plays out from a code perspective.
No condescension taken (or intended from me either)! Just speculating on my part as well. I hear you on the 'randomize all the things' ;) That does seem to be their MO. It's just my opinion, but that sees problematic with something like this. I should be able to know when I'm building my deck: either my deck will have the discount or not. It either it is manipulation by adding C'Thun, the Shattered or it's not. While I do think (and even like) that many thing could/should be be up to a flip of the coin (or random number generator), I do not think this is one of them.
PS - I'm appreciative of being able to have back and forth on a forum without being called a whiner or a troll :)
:-) All good - and I am totally with you on the point about being able to build a deck and expect it to work consistently. In that regard, I find myself leaning more to the thought that this was perhaps simply an unintended quirk of the system. I don't think I would classify it as a "bug" per se - I suppose that would depend on Blizzard's intended design and whether it follows the correct pattern or not. Maybe that's just making excuses for bad code on their behalf? Who knows? Perhaps! XD The difficulty lies in the fact that this has happened in other cases with the legendary card that adds 5 more legendaries to your deck at the start of the game (hence why you could possibly say there is a "precedent" of sorts for it). I guess only Blizzard can state if it requires "fixing" or not. Whether that is likely to happen or not, well.... ^_^
Anyway for clarification: if you have odd cost cards in your deck and get them all in the mulligan, genn will NOT trigger. This is easily tested by playing a quest in an otherwise even cost deck.
Anyone telling you otherwise is mistaken about this interaction
According to the hearthstone wiki page, whatever card is closer to the top of the deck triggers first. So in theory, Baku should have the same success rate as Genn.
Anyway for clarification: if you have odd cost cards in your deck and get them all in the mulligan, genn will NOT trigger. This is easily tested by playing a quest in an otherwise even cost deck.
Anyone telling you otherwise is mistaken about this interaction
That's not the interaction that the OP was talking about. To include a quest, that would be part of your actual built deck - quests are not added to your deck after the match has started. OP was talking about cards that add new cards to your deck during the Start of Game phase, such as the new C'thun and Prince Malchezaar
I've been tinkering with an Even Mage deck for fun and had the idea of adding C'Thun, the Shattered as a way to work in a few odd cards into the deck. Most of the time, Genn Greymane activates then C'Thun shatters. Every so often, Genn doesn't discount my hero power. The interaction seems bugged, but I can't figure out the pattern. Has anyone else tried this and experienced something similar?
As a poor man who does not have many wild cards, I can't say I've tried it, but it sure sounds interesting.
You would think that the game would activate each "start of game" effects in a certain determined order.
But maybe it's not in the system, so sometimes C'thun goes first, sometimes Genn goes first?
Maybe it’s where they end up in the shuffled deck? Like, sometimes c’thun is sooner, so he goes first, then glen tries and fails? Just a theory. Maybe someone smart will have an actual answer soon.
My first thought would be it wouldn't activate at all like ever cause C'thun shatters only after you mulligan and Genn and Baku can be active if you manage to draw you non even/odd cards in the mulligan as your deck technically would only have even/odd cards at that point but that's not the case with C'thun. I can test it myself so I'll take your word for it but I guess at that point it comes down to who activates first, maybe (?). Is it consistent? I mean does C'thun always activate first and then Genn pops or does Genn ever activate and pops out before C'thun? Cause that could be the thing. If whoever activates first is chosen at random then that would explain the whole situation. If Genn is always supposed to activate first then there should never be an issue cause you get your discounted HP and then C'thun shatters into your deck. But if it's at random then that means C'thun can shatter first and then, when Genn checks your deck you no longer have even cards only.
Feels like a bug. Baku works with Malchezar so unsure why Genn wouldn't work with C'thun.
The weird things is it isn't consistent. I could see Genn never triggering cause there's 5-cost spells after C'Thun shatters OR Genn always triggers cause C'Thun is a 10-cost card. I feel like 85-90% of the time Genn works. Haven't played enough to have a large sample, so I'm really guessing at percentages, but 100% there is inconsistency.
100% bug.
Well that's what I'm saying. Both C'thun and Genn are shown at the start of the game as they activate their respective ability. Genn shows up if after the mulligar your deck has only even cards. You can run odd cards on an even deck but if you draw them on the mulligan stage then when Genn checks your deck then you don't have odd cards. This has been tested with cards like quests for example, cause you're guaranteed to draw them on your opening hand 100% of the times.
My question is the following. You say that Genn works around 80-90% of the times, give or take, so the quetion is if WHEN GENN ACTIVATES he always pops out on your screen before C'thun or if C'thun has activated first and then from time to time Genn will still be active. Cause that might be the difference between a random chance on the order of activation or a bug.
This is not a bug, it's how the game works (and has been confirmed).
Both Genn's and C'thun's powers are "Start of Game" triggers. They both get put into a "queue" and will trigger in the order that they are stacked (by the game).
So, If Genn triggers first, then it thinks C'thun is a 10-mana card. If C'thun triggers first, then it will put the 5-mana cards in the deck and then you won't get the HP upgrade.
You're not wrong, but Genn and Baku trigger upon deck code, maybe they're in "Should" instead idk, never had baku trigger
Thanks for the comment. I understand that each would get put into a queue and trigger in order. I've done enough programing to grasp the mechanics behind that. What I can't figure is why this would be randomized (especially since there's impact based on that order)? Just feels like sloppy programing. (I know I sound biased since I clearly want my Genn to always trigger, but) I think there should be a conditional for Genn that parses for deck state before any 'start of game' effects are triggered otherwise it doesn't feel like an actual 'start of game' effect. It's more of a 'before the game begins but after other things have happened' trigger.
Maybe it was designed to allow C'thun the Shattered to work in either odd or even decks, but is either bugged or intentionally random (not sure why it would be random, but maybe they programmed based on order in the deck)?
Edit: There are a few apparent inconsistencies here if - Prince Malzechar apparently works consistently with Genn, the actual wording "start of game" wording is the same, and also apparently Baku never activates with C'thun the Shattered?
Hey! My comment was intended as purely factual with no intended condescension or anything to that effect. (in case it was misconstrued - I could have perhaps stated it a little more explanatorily maybe)
The reason for randomisation (in my opinion as a Software Engineer - I don't have any knowledge of the actual code design) would be to help prevent manipulation of the game. If you know the exact ordering of how events will come off the queue, then you can manipulate how it works to your advantage.
Whereas Hearthstone is all about the randomisation so I suppose it makes more sense from their side to keep it as such.
Of course, that's all speculation - and it could just be lazy / sloppy coding, or a side effect of the way the system works; which isn't technically a bug, but is more just the way it plays out from a code perspective.
No condescension taken (or intended from me either)! Just speculating on my part as well. I hear you on the 'randomize all the things' ;) That does seem to be their MO. It's just my opinion, but that sees problematic with something like this. I should be able to know when I'm building my deck: either my deck will have the discount or not. It either it is manipulation by adding C'Thun, the Shattered or it's not. While I do think (and even like) that many thing could/should be be up to a flip of the coin (or random number generator), I do not think this is one of them.
PS - I'm appreciative of being able to have back and forth on a forum without being called a whiner or a troll :)
:-)
All good - and I am totally with you on the point about being able to build a deck and expect it to work consistently. In that regard, I find myself leaning more to the thought that this was perhaps simply an unintended quirk of the system.
I don't think I would classify it as a "bug" per se - I suppose that would depend on Blizzard's intended design and whether it follows the correct pattern or not. Maybe that's just making excuses for bad code on their behalf? Who knows? Perhaps! XD
The difficulty lies in the fact that this has happened in other cases with the legendary card that adds 5 more legendaries to your deck at the start of the game (hence why you could possibly say there is a "precedent" of sorts for it).
I guess only Blizzard can state if it requires "fixing" or not. Whether that is likely to happen or not, well.... ^_^
Try putting C'thun in an odd deck and seeing what happens. Will your HP upgrade half the time?
Maybe this is actually on purpose, so that C'thun fits in neither odd nor even decks.
Seems like a bug to me.
Anyway for clarification: if you have odd cost cards in your deck and get them all in the mulligan, genn will NOT trigger. This is easily tested by playing a quest in an otherwise even cost deck.
Anyone telling you otherwise is mistaken about this interaction
Has anyone tried it with Baku in an odd deck to see of there's a similar ratio of success and failure to upgrade the hero power?
hearthstone.gamepedia.com/C%27Thun,_the_Shattered
According to the hearthstone wiki page, whatever card is closer to the top of the deck triggers first. So in theory, Baku should have the same success rate as Genn.
That's not the interaction that the OP was talking about. To include a quest, that would be part of your actual built deck - quests are not added to your deck after the match has started.
OP was talking about cards that add new cards to your deck during the Start of Game phase, such as the new C'thun and Prince Malchezaar