Entire RNG spell mage is disgrace for Hearthstone and it represents game at it's worst. Since HS doesn't have many ways to interact with opponent's spells or battlecry effects, whole matchup feels uninteractive, frustrating and boring (inability to use any of your minions for like 7-8 turns straight isn't uncommon thing due to constant stream of stales and removals). Box is just nail in the coffin for your sanity.
Also, Yogg-Saron, Hope's End actually felt much more random and you never wanted the play it, when you were ahead (because it could backfire). Box on the other hand, seems to heavily favor it's user, so it can be played just for tempo, especially if you can cheat it out for less mana.
It doesn't heavily favour the user. This is you refusing to think rationally and using your own bias to keep justifying the resentment you feel. Oh and please show these games where you can't use any minions for 7-8 turns straight. In all my experience using mage this is incredibly rare. 3 or 4 maybe but stop exaggerating and being hyperbolic because you think it makes your point better. It doesn't, it very much discredits it. I'd very much like to see a sample of games where the mage gets off 8 full board freezes. I've maybe done that once and that's only because of get lucky with magic tricks, discover other magic tricks and get board freezes from the quest. You can't even have 8 board freezes in a deck so you're relying on discovering them or generating them randomly.
If it's so great, go play a spell focussed mage for 50 games and pop the box at every chance you get. Better yet, why don't you do that and record the spells cast every time and then come back and have at least some data to back up your claim?
Box varies from good, to bad, to meh. I never use it whilst ahead because it's burned me too many times. It's milled me to death more times than I care to remember or ended up burning important cards because it decides to cast skull in to hand of Guldan.
You Joan about the RNG of box but as an opponent that's better than the consistently powerful things other decks and cards can do. Brand on curve is usually much more soul destroying. There are plenty of other cards that end the game for the deck they are in but Mage has limited power tools.
The fact that your crying about a purely random card shows you how little power level they have in their own class cards. Mage has no galakrond, no charge, no healing, limited tempo or early game cards.
If you're consistently losing to box then you're just a bad player. Sure, every now and then it will steal a game but if you took it away then what are you leaving mage with as a power play? Power of creation? Yeah I'm sure the other classes are quaking.
Honestly, you lot will cry about absolutely anything that isn't letting you win over and over again. It's incredibly self centered and childish but it never changes.
" It doesn't heavily favour the user. This is you refusing to think rationally and using your own bias to keep justifying the resentment you feel."
No, it's my experience from playing the deck. After around 30-40 games I can tell, that 6/10 uses of Box favors me. It's not always to the "win the game instantly" level, but most of the time I was happy with the result.
"Oh and please show these games where you can't use any minions for 7-8 turns straight."
Like how? I'm not the streamer nor youtuber. You can find some games from other people on the internet:
"If it's so great, go play a spell focussed mage for 50 games and pop the box at every chance you get"
It's exactly what I usually do, especially if I can cheat it for less mana. Maybe except situations where I'm in really good spot with lethal in my hand in next turn or something like that.
"Better yet, why don't you do that and record the spells cast every time and then come back and have at least some data to back up your claim?"
Record How?
"Box varies from good, to bad, to meh. I never use it whilst ahead because it's burned me too many times."
That happens sometimes too, but in my experience it's like 4 out of 10 times.
"You Joan about the RNG of box but as an opponent that's better than the consistently powerful things other decks and cards can do"
No it's not. Even powerful things can be played around, RNG cannot.
"The fact that your crying about a purely random card"
Who's crying? I'm certainly not, so maybe you should wipe your own tears of bias?
"how little power level they have in their own class cards. Mage has no galakrond, no charge, no healing, limited tempo or early game cards."
And who said that mage is too strong or OP? Yes, he is ruining the Hearthstone because of stupid RNG, but it has nothing to do with power level. It simply crushes player experience and suck all of his enjoyment of the game (it's only fun for the mage player).
"If you're consistently losing to box then you're just a bad player"
I never said so, but you are making yet another unsupported assumption, because everything must match your point of view? How pathetic of you...
" It doesn't heavily favour the user. This is you refusing to think rationally and using your own bias to keep justifying the resentment you feel."
No, it's my experience from playing the deck. After around 30-40 games I can tell, that 6/10 uses of Box favors me. It's not always to the "win the game instantly" level, but most of the time I was happy with the result.
It is a 10-mana spell that favors you only ~60% of the time that you cast it, that doesn't sound so great. From my experience based on all the games played against Mage, the box on average does benefit the side the casts it (naturally), but doesn't have such a high impact given that it is a 10 mana spell. So if it just clears your opponent's board or it just summons 1-2 minions for you that's not good enough.
Of course most of the time the Mage doesn't pay 10 mana for it so it's not that bad. 8 mana - play a 5/5 (or 6 mana - play a 4/4) and cast a Box is probably a fair/decent deal on average
Puzzlebox is not the only insane rng generating card in the game that can major and decisive swings in a match. Because of this, I don't find the game very interesting or fun to play. Time to try other games...I discovered Ark survival evolved (got it for free!!!) and its tons of fun and extremely addictive..I'll certainly come back to HS, maybe for the new expansion.
Of course, but if you consider that this card can sometimes swing match from lose to win, I'd say it's still worth it. Also, unlike for example big priest from the past, based heavily on early Barnes, It's not like the whole deck is built around just one card. While Box can help in certain situations, spell mage can still perform pretty well even without it. It's the icing on the cake in this deck.
Ofcourse, but if you consider that this card can sometimes swing match from lose to win, I'd say it's still worth it.
..and that is the problem with the card in my opinion. Originally the biggest swing card in Hearthstone was Deathwing and he comes with a huge trade off. He very rarely see's play outside of discovered dragons.
Puzzle box is a card which broadly has no downside at the time you choose to play it. If you're behind on board and it doesn't help you would probably have lost anyway and lets be honest, if you play it while you're ahead on board you're doing it wrong.
As others have also said, the fact that it is rarely played for 10 mana is also problematic (but lets face it, Blizzard seems to reaallly love mana cheating so I don't think this part of the game is ever going to change).
Ask yourself if a card that had a 40% chance to win right there would be used? Personally I think it would be auto include in most decks as it give you a chance (even if it's less than a 50/50) to win that game you are otherwise losing. Puzzle box seems a little bit like that card imo.
It would be interesting if the box were something like "Use all available mana and cast when drawn". Not sure too many people would use it then.
Who cares. Barely anyone plays mage. It's all druid and demon hunter (same as pre nerf). If mage can sometimes win because it can get a box vs druid and demon hunter whatever. It loses so easily to HL Hunter if it gets out of hand. Other than the trash tier classes (paladin, shaman and warlock) it's the least played and it is for a reason. Unfavoured vs aggro DH. Can't beat HL Hunter outside a massive highroll and the druid matchup is pretty bad too since mage plays no early minions and the only way to beat druid is to put heaps of numbers on the board early game (either a big edwin or questing or go wide) or play with two of every freeze spell to freeze them out until reno.
Mage beats priest and rogue but when most of the meta is DH, Druid and HL Hunter it doesn't help much. So if they can get a box that sometimes wins whatever. Usually won't save them from HL Hunter.
I love playing highlander mage but cannot stand puzzle box....can't stand playing it, can't stand having it played against me. Whenever I roll the dice I can usually count on my face getting damaged/frozen, overdrawing and the destruction of a minion or two. After all the spells have cast my reaction is more often than not, "I'm not sure that was worth it".
When it gets played against me I can usually count on my opponent getting healed, granted +8 attack and acquiring a board full of buffed taunts.
If you think of it as a 10 mana Plague of Death it becomes easier to play around. It doesn't usually improve mage's side of the board, so it's more like a board clear.
Lots of confirmation bias showing up in this thread.
I do know that, two games in a row, the box made me cast Sprint twice. Mages already play with decent sized hands most of the time, soooo I burned a shit ton of my own cards haha. One of those times it even threw in the Skull of Gul'dan (so, yes, the box made me draw a whopping 11 cards). Playing on turn 5 or 6 has its risks too, because of this.
I know it sounds difficult to play around, but yeah, just play around it like a 10 mana Plague of Death. I'd say it's probably closer to 50/50 good vs bad, but yeah you should only ever use the card as an absolute last resort.
I'd say the problem, if there is one, is that Mage is all RNG. It's the box, the prime, the legendary spell, the 8-cost discover, the 4 cost twinspell, the quest, Reno, the new secret, the new 5 damage spell, and the Alex. A few RNG dependent cards is fine, but RNG is the entire strategy for Mage right now.
I think it's good in the sense that it forces control value decks out of the game. You have to have ways to finish your opponent. It's not an obvious benefit, because we don't have that problem in this meta... and it's partially because of her.
PB would get nerfed if Mage would be actually moving things in meta, but since thats not the case (in Standart) and DH and Highlander Hunter are all walking over them, one of the most ridicolous cards in HS history (which of course is PB) will remain untouched. Such scenario will be especially unpleasant for future Card design and next expansions, which might or might not make Mage one of the most annoying Opponents to deal in ladder, since the card single handedly makes someone (deservedly) far behind in the game....actually turning it around and STEALING the game, which is just horrible game design, and Blizzard already learned this lesson from the past, yet they repeat it, but 0 Mana Yogg Saron which can be added twice is just WAY over the Top cancerous, at least make it a Legendary spell.
People actually thinking HS is a skill game in 2020 never fails to amaze. Stop thinking about it as a competitive game, and just accept that it's currently for the most part just a casual rng game.
From mage perspective, it seems fun as you just wait turn five or six and cast the box. Then most of the time the game is decided.
In my view, after facing puzzle box in three games consecutively, feel like I am wasting my energy and wanna quit Hearthstone. What do you guy think?
I think you are wrong it RnG it’s just yogg some times we win with if sometimes we don’t it like hope prayer when we do it. I think you need to get fresh air if your bitching about the box.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It doesn't heavily favour the user. This is you refusing to think rationally and using your own bias to keep justifying the resentment you feel. Oh and please show these games where you can't use any minions for 7-8 turns straight. In all my experience using mage this is incredibly rare. 3 or 4 maybe but stop exaggerating and being hyperbolic because you think it makes your point better. It doesn't, it very much discredits it. I'd very much like to see a sample of games where the mage gets off 8 full board freezes. I've maybe done that once and that's only because of get lucky with magic tricks, discover other magic tricks and get board freezes from the quest. You can't even have 8 board freezes in a deck so you're relying on discovering them or generating them randomly.
If it's so great, go play a spell focussed mage for 50 games and pop the box at every chance you get. Better yet, why don't you do that and record the spells cast every time and then come back and have at least some data to back up your claim?
Box varies from good, to bad, to meh. I never use it whilst ahead because it's burned me too many times. It's milled me to death more times than I care to remember or ended up burning important cards because it decides to cast skull in to hand of Guldan.
You Joan about the RNG of box but as an opponent that's better than the consistently powerful things other decks and cards can do. Brand on curve is usually much more soul destroying. There are plenty of other cards that end the game for the deck they are in but Mage has limited power tools.
The fact that your crying about a purely random card shows you how little power level they have in their own class cards. Mage has no galakrond, no charge, no healing, limited tempo or early game cards.
If you're consistently losing to box then you're just a bad player. Sure, every now and then it will steal a game but if you took it away then what are you leaving mage with as a power play? Power of creation? Yeah I'm sure the other classes are quaking.
Honestly, you lot will cry about absolutely anything that isn't letting you win over and over again. It's incredibly self centered and childish but it never changes.
You must have a great gaming chair....
I'll get 1000 tilting losses to crazy boxes over the daily one-strict-archetype-per-class routine we witness in ladder AND CASUAL!
Oh, I forgot about the return of pirate warrior! Everybody rejoice!!!
It is a 10-mana spell that favors you only ~60% of the time that you cast it, that doesn't sound so great. From my experience based on all the games played against Mage, the box on average does benefit the side the casts it (naturally), but doesn't have such a high impact given that it is a 10 mana spell. So if it just clears your opponent's board or it just summons 1-2 minions for you that's not good enough.
Of course most of the time the Mage doesn't pay 10 mana for it so it's not that bad. 8 mana - play a 5/5 (or 6 mana - play a 4/4) and cast a Box is probably a fair/decent deal on average
Puzzlebox is not the only insane rng generating card in the game that can major and decisive swings in a match. Because of this, I don't find the game very interesting or fun to play. Time to try other games...I discovered Ark survival evolved (got it for free!!!) and its tons of fun and extremely addictive..I'll certainly come back to HS, maybe for the new expansion.
It's amazing how people after playing the game for years can't see what this game is all about
It's like you go in a cinema to see an adult movie and then you are surprised because they do that kind of stuff
@SirJohn13
Of course, but if you consider that this card can sometimes swing match from lose to win, I'd say it's still worth it. Also, unlike for example big priest from the past, based heavily on early Barnes, It's not like the whole deck is built around just one card. While Box can help in certain situations, spell mage can still perform pretty well even without it. It's the icing on the cake in this deck.
..and that is the problem with the card in my opinion. Originally the biggest swing card in Hearthstone was Deathwing and he comes with a huge trade off. He very rarely see's play outside of discovered dragons.
Puzzle box is a card which broadly has no downside at the time you choose to play it. If you're behind on board and it doesn't help you would probably have lost anyway and lets be honest, if you play it while you're ahead on board you're doing it wrong.
As others have also said, the fact that it is rarely played for 10 mana is also problematic (but lets face it, Blizzard seems to reaallly love mana cheating so I don't think this part of the game is ever going to change).
Ask yourself if a card that had a 40% chance to win right there would be used? Personally I think it would be auto include in most decks as it give you a chance (even if it's less than a 50/50) to win that game you are otherwise losing. Puzzle box seems a little bit like that card imo.
It would be interesting if the box were something like "Use all available mana and cast when drawn". Not sure too many people would use it then.
Who cares. Barely anyone plays mage. It's all druid and demon hunter (same as pre nerf). If mage can sometimes win because it can get a box vs druid and demon hunter whatever. It loses so easily to HL Hunter if it gets out of hand. Other than the trash tier classes (paladin, shaman and warlock) it's the least played and it is for a reason. Unfavoured vs aggro DH. Can't beat HL Hunter outside a massive highroll and the druid matchup is pretty bad too since mage plays no early minions and the only way to beat druid is to put heaps of numbers on the board early game (either a big edwin or questing or go wide) or play with two of every freeze spell to freeze them out until reno.
Mage beats priest and rogue but when most of the meta is DH, Druid and HL Hunter it doesn't help much. So if they can get a box that sometimes wins whatever. Usually won't save them from HL Hunter.
I love playing highlander mage but cannot stand puzzle box....can't stand playing it, can't stand having it played against me. Whenever I roll the dice I can usually count on my face getting damaged/frozen, overdrawing and the destruction of a minion or two. After all the spells have cast my reaction is more often than not, "I'm not sure that was worth it".
When it gets played against me I can usually count on my opponent getting healed, granted +8 attack and acquiring a board full of buffed taunts.
If you think of it as a 10 mana Plague of Death it becomes easier to play around. It doesn't usually improve mage's side of the board, so it's more like a board clear.
Lots of confirmation bias showing up in this thread.
I do know that, two games in a row, the box made me cast Sprint twice. Mages already play with decent sized hands most of the time, soooo I burned a shit ton of my own cards haha. One of those times it even threw in the Skull of Gul'dan (so, yes, the box made me draw a whopping 11 cards). Playing on turn 5 or 6 has its risks too, because of this.
I know it sounds difficult to play around, but yeah, just play around it like a 10 mana Plague of Death. I'd say it's probably closer to 50/50 good vs bad, but yeah you should only ever use the card as an absolute last resort.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
if you believe that hearthstone is random you can tolerate the puzzlebox, if you realize it is rigged, you hate it.
I'd say the problem, if there is one, is that Mage is all RNG. It's the box, the prime, the legendary spell, the 8-cost discover, the 4 cost twinspell, the quest, Reno, the new secret, the new 5 damage spell, and the Alex. A few RNG dependent cards is fine, but RNG is the entire strategy for Mage right now.
I think it's good in the sense that it forces control value decks out of the game. You have to have ways to finish your opponent. It's not an obvious benefit, because we don't have that problem in this meta... and it's partially because of her.
Box in a nutshell:
Watch at your own risk (it may make you puke).
PB would get nerfed if Mage would be actually moving things in meta, but since thats not the case (in Standart) and DH and Highlander Hunter are all walking over them, one of the most ridicolous cards in HS history (which of course is PB) will remain untouched. Such scenario will be especially unpleasant for future Card design and next expansions, which might or might not make Mage one of the most annoying Opponents to deal in ladder, since the card single handedly makes someone (deservedly) far behind in the game....actually turning it around and STEALING the game, which is just horrible game design, and Blizzard already learned this lesson from the past, yet they repeat it, but 0 Mana Yogg Saron which can be added twice is just WAY over the Top cancerous, at least make it a Legendary spell.
People actually thinking HS is a skill game in 2020 never fails to amaze. Stop thinking about it as a competitive game, and just accept that it's currently for the most part just a casual rng game.
I think you are wrong it RnG it’s just yogg some times we win with if sometimes we don’t it like hope prayer when we do it. I think you need to get fresh air if your bitching about the box.