But it's also a stealth buff to something like Myra Rotspring. That will almost certainly not be relevant because that card's stats are straight doodoo, but it's worth noting. The buff to power of creation is certainly relevant. Ditto for Togwaggle, although the wand is still usually the choice.
Heistbaron Togwaggle does not draw from a random pool. He is not affected by this change.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Does anyone know how the numbers break down? Because you can still get warrior cards off of discoveries it's just not as consistent. Would be nice to see actual breakdowns.
Does anyone know how the numbers break down? Because you can still get warrior cards off of discoveries it's just not as consistent. Would be nice to see actual breakdowns.
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
I love the change from a balance perspective, but admittedly this probably makes the game less fun from a casual perspective. Discover is a huge part of why I play, and class cards tend to be a bit more interesting on the average.
I can live with it, though. I know "mana cheating" tends to draw the most ire among Hearthstone players, but I think there's also a fair amount of salt generated from having to deal with three or four copies of a powerful card in a game that intentionally limits you to just two in the deck-building process.
Ya, I ended up cutting it from all my decks, including renolock after he kept giving me nothing but neutral garbage taunts rather than Voidlord or other demon taunts which I could then cheat out with Voidcaller [/card] or [card]krul the unshackled. Also cut Dark Peddler when he likes to offer me 1 mana wisps.
This change was long overdue. I'm glad it happened now.
That change should have happened more than a year ago when Odd Paladin was somehow allowed to play with Sunkeeper Tarim and/or Tirion Fordring almost each game even though it had no business doing so... whatever, better late than never.
Now the whiners will stop complaining about how unskilled and brain-dead control warrior is, in favor of bitching about how unskillful and brain-dead aggro decks are.
This is such an optimistic view of the HS and Pwn community [kappa]
But seriously, no one will ever stop complaining about CW until it's T3 or lower again, and only then will thy complain about unfun, non-interactive T1 decks like murloc pally. People hate control more than they hate aggro imbalance
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Literally just crafted 2 Town Criers and Boom, Mad Genius yesterday as well after getting bored of quest shaman. I was wondering why I was getting such garbage discovers today but I guess that answers that. Classic Blizzard move to nerf cards/ decks in a way that avoids giving dust refunds.
It's not like CW is unplayable, it is a small nerf.
it is unplayable, you will see it this week at GMs
Now the whiners will stop complaining about how unskilled and brain-dead control warrior is, in favor of bitching about how unskillful and brain-dead aggro decks are.
This is such an optimistic view of the HS and Pwn community [kappa]
But seriously, no one will ever stop complaining about CW until it's T3 or lower again, and only then will thy complain about unfun, non-interactive T1 decks like murloc pally. People hate control more than they hate aggro imbalance
I'm not an optimist and my view is towards the Hearthpwn Community not the entire community. But thanks for assuming otherwise [kappa]
Tbh if you needed to roll 9 Omega Devastators to win a match, CW probably wasn't the deck for you anyway. Overall this is clearly a nerf but Warriors do now have increased access to Zilliax, SN1p-SN4P, Mechanical Whelp and a couple of other niche Mechs that can be used creatively to make interesting plays. Flunky is unfortunate but Warrior only have 3 Taunts in standard so this was dumb anyway.
Elysiana takes a nasty hit but on the plus side more access to Body Wrapper is a good thing for any matchup in which she is relevant.
Ultimately although this change weakens Control Warrior over all, I think it opens up some opportunities for more skilled players with greater game knowledge to take advantage of the changes to the discover pools, particularly in mirror matches, rather than just high rolling Devastators and Gun Moles 12 times per game and annihilating people.
Literally just crafted 2 Town Criers and Boom, Mad Genius yesterday as well after getting bored of quest shaman. I was wondering why I was getting such garbage discovers today but I guess that answers that. Classic Blizzard move to nerf cards/ decks in a way that avoids giving dust refunds.
Tested a bit of Control Warrior last night because Zoo was all over the ladder. Frightened Flunky is so much worse now. So much so that it has me rethinking the "taunt" package.
I mean, you probably still run it, because obviously Control Warrior should have some of the best early game minions available in standard. /sarcasm
I know many are happy about the Discover changes, but I think it's a huge mistake. The whole point of Discover cards was to get something in your class more often than not. It wasn't always a sure thing, but playing the card meant you weren't getting complete random garbage from Discover cards.
Why are people happy about this? This turns Discover cards into RNG factories and the whole point of Discover was to eliminate the purely random stuff that can win or lose you games because you 'got lucky' or 'unlucky'.
More randomness is NOT needed in Hearthstone. This really takes the skill testing and playing around 'known' cards that the Discover cards could fetch for you. Now you can' t play around anything.
And before anyone makes a comment regarding me playing Control Warrior...I do. But I also play ALL of the classes fairly evenly. I jump around based on my mood. I have over 500 wins with all the classes, so before those comments flare up, just wanted to negate that.
Do you want your Hearthstone game to be more RNG and less thinking or playing around known cards? There are so many ways to play around what Control Warrior does. Sure, they can get 10 Omega Devastator's in the game. I can still beat them with other decks.
This is exactly like the nerf to Tess. They specifically stated that Tess would work like the pre-nerf Yogg. They boasted this fact and showed it on stream. Then they nerfed Tess to be exactly like post-nerf Yogg completely killing the power level of the card. They had to revert back to the pre-nerf Tess because not only did people complain (rightly so), they said it was going to work a specific way because they designed it that way. To go back on that is terrible.
Discover cards were and are specifically designed FROM THE BEGINNING to get you class cards more often. It's why you play them. Getting complete random crap drastically weakens the card. Weakens the skill testing of your opponent and weakens the game of Hearthstone overall.
People who are happy with this change do not realize this has lasting impacts far beyond nerfing Control Warrior. This is terrible for the game and goes completely against what Discover was supposed to represent.
If these numbers are correct....
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
Then this is not a simple tweak to power levels of cards. This is a huge nerf that they tried to sneak into the patch without drawing attention to it. This is disingenuous and there are so many ways to 'fix' the cards people are unhappy with, but instead, they nerfed all of the Discover cards (that used to pull from class cards).
How can anyone look at the numbers above and think....'That's fine. Nothing to see here. At least Warrior gets hosed.'
Can someone explain to me how they think more RNG is good for Hearthstone?
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
In fairness, those numbers were always subject to change based upon the available card pool.
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
In fairness, those numbers were always subject to change based upon the available card pool.
Of course, as in Wild the card pool is so much larger that you will not get another Flunky at the same rates. And as more cards are legal in Standard, that will also change. Regardless, it doesn't address the blatant disregard for the Discover mechanic in general. It doesn't reward you for playing smart. Now it's all random. Now the above numbers mean nothing as everything is equally likely. Great.
How do you fix Discover without gutting it. you ask?
Some others have already suggested some of these ideas, so I won't take credit for all of them.
1. Discover a card not in your deck or your hand. The word implies that you are finding something new. I would keep the class favortism, but no more getting 5 Omega Devastators in the game if you have it in your deck or hand. This is how you balance Discover without gutting it and making it unplayable and RNG BS.
2. Discover cards that didnt start in your deck. Since the game engine is capable of identifying what 'start of the game' means, you can check to see if your deck contains specific cards. If your deck does contain Flunky, then you cannot Discover another Flunky with either if you play 2 in the deck.
3. Discover a card that has not been played at all during the game so far. If a Flunky has been played, then you cannot get a Flunky.
Discover should be exciting and with any of the ideas above, could even change how people build decks. You know, make people have to think about their plays and their deck building. Something that RNG does not allow you to do.
I know many are happy about the Discover changes, but I think it's a huge mistake. The whole point of Discover cards was to get something in your class more often than not. It wasn't always a sure thing, but playing the card meant you weren't getting complete random garbage from Discover cards.
Why are people happy about this? This turns Discover cards into RNG factories and the whole point of Discover was to eliminate the purely random stuff that can win or lose you games because you 'got lucky' or 'unlucky'.
More randomness is NOT needed in Hearthstone. This really takes the skill testing and playing around 'known' cards that the Discover cards could fetch for you. Now you can' t play around anything.
And before anyone makes a comment regarding me playing Control Warrior...I do. But I also play ALL of the classes fairly evenly. I jump around based on my mood. I have over 500 wins with all the classes, so before those comments flare up, just wanted to negate that.
Do you want your Hearthstone game to be more RNG and less thinking or playing around known cards? There are so many ways to play around what Control Warrior does. Sure, they can get 10 Omega Devastator's in the game. I can still beat them with other decks.
This is exactly like the nerf to Tess. They specifically stated that Tess would work like the pre-nerf Yogg. They boasted this fact and showed it on stream. Then they nerfed Tess to be exactly like post-nerf Yogg completely killing the power level of the card. They had to revert back to the pre-nerf Tess because not only did people complain (rightly so), they said it was going to work a specific way because they designed it that way. To go back on that is terrible.
Discover cards were and are specifically designed FROM THE BEGINNING to get you class cards more often. It's why you play them. Getting complete random crap drastically weakens the card. Weakens the skill testing of your opponent and weakens the game of Hearthstone overall.
People who are happy with this change do not realize this has lasting impacts far beyond nerfing Control Warrior. This is terrible for the game and goes completely against what Discover was supposed to represent.
If these numbers are correct....
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
Then this is not a simple tweak to power levels of cards. This is a huge nerf that they tried to sneak into the patch without drawing attention to it. This is disingenuous and there are so many ways to 'fix' the cards people are unhappy with, but instead, they nerfed all of the Discover cards (that used to pull from class cards).
How can anyone look at the numbers above and think....'That's fine. Nothing to see here. At least Warrior gets hosed.'
Can someone explain to me how they think more RNG is good for Hearthstone?
Thank you!
I feel the same. They are changing a basic rule because certain ROTATING cards are too strong in the CURRENT standard meta. This is just dumb.
Before anyone says "CW player spotted" I play more Power of Creation than Frightened Flunky, so I should feel lucky for the buff. But on the long run, and also in wild this is a bad change IMO.
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Heistbaron Togwaggle does not draw from a random pool. He is not affected by this change.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
This change was long overdue. I'm glad it happened now.
It's obvious I meant in regards to Zargog's Crown, but thanks anyway.
Does anyone know how the numbers break down? Because you can still get warrior cards off of discoveries it's just not as consistent. Would be nice to see actual breakdowns.
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc.
Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
I love the change from a balance perspective, but admittedly this probably makes the game less fun from a casual perspective. Discover is a huge part of why I play, and class cards tend to be a bit more interesting on the average.
I can live with it, though. I know "mana cheating" tends to draw the most ire among Hearthstone players, but I think there's also a fair amount of salt generated from having to deal with three or four copies of a powerful card in a game that intentionally limits you to just two in the deck-building process.
Ya, I ended up cutting it from all my decks, including renolock after he kept giving me nothing but neutral garbage taunts rather than Voidlord or other demon taunts which I could then cheat out with Voidcaller [/card] or [card]krul the unshackled. Also cut Dark Peddler when he likes to offer me 1 mana wisps.
I am sad that many fun low power cards became even weaker in wild but this is a good change, especially for arena.
That change should have happened more than a year ago when Odd Paladin was somehow allowed to play with Sunkeeper Tarim and/or Tirion Fordring almost each game even though it had no business doing so... whatever, better late than never.
This is such an optimistic view of the HS and Pwn community [kappa]
But seriously, no one will ever stop complaining about CW until it's T3 or lower again, and only then will thy complain about unfun, non-interactive T1 decks like murloc pally. People hate control more than they hate aggro imbalance
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
it is unplayable, you will see it this week at GMs
I'm not an optimist and my view is towards the Hearthpwn Community not the entire community. But thanks for assuming otherwise [kappa]
Tbh if you needed to roll 9 Omega Devastators to win a match, CW probably wasn't the deck for you anyway. Overall this is clearly a nerf but Warriors do now have increased access to Zilliax, SN1p-SN4P, Mechanical Whelp and a couple of other niche Mechs that can be used creatively to make interesting plays. Flunky is unfortunate but Warrior only have 3 Taunts in standard so this was dumb anyway.
Elysiana takes a nasty hit but on the plus side more access to Body Wrapper is a good thing for any matchup in which she is relevant.
Ultimately although this change weakens Control Warrior over all, I think it opens up some opportunities for more skilled players with greater game knowledge to take advantage of the changes to the discover pools, particularly in mirror matches, rather than just high rolling Devastators and Gun Moles 12 times per game and annihilating people.
Don't worry CW is still bonkers.
Tested a bit of Control Warrior last night because Zoo was all over the ladder. Frightened Flunky is so much worse now. So much so that it has me rethinking the "taunt" package.
I mean, you probably still run it, because obviously Control Warrior should have some of the best early game minions available in standard. /sarcasm
I know many are happy about the Discover changes, but I think it's a huge mistake. The whole point of Discover cards was to get something in your class more often than not. It wasn't always a sure thing, but playing the card meant you weren't getting complete random garbage from Discover cards.
Why are people happy about this? This turns Discover cards into RNG factories and the whole point of Discover was to eliminate the purely random stuff that can win or lose you games because you 'got lucky' or 'unlucky'.
More randomness is NOT needed in Hearthstone. This really takes the skill testing and playing around 'known' cards that the Discover cards could fetch for you. Now you can' t play around anything.
And before anyone makes a comment regarding me playing Control Warrior...I do. But I also play ALL of the classes fairly evenly. I jump around based on my mood. I have over 500 wins with all the classes, so before those comments flare up, just wanted to negate that.
Do you want your Hearthstone game to be more RNG and less thinking or playing around known cards? There are so many ways to play around what Control Warrior does. Sure, they can get 10 Omega Devastator's in the game. I can still beat them with other decks.
This is exactly like the nerf to Tess. They specifically stated that Tess would work like the pre-nerf Yogg. They boasted this fact and showed it on stream. Then they nerfed Tess to be exactly like post-nerf Yogg completely killing the power level of the card. They had to revert back to the pre-nerf Tess because not only did people complain (rightly so), they said it was going to work a specific way because they designed it that way. To go back on that is terrible.
Discover cards were and are specifically designed FROM THE BEGINNING to get you class cards more often. It's why you play them. Getting complete random crap drastically weakens the card. Weakens the skill testing of your opponent and weakens the game of Hearthstone overall.
People who are happy with this change do not realize this has lasting impacts far beyond nerfing Control Warrior. This is terrible for the game and goes completely against what Discover was supposed to represent.
If these numbers are correct....
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc.
Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
Then this is not a simple tweak to power levels of cards. This is a huge nerf that they tried to sneak into the patch without drawing attention to it. This is disingenuous and there are so many ways to 'fix' the cards people are unhappy with, but instead, they nerfed all of the Discover cards (that used to pull from class cards).
How can anyone look at the numbers above and think....'That's fine. Nothing to see here. At least Warrior gets hosed.'
Can someone explain to me how they think more RNG is good for Hearthstone?
In fairness, those numbers were always subject to change based upon the available card pool.
Of course, as in Wild the card pool is so much larger that you will not get another Flunky at the same rates. And as more cards are legal in Standard, that will also change. Regardless, it doesn't address the blatant disregard for the Discover mechanic in general. It doesn't reward you for playing smart. Now it's all random. Now the above numbers mean nothing as everything is equally likely. Great.
How do you fix Discover without gutting it. you ask?
Some others have already suggested some of these ideas, so I won't take credit for all of them.
1. Discover a card not in your deck or your hand. The word implies that you are finding something new. I would keep the class favortism, but no more getting 5 Omega Devastators in the game if you have it in your deck or hand. This is how you balance Discover without gutting it and making it unplayable and RNG BS.
2. Discover cards that didnt start in your deck. Since the game engine is capable of identifying what 'start of the game' means, you can check to see if your deck contains specific cards. If your deck does contain Flunky, then you cannot Discover another Flunky with either if you play 2 in the deck.
3. Discover a card that has not been played at all during the game so far. If a Flunky has been played, then you cannot get a Flunky.
Discover should be exciting and with any of the ideas above, could even change how people build decks. You know, make people have to think about their plays and their deck building. Something that RNG does not allow you to do.
Thank you!
I feel the same. They are changing a basic rule because certain ROTATING cards are too strong in the CURRENT standard meta. This is just dumb.
Before anyone says "CW player spotted" I play more Power of Creation than Frightened Flunky, so I should feel lucky for the buff. But on the long run, and also in wild this is a bad change IMO.