just dont watch streamers, i dont even bother anymore now to watch them it kills all hype for new decks.
i will play stuff thats funy to me not for them and they All go for the best decks anyway so not my beer, my decks will be maby t3 but i dont carre at least i have fun the first few hours...
Yeah, as for holding a grudge for all the preferential treatment for streamers . . .
That's never going away.
The evidence is indisputable that streamer interaction is one of the most effective market strategies for microtransactions and "ongoing purchases" (such as card packs of new sets for an existing card game). These guys have the power to push sales. That's all there is to it.
On the bright side, there are dozens of games out there that have such small communities, if you want to try your hand at influencing, the market is ripe. I'd do it if I could, but don't have the streaming equipment.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Well, back in the early days of HS there was no thing such as HSReplay or regular meta snapshots (the first VS report came out in 2016, although Tempostorm started in 2015 IIRC). Nobody could just go ahead and check which card has the highest % impact when drawn/played/whatsoever. Also, Twitch and their streamers weren't as popular and widely known as they are nowadays, apart from a few big ones (e.g. Amaz or Kripp) and on top of that, players were far less experienced both in deck building and how to pilot them.
Sure, a pre-release stream might lead to more players using copypasted day 1 lists but it would be delusional to think that without such events people would want to experiment considerably more. Remember that many of the wacky decks tend to be expensive as fuck and most people cannot afford to gamble with huge amounts of dust.
I've deliberately avoided all the pre-release stuff. I plan to make a Quest / Control / Underbelly Ooze Priest, and I don't care if anyone else has made it first.
Normaly in the first week after release you still see a lot of new deck ideas and experimanting on ladder. In RR we had also the streamer early access but there was still lots of experimentation in week one.
However i think the time for streamers prerelease is a bit high it should be like 2 days ahead not almost a week imo.
It is up to each person to play to their liking, there are those who prefer to create decks trying several combinations at will and those who copy decks.
From my point of view, people who copy decks ruin their surprise and experience (I am not against anyone) since creating for oneself feels better because you learn more about how to focus on that deck. I will create my own combinations and I will settle for few victories. And if I lose a lot I simply refine the deck. Besides the decks do not play alone, you need to understand how they are played depending on the archetype.
I really dislike all the pre-release benefits that hearthstone "influencers" are starting to be awarded.
You have some people trying to go "unspoiled" until expansion time, meanwhile Blizzard is trying to artificially inflate hype by showing YouTubers having fun before everyone else. And let's not forget the fireside gathering pre-release events.
Seems like everyone forgot when RegisKillbin uploaded his card reviews for the first few Rise of Shadows cards... BEFORE the official reveal trailer was even released.
Yes, it sucks. It has ruined the “discovery” element for me, the best part of new expansions.
The solution is probably to just stop watching streams though. Streamers like Thijs have just devolved into social marketing anyway, they are so deep in Blizzard’s pocket. It is advertainment.
I want to say that I completely agree with people who said about streamers that are making terrible starting days of the expansion. It has made a lot of people into becoming short-sighted gamers.
It's okay if you wanna try out their decks, but If any of you are going to rely on what only streamers on what decks they are trying, rather than playing an actual possible good decks out there... then I'm sorry, It is a true fact that those kinds of players are heavily uninspired or unmotivated to play a game or least enjoy the game, and are definitely not a type of encouraged player.
But otherwise, you are a smart player if you believed that there is a simple and straightforward way to play Heartstone, like normally, you can either a netdecking, or inventing a good deck. so you can play and enjoy a goddamn game.
"Edgy quote about being too smart and suffering for it" - Literally who - 1890 Yes I am better than you, my signature implies it. Annoying Random colours.
I don't know who downplays experimentation, but those are the sort of people who should go play some other game. CCGs are all about experimentation and original decks, at least in their ideal form.
I don't know who downplays experimentation, but those are the sort of people who should go play some other game. CCGs are all about experimentation and original decks, at least in their ideal form.
As a deckbuilder, I can very proudly say I would not be where I'm at today if I didn't borrow ideas from other streamers\meta decks. While I like all my decks to be mine in the end, deckbuilding is a craft that, like all crafts, requires a significant amount of study in order to master. You wouldn't try to become an author without opening a single book, or a filmmaker without ever watching a movie. Likewise, trying to build a deck without looking at what other people before you have done is a recipe for failure.
Once I dipped into the streaming scene, I went from building original decks that could make it to Rank 10 to building original decks that could make it to Legend. I can't advocate for it enough, especially with all these new Reno archetypes coming out. No one should ever feel ashamed to ask for help. The path to greatness isn't meant to be traveled alone.
To add onto what is being said, its partly because certain cards getting nerfed or fame'd, usually because of older cards and their interactions with newer ones. That those that get nerfed or fame'd result in reduced creativity in the pool as certain cards are less valuable to run in general or that you can't run anymore unless you want to go into wild.
The streamers always spend the first few days trying to make new wonky decks work. You know what no streamer has been playing since Saviors was unlocked for them? Control Warrior and Conjurer's Mage. This, despite the fact that there is no real reason to believe either of these decks are getting knocked off the t1 positions they occupied the last few months.
When you watch a bunch of your favorite players engaging in memery without any thought to actual competition, you might become convinced that certain new cards are essential to decks that will win. Inevitably, most of these decks will turn out to be garbage, but if you craft the Paladin quest in the meantime, all the better.
I've been saying for years, hold all crafting for SEVERAL weeks after a new set. But no one listens. And this is the best model to encourage impulsive crafting. Not that I'm blaming Blizzard. Fools and their dust are soon parted. But I suspect that is what's going on.
On one hand, you have a good point. On the other hand, Im gonna "waste" my dust because Im getting new toys and I want to play with new toys. Surely some of my decks will fail, but for me HS is not just about winning. Its about playing with new toys.
Yes, fair enough, I just mean that a lot of budget players end up looking at it as "waste" because they are initially under the impression that they are crafting competitive cards, and that belief is only created by an artificially memey meta in this prerelease time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
At the event, the streamers were instructed to build decks showing off the new cards. Trust me, no one was "figuring out the new meta" at that event. It was more about just seeing how the new cards work and interact.
On the other hand, there were a lot of pros who did not attend the event but got early access anyway. These guys actually did tryhard and did start the meta-solving process. They played a few meme decks, too, but not many.
The company line is that they had to give all the pros equal access so no one could claim unfair disadvantage in the upcoming tournaments, but it seems to me, the way around that problem would be to NOT invite any streamers who are also pros, and force everyone at the event to play recipe decks ONLY.
So it's a middle ground. The intent was mostly harmless, but Blizzard could have handled it a LOT better. As usual.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
just dont watch streamers, i dont even bother anymore now to watch them it kills all hype for new decks.
i will play stuff thats funy to me not for them and they All go for the best decks anyway so not my beer, my decks will be maby t3 but i dont carre at least i have fun the first few hours...
Expansion ain’t even out yet
Yeah, as for holding a grudge for all the preferential treatment for streamers . . .
That's never going away.
The evidence is indisputable that streamer interaction is one of the most effective market strategies for microtransactions and "ongoing purchases" (such as card packs of new sets for an existing card game). These guys have the power to push sales. That's all there is to it.
On the bright side, there are dozens of games out there that have such small communities, if you want to try your hand at influencing, the market is ripe. I'd do it if I could, but don't have the streaming equipment.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
basically the majority of players ruin their gaming experience by themselves
just copy decks, then bitch and moan why the game feels boring and not fun at all
notice something yet?
Well, back in the early days of HS there was no thing such as HSReplay or regular meta snapshots (the first VS report came out in 2016, although Tempostorm started in 2015 IIRC). Nobody could just go ahead and check which card has the highest % impact when drawn/played/whatsoever. Also, Twitch and their streamers weren't as popular and widely known as they are nowadays, apart from a few big ones (e.g. Amaz or Kripp) and on top of that, players were far less experienced both in deck building and how to pilot them.
Sure, a pre-release stream might lead to more players using copypasted day 1 lists but it would be delusional to think that without such events people would want to experiment considerably more. Remember that many of the wacky decks tend to be expensive as fuck and most people cannot afford to gamble with huge amounts of dust.
I've deliberately avoided all the pre-release stuff. I plan to make a Quest / Control / Underbelly Ooze Priest, and I don't care if anyone else has made it first.
Normaly in the first week after release you still see a lot of new deck ideas and experimanting on ladder. In RR we had also the streamer early access but there was still lots of experimentation in week one.
However i think the time for streamers prerelease is a bit high it should be like 2 days ahead not almost a week imo.
It is up to each person to play to their liking, there are those who prefer to create decks trying several combinations at will and those who copy decks.
From my point of view, people who copy decks ruin their surprise and experience (I am not against anyone) since creating for oneself feels better because you learn more about how to focus on that deck. I will create my own combinations and I will settle for few victories. And if I lose a lot I simply refine the deck. Besides the decks do not play alone, you need to understand how they are played depending on the archetype.
Yes, it sucks. It has ruined the “discovery” element for me, the best part of new expansions.
The solution is probably to just stop watching streams though. Streamers like Thijs have just devolved into social marketing anyway, they are so deep in Blizzard’s pocket. It is advertainment.
I want to say that I completely agree with people who said about streamers that are making terrible starting days of the expansion. It has made a lot of people into becoming short-sighted gamers.
It's okay if you wanna try out their decks, but If any of you are going to rely on what only streamers on what decks they are trying, rather than playing an actual possible good decks out there... then I'm sorry, It is a true fact that those kinds of players are heavily uninspired or unmotivated to play a game or least enjoy the game, and are definitely not a type of encouraged player.
But otherwise, you are a smart player if you believed that there is a simple and straightforward way to play Heartstone, like normally, you can either a netdecking, or inventing a good deck. so you can play and enjoy a goddamn game.
I like elementals and totems.
idk
I don't know who downplays experimentation, but those are the sort of people who should go play some other game. CCGs are all about experimentation and original decks, at least in their ideal form.
Amen to that!
As a deckbuilder, I can very proudly say I would not be where I'm at today if I didn't borrow ideas from other streamers\meta decks. While I like all my decks to be mine in the end, deckbuilding is a craft that, like all crafts, requires a significant amount of study in order to master. You wouldn't try to become an author without opening a single book, or a filmmaker without ever watching a movie. Likewise, trying to build a deck without looking at what other people before you have done is a recipe for failure.
Once I dipped into the streaming scene, I went from building original decks that could make it to Rank 10 to building original decks that could make it to Legend. I can't advocate for it enough, especially with all these new Reno archetypes coming out. No one should ever feel ashamed to ask for help. The path to greatness isn't meant to be traveled alone.
To add onto what is being said, its partly because certain cards getting nerfed or fame'd, usually because of older cards and their interactions with newer ones. That those that get nerfed or fame'd result in reduced creativity in the pool as certain cards are less valuable to run in general or that you can't run anymore unless you want to go into wild.
On one hand, you have a good point. On the other hand, Im gonna "waste" my dust because Im getting new toys and I want to play with new toys. Surely some of my decks will fail, but for me HS is not just about winning. Its about playing with new toys.
@Poghy
Yes, fair enough, I just mean that a lot of budget players end up looking at it as "waste" because they are initially under the impression that they are crafting competitive cards, and that belief is only created by an artificially memey meta in this prerelease time.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
At the event, the streamers were instructed to build decks showing off the new cards. Trust me, no one was "figuring out the new meta" at that event. It was more about just seeing how the new cards work and interact.
On the other hand, there were a lot of pros who did not attend the event but got early access anyway. These guys actually did tryhard and did start the meta-solving process. They played a few meme decks, too, but not many.
The company line is that they had to give all the pros equal access so no one could claim unfair disadvantage in the upcoming tournaments, but it seems to me, the way around that problem would be to NOT invite any streamers who are also pros, and force everyone at the event to play recipe decks ONLY.
So it's a middle ground. The intent was mostly harmless, but Blizzard could have handled it a LOT better. As usual.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I never get more spam emotes than when I'm playing a meme deck against a Tier 1 cookie cutter.
Remember what happened when Dr Frankenstein experimented?